Nutnfancy makes video supporting fake Chinese XM18

[mcrow]

The thing that gets me the most out of this video is that he's trying to say that the ZT is basically over priced compared to the competition and that these Chinese fakes are just about as good. Then he says, no 3D, cheaper steel...ect...........all I could do is laugh. So he'd telling me that the ZT has basically top of the line everything (for a production knife) and the fake has mid level materials at best and yet they are the same quality? Not to mention the fit and finish is nowhere near the same.

 

[Nuke]

I also do not have a problem with a company making a knife similar to a popular design as long as they put there own makers mark on the knife and do not try to pass it off as the original product. The buyer knows what they are getting and if they are willing to settle for the lower quality or if that is all they can afford so what. They would not be purchasing the authentic product anyway. When a company creates a knockoff and takes every step possible to pass it off as the original they cross the line and should be made to pay for their thievery.

If you can hear a great rumbling in the distance, don't worry, it's just the tidal wave of butthurt that's going to wash over the TEE ENN PEE-er fanbase when they watch this video.

Knife nuts might want to stock up on this before watching / venturing into the comments on that youtube video:

On one hand, I don't really care what other people do with their money. It's not my place to impose some kind of cheap morality lesson on someone else for buying chinese junk. Furthermore, I don't really care when, say, Sanrenmu makes a design suspiciously similar to a small sebenza, but puts their own name on it and is straightforward about the product they're selling.

On the other hand, I don't really like to see people ripping off a design and trying to pass it off as the genuine article, which the higher-end knockoff in his video is blatantly doing. That's a pretty big scumbag move on the maker's part.

 

[ishiyumisan]

Original design, regardless of origin = good
Copied design, regardless of origin = theft

That's about as simple as I can make it.

I own Chinese, American, European, Japanese.....etc, Who or What is behind those knives, do not bother Me at all.

I use knives or play with them, Copied Right Design ain't my business, period!

Ethical management, does not make mine stomach full neither.

 

[Maprik]

NutnFancy is right. The type of people who buy Hinderer's would never buy a chinese knock off. Let him and his minions buy all the chinese copies they want. China has been pumping out fake Rolex's for decades and I don't think Rolex has lost a single $ from a customer who decided to buy a fake instead. And comparing the ZT561 to an XM? In terms of quality, fit and finish, ergonomics and feel - it's like comparing a Honda Accord to a Bentley. Both are well made but the difference is in the details. When he said the ZT561 was overpriced and a HIGH END knife I laughed out loud... By all means, buy an Inron if you want a nice cheap knife that looks kinda cool. But don't fool yourself for a second that it's anything like a genuine XM.

 

[JuJu-]

Man, out of popcorn again, I'll be right back!

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

Nutn would endorse a turd ad long as it had jimping and came in under 4 ounces.

That was sweet. I wished I knew how....and I'd draw up a nice size turd with a couple full kernels of corn protruding out....with some killer - and I do mean killer over the top jimping laying on a scale engraved with the Nut's sig with it reading under the big 4oz.

 

[cncpro11]

My favorite part in the video is when he complains about the sticky lock bar and therefore low quality of the ZT after whipping it open with so much force.
What an epic fail.

 

[Dorito Monk]

Dorito, the 710 was based on the earlier sebenza. The rule says," ...based upon the designs of the original owner.android the materials make a difference? The chp and the my803 which was in the vid were not made of the same materials as the ZT or hinderer, does that make them not knockoffs?

That's cute. Picking one tiny fragment of a run-on sentence out of my post and talking exclusively about that, then acting like it refutes anything I said.

"Wait but the materials doesn't mean it's not a knockoff"

Yeah, sure, a knife can be made from different materials than the original and still be a knockoff. Everything I said still stands. A SRM 710 isn't a 'fake' because it doesn't claim to be the real thing in any way. Something can't be a forgery / fake / counterfeit if it is in no way attempting to be pawned off as the real thing (ie: if there's no deceit involved whatsoever). Did they rip off the design? Sure, yeah, and maybe that's something that makes you uncomfortable, but that's a separate issue from it being a 'counterfeit'. It does looks a lot like a Small Seb. 21, but that doesn't make it a 'Fake Sebenza'.

Jesus, if the 'no-counterfeits' rule on this forum extended to companies like SRM for making knives like the 710, it would have to extend to Cold Steal (for ripping off countless designs over the years), SOG (who aren't even the original makers of the 'SOG Bowie' pattern, which is the mainstay of their fixed blade lineup)... If you banned every knife that was 'based on an original design', you will end up banning literally every knife in existence.

 

[sebaldus]

Nutnfancy is wrong to dodge the whole political issue of these knives. Obviously, from what we've read here, its an extremely political issue. I agree, he can't simply say that he doesn't want to talk about it, and all is forgiven.

BUT. He does have a few valid points. He explicitly says that he is not responsible for the protection of the US knife industry. This is true. Its not his job. As a gear reviewer he is (as he says) a consumer advocate. And therefore, his position is to investigate what is available to us consumers.

He also says that this phenomenon can't be ignored. I tend to agree. When you have a flood of knock off knives coming from overseas (or anywhere really) it indicates that there is a demand for them. Authentic Hinderer knives are sold at inflated prices. Regardless if people believe that they're "worth every penny" they're not. At $800, they are simply prohibitively expensive for the people that could use them. It's an ingenious design and a beautiful knife. But the craftsmanship and materials (especially in the 3rd and 4th gen xm-18's) simply does not value $800.

Therefore, it remains that the people who buy the knock offs would have never purchased an authentic xm-18 in the first place. So Rick isn't losing any money.

That is not to say that I condone IP theft. I certainly don't. But as nutnfancy said, it is certainly an interesting phenomenon.

