Notes from the Editor....

Burt Foster said:
The statement that "It is extremely difficult to accept what is written by 'wannabe authorities', who don't have a clue regarding the topic..." reminds me of the British reaction to our "grand experiment" in freedom over on this side of the pond. A man with no formal schooling but with a drive and the freedom to pursue his dreams could succeed. Our imperial cousins hated the notion of such a person being granted equality with the nobles, but it is that freedom that made and makes this country great. No one can tell you that you are a "wannabe." You get to prove that for yourself.
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Hey .... leave us out of it! This is a civil conflict thats a brewin':D

Signed,

Your Imperial Cousin (twice removed on my fathers side)!:D
 
Burt Foster said:
This whole discussion is about one thing. Freedom. Now freedom is a scary thing. Freedom to carry a gun means that your crazy neighbor may get to. Freedom to pursue a new enterprise means you could lose everything. Freedom to speak your mind means you could offend someone. But it is that freedom that makes this country great.

The statement that "It is extremely difficult to accept what is written by 'wannabe authorities', who don't have a clue regarding the topic..." reminds me of the British reaction to our "grand experiment" in freedom over on this side of the pond. A man with no formal schooling but with a drive and the freedom to pursue his dreams could succeed. Our imperial cousins hated the notion of such a person being granted equality with the nobles, but it is that freedom that made and makes this country great. No one can tell you that you are a "wannabe." You get to prove that for yourself.

When I was just getting into knifemaking, I had a maker tell me to stop coming around because, "He was tired of wannabe knifemakers coming around and asking questions." Now 17 years later, I don't know it all, but I had the freedom to prove that I am more than a wannabe.

In the same way, the internet forums are free. They are free of restrictions (except way out on the edges) and this allows everyone to participate freely. Sure, there's junk. But how is that any different from any print publication? I see stuff written in magazines, newspapers and books all the time that I know for a fact to be false, or at least highly misleading. That's what discernment is for. No one is obligated to believe what they read here. To the statement, "...sort through the garbage to reach the substance..." I respond by saying "welcome to the real world." As a college professor, I'm sure Carolyn would encourage her students to not believe everything they heard, everything they read, or even things they saw, unless they could be verified to be true.
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Well put, sir. The thing about not only knife forums, but the internet in general is that you must do your own filtering. Essentially, you are your own "editor" Of course there is going to be some craziness, but the good part is that you have pretty much unfettered opportunity to find things out, including some things that maybe the editors, writers, etc in the traditional media, knife magazines or otherwise, either don't think is all that important or just neglect to explore.
The "wannabe authorities" comment is interesting in that anyone who is willing to drop a goodly amount of money on custom knives should probably be given a listen occasionally regardless of their perceived "expertise" on the subject. This is ultimately a customer driven business and anyone who is trying to do the "art for arts sake" bit right out of the box in the knifemaking world should probably have a day job and a LOT of storage space for whatever they make early on...lol.
 
Burt Foster said:
When I was just getting into knifemaking, I had a maker tell me to stop coming around because, "He was tired of wannabe knifemakers coming around and asking questions." Now 17 years later, I don't know it all, but I had the freedom to prove that I am more than a wannabe.
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Burt,

You are much, much more than a wannabe. You are, regardless of what the Mrs. says, a very funny individual, and a gifted writer in your own right. If you could just give up your obsession with big butts, you might just be one of the best fixed blade knifemakers on the planet.;)

It is about freedom, and if B.R. has the freedom to call for abolishment of online forums, and Ms. Hughes has the freedom to call some/all of us "wannabe" authorities, it seems fair that we drag this up on the "free" BladeForums for discussion, right?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The slam about the fourms is only one incident. Interest and creativity have been denegrated for at least 20 years, one maker, one idea, one fan at a time. Most have remained silent, and the ABS as an organization has lost.

This time they chose the wrong dragon to fight for this dragon is vocal and cannot be ignored or silenced.

The organization is much more than the board, many individuals remain loyal to the dream. The forged blade has been around long before the ABS and will be known long after its passing.

I believe it was Jefferson who said "Support your country always, and your government when it deserves it".
 
Just an observation, BR Hughes I've only had one conversation with, who was cordial. He is a knife writer. And, Mrs. Hughes, I do not know her. What are their roles in the ABS? .. seems to strike me as odd that it isn't someone who is actively a knifemaker, running the organization, or in leadership positions. Unless I'm unaware. Leadership roles, are they given on the basis of support to the organization, as some awards are presented for people who give major financial support?

I admit I have no idea how the organization is run, who decides who is elected, the process of any of it. Long-standing members and alliances dictate control of the organization? (true, or false?)

