Opinions of this ?

Mrs Pitdog, of course your opinion matters. It was a messy kill and you may be right about those hunters, I don't know. Most all hunters I know strive for a quick one-shot kill, but it doesn't always go that way even with expert marksmen.

I agree with your posts Horn Dog, not Ideal by any means but things aren't always pretty. If I didn't hunt my self I would swear that those people couldn't shoot were unprepared etc. which they might have been but even a squirrel shot between the eyes with a 22 can live ( or more like thrash around) that long not normally but it does happen. Comparing animals to humans doesn't work for me, any game animal deserve respect but comparing and animals life to a humans...
 
pitdog, you know I love your nature pictures and I share your love of the outdoors and respect for life, but I suspect that you are not a hunter. Neither am I much of one anymore, but if I must kill, I can and will. Those men may seem like yahoos to you, but chances are they are family men and not hoodlums or killers of humans. They were not killing people. But there are times when even that may be necessary.

hey whoa now whoa! us Hoodlums are fine stand up people with a great love for the outdoors, survival etc.. :grumpy::D
 
Legal yes. Unfortunatly these incompetent jacka**es niether have the respect or skill to competently harvest their game. I'm a hunter and we all not every kill is a one shot one kill situation. We would all like it to be but many times its not. That said...these morons couldn't drop a slow moving target down a road at what looks to be less than sixty yards. Hunting isn't always just the killing. Among many things a true hunter must have respect for his game. Hunting has turned into a thrill sport. For those of us who have not gone the way of treating hunting as a game this sort of thing is disgusting.
 
Is that real? I can't believe that. Isn't harming animals the first step to a serial killer. That guy and his buddy are messed up. I hate to wish bad things on them but karma is a beotch so I won't have to.

On a side note, I had always heard bear like most carnivoirs are "game-y", learn something new everyday.



Here is what the Marines had to say.



The Marines are asking for the public's comments on this case:
http://www.mcbh.usmc.mil/pao/press/MCBH_Statement_5Mar08.htm

SEND COMMENTS VIA EMAIL TO:

mcbh.pao.fct@nmci.usmc.mil


--
MCBH Statement


Public Affairs Office
Marine Corps Base Hawaii
For additional information contact: mcbh.pao.fct@nmci.usmc.mil




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 5, 2008

Marine Corps Base Hawaii statement of Internet video of Marine with puppy

The video images depicting a United States Marine abusing a puppy are disturbing and contrary to the high standards we expect of every Marine.

This matter is currently under investigation to confirm the authenticity of the video and the persons responsible for the video. Upon completion of the investigation, it will be reviewed by each Marine’s commander who will determine the appropriate action to take in each case.

In the event that any Marine is charged with an offense, he will be afforded the constitutional and due process protections guaranteed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

If you would like to leave a comment for Marine Corps Base Hawaii please click on the link provided below. Your statement will be complied in a database for use regarding this situation.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEND COMMENTS VIA EMAIL TO:

mcbh.pao.fct@nmci.usmc.mil
 
A bad shot is a bad shot, but it happens to even the most seasoned shooters. I do not like to see any animal suffer, but it does happen. I don't particularly like the good ol' boy attitude at taking the life. It's always been a somber and humble time for me. A time to give thanks. Not only to GOD, but the animal as well.
 
Hope the "Soldier" who did that died a horrible death - Mrs Pit.

I agree with Mrs Pit! I have hunted , I am not afraid to kill and eat what I kill. Its the lossers that trophy hunt like that video that need to spend some time running from others shootin at them who cant shoot. I have seen animals as well as humans shot dead on the spot with one shot !
 
A man is ethical only when life, as such, is sacred to him, that of plants and animals as well as that of his fellowman, and when he devotes himself helpfully to all life that is in need of help.
Albert Schweitzer

The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.
Charles Darwin

Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.
Albert Schweitzer, The Philosophy of Civilization

Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they are only animals.
Theodor Adorno (1903-1969), German Marxist philosopher, sociologist, and musicologist

I believe animals should be respected as citizens of this earth. They should have the right to their own freedom, their own families, and their own life.
John Feldmann, Goldfinger

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
Isaac Bashevis Singer

It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.
Mark Twain

Kindness and compassion towards all living beings is a mark of a civilized society. �Racism, economic deprival, dog fighting and cock fighting, bullfighting and rodeos are all cut from the same defective fabric: violence. Only when we have become nonviolent towards all life will we have learned to live well ourselves.
Cesar Chavez

There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties... The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery.
-- Charles Darwin (1809-1882)

"If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."
-- Albert Einstein

I'm off to bed now !!!
 