Well said. This is the message I took away from the video.

 

[Maddogg774]

So then dorito is the my803 a knock off? Anybody?

 

[Comeuppance]

It would seem that people are making a huge leap here. I'd like to state that I loathe Nutnfancy - I find his reviews far too long, I think his style is annoying, and his catchphrase fixation extremely tedious.

HOWEVER

He isn't "supporting" them at all. Acknowledging the existence of something and appraising the quality ≠ support. I flipped through the video, and, as far as I can tell, he just makes direct quality comparisons and discusses value.
Leave your flamethrowers at home.

 

[mcrow]

It would seem that people are making a huge leap here. I'd like to state that I loathe Nutnfancy - I find his reviews far too long, I think his style is annoying, and his catchphrase fixation extremely tedious.

HOWEVER

He isn't "supporting" them at all. Acknowledging the existence of something and appraising the quality ≠ support. I flipped through the video, and, as far as I can tell, he just makes direct quality comparisons and discusses value.
Leave your flamethrowers at home.

That's the whole problem though. The only video that should be done with the knock-offs in it is one to identify them from the the real thing. That is what a consumer advocate should be doing. He doesn't need to review the knock-offs and judge quality...ect. People are going to find and buy knock-offs without his help, on purpose. A consumer advocate would make sure that the unknowing consumer didn't buy something off the internet that looks like something it's not.

 

[sticktodrum]

Of course he's supporting them. He knows his impact, he knows (and brags openly) about how many knives he sells. He sings the praises of these knives for most of the video, and clearly purchased some of his own. You can't reasonably think that he figured no one would buy them now that he posted this glaring review explaining how fantastic they are. You must have flipped over most of the video if you didn't catch how much positivity he was expressing towards the knock-offs.

I'll be shocked if he shows his face at any major knife show again. I'll bet the folks at Kershaw/ZT and likely RH himself would tell him where to stick those knock-offs if he did.

 

[cncpro11]

It would seem that people are making a huge leap here. I'd like to state that I loathe Nutnfancy - I find his reviews far too long, I think his style is annoying, and his catchphrase fixation extremely tedious.

HOWEVER

He isn't "supporting" them at all. Acknowledging the existence of something and appraising the quality ≠ support. I flipped through the video, and, as far as I can tell, he just makes direct quality comparisons and discusses value.
Leave your flamethrowers at home.

Did he post a link so you can buy direct from china and cut out the middle man? Because that is exactly what he said he was going to do at the beginning of the video.
If so then he is supporting theft.
The knives are being sold as Hinderer's on the website.
There are also CRK sebenzas with his initials, Idaho made, and crk boxes.

That is absolute theft and he is supporting it by linking to the site and telling his viewers to go there.

 

[mcrow]

Of course he's supporting them. He knows his impact, he knows (and brags openly) about how many knives he sells. He sings the praises of these knives for most of the video, and clearly purchased some of his own. You can't reasonably think that he figured no one would buy them now that he posted this glaring review explaining how fantastic they are. You must have flipped over most of the video if you didn't catch how much positivity he was expressing towards the knock-offs.

I'll be shocked if he shows his face at any major knife show again. I'll bet the folks at Kershaw/ZT and likely RH himself would tell him where to stick those knock-offs if he did.

I don't know if any of the knife makers supply him with knives for review or if he buys all of them but if the knife makers are sending him knives for review I hope they see this and stop doing it.

 

[Dorito Monk]

So then dorito is the my803 a knock off? Anybody?

Here's a better (you know, on-topic ) Question: Is the Inron a fake Hinderer? No, it's categorically not. There's absolutely no attempt to pass it off as a Hinderer. Is the other Chinderer in the video a fake? Yes, yes it is.

Even Better Question: Who gives a fiddler's fart about the Inron when there's a much bigger and more blatantly scumbaggy issue at hand (ie: outright, full-on counterfeit attempt-to-dupe-the-public Hinderer being passed off as the real thing)?

 

[Bladenoobie1]

Original design, regardless of origin = good
Copied design, regardless of origin = theft

That's about as simple as I can make it.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I might have to put that in my sig later. I still find it more than unfortunate that people will still judge a product based off where its made, rather than the actual product itself.

 

[Comeuppance]

That's the whole problem though. The only video that should be done with the knock-offs in it is one to identify them from the the real thing. That is what a consumer advocate should be doing. He doesn't need to review the knock-offs and judge quality...ect. People are going to find and buy knock-offs without his help, on purpose. A consumer advocate would make sure that the unknowing consumer didn't buy something off the internet that looks like something it's not.

...And he does indeed identify them as imitations and points out quality differences.

So many people are so angry that he talked about a knife. He didn't say "get this instead of a Hinderer", "this is a hinderer", or "go here and buy these instead of Hinderers". He discussed the knives, the obvious similarities, the quality differences, and his experiences with them. That is indeed what a consumer advocate would do.

What you're doing is confusing a "consumer" advocate with an "intellectual rights" advocate.
Few, if any, would be fool enough to state that it's a good thing that these knife manufacturers purport to be the genuine article. He is not one of those few.

 

[flatblackcapo]

If this video upsets you and you think it is wrong for nuttnfancy to advertise for counterfeiters, go to youtube and flag/report the video as infringment of Rick Hinderer's design. Also please post a comment telling the viewers the truth about these counterfeit knives.

 

[Maddogg774]

So a clarification of terms: knockoff; homage. The CHP is a fake. We got that. My problem lies with those knives the are of the same general design(homage?) but are obviously not trying to be passed off as that knife. Those I call knock-offs. How this is on topic Dorito is that he said in the vid that you can't beat the My803 for the money. He did endorse it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, your saying if their not trying to pass it off as a Hinderer or CRK it's ok?