My former comments about an isolated incident were perhaps unwelcome and provoked criticism, these were not meant as an attack on the person that made the statements, just an illustration I meant to use. People who represent, carry the responsibility on their shoulder of what image they present. I didn't make false statements, or heresay, but I will not drag someone's name through the mud here. Even if they deserve it.
David
 
Great post Burt. Well said.

Gary
 
Guys,

You are getting your shorts in a wad for no reason.

The Two Main US Based Knife Organizations care absolutely nothing about you or your opinions.

Consequently, take the organizations out of the equation.

Support the makers who support the collectors.

The ABS Web Site has nothing on it about the Blade Show, The Banquet, who received their MS and JS Ratings, nor anything about the award winners. You would think they would at least list the Moran Award Winner.

The good news is that ABS Long Sleve Shirts are now on sale for $20!

WWG
Diving the "Wall" tomorrow!
 
WWG, all that information is available in the journal that is provided to members. The website is being revamped, so maybe in the future updates will be done in a regular and timely manner.

Anyway, I don't think the problem being discussed here is an ABS problem. I think it is a problem that certain people that happen to be members of the ABS have. I'm sure there are people outside the ABS that share their views on knife forums.
 
Keith,

All that information is in Blade Magazine as well.

You missed the point.

Some one took the time to update in the "Events" area that the shirts were for sale.

However, no one took the time to write a word about what happened with the ABS and their Membership.

As for the journal it is iffy at best. I was a member and an advertiser in three different magazines. I never received one of them...NEVER.

Question Keith, if you don't subscribe to the magazine and missed the copy of Blade. How would you know what happened. Most people would go to the ABS web site.

Keith if you only partly fix the problem...the problem is only partly fixed. WHich means you still have a problem.

We are not talking rocket science here.

Keith the defense you offer is weak. But your type of defense is exactly why nothing is changing. People make excuses and/or don't care (back to my previous post).

Keith if you were a business and had a web site, how long would it take you to post information about the show, the board meeting and which members were giving which stamps and won which awards. And any other news?

A week, two weeks, a month? We are rapidly approaching 4 months.

I suspect there is not a business owner in Canada that would allow this to happen.

I know the ABS is not a business. Ok compare it to the Guild. Their show was almost 2 months later, they had all their information up and posted in less than a month.

The Guild understands that they stepped on it and are trying to make things right. Asking former members to come back, eliminating "controlling" rules and updating their web site regularly.

Keith, Im glad you are happy with the pace at which the ABS is moving.

This is why you are a member and I am not.

Like I said, my advice is to support the makers not the organization. Which is why this year no one in the world has profiled more ABS makers in print than I have.

Love the knives and the makers....just cannot figure out the ABS organization.

WWG
 
I agree we are all getting our selves all worked up over something that we shouldnt....
Sure I dont agree with what was said,but if you think about it for awhile maybe we can see a point....
I am not a writer or editor and have never tried to be.But when you look at the forums from their perspective you might agree with some of wht was said.I dont think Br and his wife dislike the exchanging of thoughts and ideas,heck that was what Br started out doing by saving the art of the forged blade all those years ago with Bill and the others.I think the comments made were more towards guys like me who cannot put thoughts down on paper and have them make sense.I believe that a writer has to have a idea then write a story then have it proof read for grammer and punctuation,then have it edited for content to make sure it conveys the message being said and doesnt just sound like a babbling fool (as sound like all the time) wrote some words on thoughts that doesnt mean anything to the story or article...I think Br just doesnt want to see the art of writing a good story lost to the modern way of saying what you want when you want without proper grammer and punctuation.I know my old English teacher would flunk my writing skills on here....
Just some babbling thoughts,
Bruce
 
Bruce Evans said:
I agree we are all getting our selves all worked up over something that we shouldnt....
Sure I dont agree with what was said,but if you think about it for awhile maybe we can see a point....
I am not a writer or editor and have never tried to be.But when you look at the forums from their perspective you might agree with some of wht was said.I dont think Br and his wife dislike the exchanging of thoughts and ideas,heck that was what Br started out doing by saving the art of the forged blade all those years ago with Bill and the others.I think the comments made were more towards guys like me who cannot put thoughts down on paper and have them make sense.I believe that a writer has to have a idea then write a story then have it proof read for grammer and punctuation,then have it edited for content to make sure it conveys the message being said and doesnt just sound like a babbling fool (as sound like all the time) wrote some words on thoughts that doesnt mean anything to the story or article...I think Br just doesnt want to see the art of writing a good story lost to the modern way of saying what you want when you want without proper grammer and punctuation.I know my old English teacher would flunk my writing skills on here....
Just some babbling thoughts,
Bruce
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I kind of thought you had it right the first time, Bruce.