Alright everyone, lets just have a look at reality here. I'm not a hunter myself, mainly because I wasn't brought up in a family that hunted. Hunting is something that humans have done for thousands of years, and without it our species would not have survived. Using the argument that we don't "need" to hunt now because of our level of civilization is just pulling the wool over your own eyes. Is an animal that has been kept in a cage thats not even large enough to turn around in any less of an animal compared to one that has lived wild? If the answer is no, then I would feel much better about killing a wild animal that has had a chance to live properly rather than having a calf killed that has only known a cage for its entire life. Open your eyes and lets not be so naive about life, shall we? :jerkit:

Whether or not the bear kill was a good one is beyond me as I am not a hunter. Hearing people trash talk hunting, though, revves me up, as without the act of hunting, that person would not be around to complain.

As far as causing pain goes, there are very few ways to kill a living thing without causing pain (obviously without using chemicals, etc..), so pain can be expected when aiming to kill a living creature.

And as far as living creatures being killed goes, there's a quote I came across some time ago that I have reminded myself of in times of stress or fear. Unfortunately I don't know who first said it, but I think it hits home in this argument.

"Dying is an inherant risk of living. Accepting or rejecting that risk is not an option."
 
Hi Guys (and Gal, if Mrs. Pitdog is reading this). I do not know any of the parties involved in this video, but the responses it has generated compels me to address this.

It appears that the hunters were inexperienced and relying on the guide for direction. That they were grouped up and on a road when they encountered the bear suggests they were travelling to or from their stands, and were perhaps not as mentally prepared as they should have been.

The first shot dropped the bear in its tracks, which is what you are always hoping for. (Why two shots in quick succession rang out is a mystery.) Because all the hunters were bunched up, there was a lot of celebratory whoopin it up when they saw it go down. Clearly, this was premature. The guide should have silenced them and directed the hunter to concentrate on his quarry to determine if a followup shot was necessary.

It is usually a bad idea to close in too much on a wounded bear, but it appears that this group could have advanced a ways if necessary to secure a clean death. Although several shots were taken at the bear while on the road, it was still apparently able to crawl off and had to be retrieved. (No, the bear was not in a trap. The rope clearly was not on its leg in the early footage. It was simply a drag rope to haul it back to the road.) Like many of you, I'd like to know where the various shots hit, and exactly how many of these guys were shooting at that bear.

As a bowhunter, the potential for a "less than perfect" shot is constantly there. Our discipline is that even if we think we made a lethal shot, as long as the animal is standing, if we can get another arrow into him to speed up the process, we will. If the animal bolts, we give it time to quiet down and die. The last thing we want to do is to start whooping and jumping around, causing the animal to run much, much farther.

For those of you nonhunters who are asserting that anything less than a one shot instant death is inhumane and demonstrates ineptitude or cruelty, all I can say is that you are laboring under a profound misunderstanding about hunting - by man or any other predator. For those of you self-identified hunters professing their god-like proficiency at always making one-shot kills, I hope you have a plan for when a follow-up shot is necessary.

-- FLIX
 
Yeah you can eat bear but you usually have to mix it with another meat and make sausage for example, they do taste pretty good.
!

I've eaten more than a few very good bear roasts.

That said, I'm not impressed with this particular hunt.
 
Pitdog, this is fun, but I fear this is destined for W&C. :) This is a wonderful collection of some of the most ridiculous statements regarding animals and humans ever uttered.

A man is ethical only when life, as such, is sacred to him, that of plants and animals as well as that of his fellowman, and when he devotes himself helpfully to all life that is in need of help.
Albert Schweitzer To acknowledge that life is valuable does not require the mindless assertion that all life is therefore equivilant.

The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.
Charles Darwin To be able to distinguish between the respectful comsumption of a resource and wanton cruelty demonstrates the capacity that seperates him from other life - Reason.

Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.
Albert Schweitzer, The Philosophy of Civilization "In the jungle, the mighty jungle. . . " Sorry, I didn't have anything of substance to say to this one! :D

Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they are only animals.
Theodor Adorno (1903-1969), German Marxist philosopher, sociologist, and musicologist Aushwitz indeed! To assert that animals are equilivilant to humans does not raise their station but rather lowers humanity. The result is not improved treatment of animals but rather a devaluing of human life that can lead to an Aushwitz.

I believe animals should be respected as citizens of this earth. They should have the right to their own freedom, their own families, and their own life.
John Feldmann, Goldfinger Citizenship suggests responsibility. Have any of these geniuses had much luck persuading these furry citizens from killing and maiming each other?

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
Isaac Bashevis Singer To apply a term such as "innocence" to an animal is foolish anthromorphising. An animal is neither innocent nor guilty. It is simply an animal.

It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.
Mark Twain And to pretend to see something that isn't there is at best self-deception.

Kindness and compassion towards all living beings is a mark of a civilized society. �Racism, economic deprival, dog fighting and cock fighting, bullfighting and rodeos are all cut from the same defective fabric: violence. Only when we have become nonviolent towards all life will we have learned to live well ourselves.
Cesar Chavez (Who used to gather up his fellow workers to beat the crap out of illegal grape pickers.) These things might better be described as cruel violence. Violence itself is can be good or bad, depending on the circumstances.

