Nutnfancy makes video supporting fake Chinese XM18

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Dan57 said:
Somebody answer me this: how are these counterfeiters harming anybody? I don't support them, but I've never understood how people can get so worked up over them, either. Judging by the aftermarket prices, the demand for genuine Hinderer knives won't be going away anytime soon. I doubt these counterfeits have affected his business much, if at all.
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If you came up with an idea or creation that allowed you to make a decent living, and some uncreative thief came along, stole your idea / creation, and started making money off of it; that honestly wouldn't bother you?

Spending countless hours or months (if not years) developing, perfecting it. Charging a reasonable price for your it. And then some lazy jack-ass who spent zero dollars and zero time on R&D decided to make money off of YOUR hard work, that wouldn't bother you? Hell, if it wasn't taking place in China, Rick could sue and easily win. Easily get a cease & desist applied to those lazy scumbags.
 
Maddogg774 said:
Jaxx, what i meant by that is should some one never subjectively review a knockoff? Not that is what he does, justa general question.
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Maddogg, I should add that I wasn't jumping on you specifically, but ya know how supply and demand works. If those knockoffs are gone tomorrow, 3x as many will be here the day after, if ya know what I mean.

As for reviewing a blatant counterfeit...no, they (the fakes) shouldn't get the coverage. They shouldn't exist, they are unlicensed, the original maker doesn't see a penny of what they bring in to the copier, and therefor they don't deserve it, IMO. If they are reviewed, then the reviewer ought to make it very clear that it is a fake, and therefor it is IP theft, and that one should not condone it.

Where's the pride in American made, or at least American companies?? I have a ZT 0561, bought it new at roughly half the price of a Hinderer mid-tech and it's a great knife. Yes, I prefer my Hinderer's but the 0561 is dang sweet for a little over $200. ZT makes 'em with all permissions obtained, Rick gets or got a piece of the action on sales, everyone's happy. Why go counterfeit???
 
To clarify, it's not readily apparent that any IP is actually been stolen. IP cannot be stolen unless there is actual legal IP to begin with. On knives, this usually would be in the form of a patent, though it's possible for a trademark on a knife to be an example of stolen IP.

If there are no patents covering aspects of the copy, then no IP has been stolen.

What makes one of the knives possibly a counterfeit is the "Hinderer" etched on the handle, which may indicate falsely that it is a real item. The design of the knife is immaterial. The use of the name would be the part that makes it quite possibly counterfeit, and would do so regardless of the design.
 
Monocrom said:
If you came up with an idea or creation that allowed you to make a decent living, and some uncreative thief came along, stole your idea / creation, and started making money off of it; that honestly wouldn't bother you?

Spending countless hours or months (if not years) developing, perfecting it. Charging a reasonable price for your it. And then some lazy jack-ass who spent zero dollars and zero time on R&D decided to make money off of YOUR hard work, that wouldn't bother you? Hell, if it wasn't taking place in China, Rick could sue and easily win. Easily get a cease & desist applied to those lazy scumbags.
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Not to mention the fact that many of these counterfeits wind up being sold on the secondary market to unsuspecting buyers.
 
He says in the video description he is not condoning the stealing of Rick's design. He is just their to review the knife for consumers. Yeah i would be mad if someone cloned my work but I don't think Nutn is doing anything wrong.
 
He may "ignore the politics of it", but he's endorsing the criminality of it.

Nut, you seriously dropped the ball here.
 
I wish i could have a real Rick Hinderer but from now i will be satisfied with a licenced copy with a real ZT 0560 i could afford. Its inacceptable to put down to this level of stealing and copying or approve or support them.
 
Galeocerdoshark said:
You don't buy Chinese "because they are all thieves"? Everything a random Chinese person does is wrong then? What the hell man :-)
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Yes you're right not all Chinese people are thieves, but I know that SOME of Chinese produced stuff isn't an original idea, or they cut corners, and have terrible quality control. And the best way for me not to unknowingly support either wrong doings is to not buy it...period. A small few ruin it for the rest IMHO. Please understand I'm not trying to be racist, and that these are my opinions
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Ouch, definitely not a good idea, Nutn.


I still love the dude, flaws and all, but sheesh. . . definitely not tactful, but at least it's ideologically consistent I reckon.
 
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I love how he still wrist flicks the 0561 which has bearings:rolleyes: Looks like he's having a seizure whenever he opens a knife.
 
Monocrom said:
If you came up with an idea or creation that allowed you to make a decent living, and some uncreative thief came along, stole your idea / creation, and started making money off of it; that honestly wouldn't bother you?

Spending countless hours or months (if not years) developing, perfecting it. Charging a reasonable price for your it. And then some lazy jack-ass who spent zero dollars and zero time on R&D decided to make money off of YOUR hard work, that wouldn't bother you? Hell, if it wasn't taking place in China, Rick could sue and easily win. Easily get a cease & desist applied to those lazy scumbags.
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I would be mildly annoyed, yes. But as long as the counterfeiters weren't actively making me lose money, (and they wouldn't be,) then I see no reason why I would feel anything more.
Chinese counterfeits of American, Japanese, Taiwanese, and even other Chinese products have been around forever. Wristwatches, electronics, pirated movies, you name it. Most other industries have just accepted it and moved on, as there's no way to stop the counterfeiting, and it's a waste of energy to become worked up about it. Hell, counterfeit Rolexes are about ten times more common than real ones, and you don't see watch enthusiasts up in arms. If anything, the huge amount of counterfeits has helped spread the brand name, and increase sales of the real thing.
 
It's one thing to model a knife after someone else's design (eg. Sanrenmu 710 vs. Sebenza)... Nobody is going to mistake a 710 for a Sebenza. It shares a similar shape, but they are different sizes, have significant aesthetic differences, and the 710 has the Sanrenmu brand and logo printed on it. That's the grey area where the manufacturer can say it's an homage to the original design.

These are very different. They copy everything, down to printing the Hinderer name on the locking scale. That's not a homage. That's a straight-up counterfeit. That's just wrong any way you look at it. No grey area there.

As for the ignorant statements like:
Nutnfancy (via YouTube) said:
US manufacturers should work to deliver maximum value in their US produced options to discourage buyers to seek and find knives just like these
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Not having to invest in things like R&D must do wonders for the bottom line. There is significant time and cost involved in designing, testing, refining, and repeating that process until you have a workable product. Then there's establishing the name/brand (marketing, reputation). If you skip all that and just steal the design and branding, all you're left with is the cost of raw materials and assembly/labor, which only reflect a fraction of what goes into the cost of producing a product.
 
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