We are a virtual community here on the forums, with a multiplicity of views and a varying degree of expertise. As with any group, you will find good and bad. With the forums, as many have pointed out, the bad get called out pretty darned quick.

If I or anyone else were to publish an article as categorically disparaging and dismissive of the ABS as Carolyn's piece was of the forums, do you think that she and B.R. would view it as "much ado about nothing"? I don't. I was not present for B.R.'s comments at the ABS banquet, so I can't really speak to that. But I did read Carolyn's piece - which I found both insulting and grossly unfair. I am not "getting my shorts in a wad" over it, but I am calling it like I see it.


Roger
 
I am not trying to say it shouldnt be addressed and just blow it off,I was just trying to think of why they would say something like that when they have spent years trying to promote the knowledge and see it get passed on....At least here on the forums a nobody like me does have a presence in the knife community that he wouldnt have if he waited to be found for a mag article,heck knife shows are expensive to set up at plus unless you have a well known name you will more than likely be put on a waiting list (for the big shows)I know I was and have been for years,only been called once off a waiting list in all these years,and to afford all the symposiums is not always easy to do either,Kids come first with what money we have.So the internet is my only real way of staying in touch...
just some More babbling from a English class flunky LOL
 
Bruce Evans said:
I agree we are all getting our selves all worked up over something that we shouldnt....
Sure I dont agree with what was said,but if you think about it for awhile maybe we can see a point....
I am not a writer or editor and have never tried to be.But when you look at the forums from their perspective you might agree with some of wht was said.I dont think Br and his wife dislike the exchanging of thoughts and ideas,heck that was what Br started out doing by saving the art of the forged blade all those years ago with Bill and the others.I think the comments made were more towards guys like me who cannot put thoughts down on paper and have them make sense.I believe that a writer has to have a idea then write a story then have it proof read for grammer and punctuation,then have it edited for content to make sure it conveys the message being said and doesnt just sound like a babbling fool (as sound like all the time) wrote some words on thoughts that doesnt mean anything to the story or article...I think Br just doesnt want to see the art of writing a good story lost to the modern way of saying what you want when you want without proper grammer and punctuation.I know my old English teacher would flunk my writing skills on here....
Just some babbling thoughts,
Bruce
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Bruce, I don't have a problem with your writing as you make very good points and add to this forum. I also agreed more with the post you "edited away" than the above.

This forum represents a wide array of writing skills from borderline professional from guys like Roger, Burt Foster, Peter, STeven to name a few to some that are very hard at times to figure out what point they are attempting to make.

But IMO, a person's writing skills and/or education should not necessarily diminish the value of their views, opinions or what they have say.
It would be a mistake for anyone to degrade the discussions or content on this or any other forum based solely on member's writing skills.

I will be the first to admit that I'm lacking in writing skills and at times have caught opposition, because I have come off in making a point, different than I actually attended it.
Sometimes, I find myself analyzing some post, wondering if the author really meant to convey those thoughts or something different.
 
Bruce, don’t feel bad about the way you get your thoughts into words; both Roger and Kevin expressed my thoughts better than I could have. Thanks guys.

Roger said, “I am fairly confident that if I or anyone else were to publish an article as categorically disparaging and dismissive of the ABS as Carolyn's piece was of the forums, do you think that she and B.R. would view it as "much ado about nothing"? I don't. I was not present for B.R.'s comments at the ABS banquet, so I can't really speak to that. But I did read Carolyn's piece - which I found both insulting and grossly unfair. I am not "getting my shorts in a wad" over it, but I am calling it like I see it.”

Kevin said, “….a person's writing skills and/or education should not necessarily diminish the value of their views, opinions or what they have say.
It would be a mistake for anyone to degrade the discussions or content on this or any other forum based solely on member's writing skills.”

Bill
 
Bruce you have been a long-time and valued contributor to the forums. You needn't apologize for your writing skills or anything else. As I said earlier in this thread - I am particularly grateful for the contributions of makers such as yourself because I have learned much from them. I'd take a truckload full of more "nobodys" like you. :)

Roger
 
As this thread addresses people's opinions as to whether forums provide any worthwhile purpose, I would just like to add that the Breast Cancer Research Foundation will be receiving a nice contribution as the result of this forum's generosity.

I'm pretty new to forums, so I don't know how frequently forums in general take on worthwhile projects such as the Blade Forums Bowie Charity.

Even though we set-up modestly at several knife shows and sold some tickets, the VAST Majority of ticket sales and donations were generated by members and participants right here on this forum.
 
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