There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher animals in their mental faculties... The lower animals, like man, manifestly feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery.
-- Charles Darwin (1809-1882) Yeah, animals demonstrate such a highly "evolved" capacity for moral reasoning. :D

"If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."
-- Albert Einstein
"Righteousness" is a religious standard, so its requirements are set by God, not man. To the best of my knowledge, Einstein was neither a god, nor a Vegatarian (or Rastafarian, for that matter!) As such, he survived through the injury of animals, albiet at the hands of others. Therefore I'm guessing that what he was saying was that a man who wishes to be good should refrain from cruelty to animals.

I'm off to bed now !!!

-- FLIX
 
As a hunter, I see things in this video that make me mad and others that dont bother me as much. I will start with the things that dont bother me as much. Firstly the shooting down the road, they may very well be on a ranch and therefore legally shooting down a road. Secondly the multiple shots, I once shot an elk 8 times in the heart and lungs (counted the holes while field dressing) before she finally went down, so I understand that stuff happens and multiple shots need to be taken. Now on to the things that bother me. It bothered me that when they went to take more shots at the animal, they didnt try to get closer and thus improve their aim. I think this single act would have ended the suffering much more quickly. The other thing that bothered me is that they laughed about shooting it in the foot and that it was just flailing around. To me its not funny and when it has happened to me I feel horrible about it and try to end the suffering as soon as I can. No body is perfect, but its horrible to laugh in anyone or anythings agony.
 
Hey guys thought I'd chime in here. I hunt. I fish. I don't take or kill what I do not eat. For me hunting is as much a spiritual event as anything else. I was not brought up hunting in fact I was not brought up fishing or hiking or anything-my dad did not teach me any hunting ethics (he does not hunt) BUT he did teach me ethics and respect.

That being said I am a self taught hunter and fisherman and take great pride in that. I hunt open sights and I hunt by myself. My views on hunting may be different than some and that may offend some people but I do not believe in canned trophy hunts for antlers alone. I do not believe in paying thousands of dollars to hunt on private land where there are better odds in acquiring an animal. I hunt public land. With that comes some some issues regarding other hunters competing for the same animal and prowling the same land.

I want to share a story I have experienced and why the original video in question troubles me.

I was deer hunting a couple of years ago when I came across a nice buck across a tree lined ridge. I was close to him but no clean shot was possible (thick tree brush). So I decided to flank him and meet him down the ridge where he was moving. As I was doing this I came across a couple of small does on a clearer patch of the mountain. Not wanting to spook them I sat down by a large boulder and a pine tree which was behind me I was leaning on. The does where down about 300-350 yards away ( I was still slightly above them). I sat up slowly to take a peek down at them when someone, another hunter fired at me. This scared the shi*t out of me because I heard the bullet zing passed me and hit near by me. I thought surely their was some other hunter trying to take the does below me, but the bullet did not hit down from me but came across me. I thought a second about what had just happened and started to look around when I heard another shot zing passed me. That was it! Someone was firing right at me! To this day I do not know why they did this-if they were trying to scare me away to get to the buck I was after (maybe they saw it too)? Or if they were trying to scare me away from the small does below me? Maybe there were a poor shot or some meatheads just screwing with me. I was wearing blaze orange too, large vest and blaze orange beanine on my head so it was obvious I WAS NOT THE DEAR. Sometimes I think about this and wonder if they were really trying to kill me?

In any event, this video reminded me of the stupid, irresponsible hunters who see only tunel vision where they MUST have their animal. The killing of the bear (in my mind with no honor) does not bother me as much as the mentality and the atitude the hunters displayed to me is the most troubling part. If a person has to take more than one shot, which happens so be it, but to unload your weapon into an animal already downed is sickening. Again, for me it is the atitude, the lack of respect for a great wild roaming beast, the lack of reverence and responsibility of shooting ethics which I despise.
 
Not sure why he would chance a standing shot when a prone or even kneeling position is far more stable. I was taught that if you can't make the kill shot, don't take the shot. Sometimes $#!T happens and a second shot may be required but six shots is a definite sign of an inexperienced shooter. The first deer I ever took was a small doe and my first shot was slightly above the vitals. My dad wouldn't let me take a second shot, I had to finish it with my knife. It may sound cruel but he wanted me to feel bad for the suffering it had to endure and see up close and personal why it's so imprtant to make a clean kill. I've since passed on many a deer 'cause I wasn't 100% sure I could make the shot. With a clear shooting lane and a perfect broadside shot from that close, there's no excuse for six shots to be taken IMO.
 
Mrs Pit again !! I think the guys in the video are Class A Jerks who probably had to be told which way round to point the gun!! They should have put the animal out of it's misery a lot quicker. I'm now waiting for the Headline in the paper that says:

"Man in Controversial Bear Killing Video found mauled to death by Bear" - now that would be Karma!!
 
Looks like a typical redneck hunt in my opinion. I'll bet it was a hard hunt too you know considering it was a gravel road and all. :thumbdn:

What gets me is most of the guys that consider them selves real hunters don't actually shoot much unless they're actually hunting. In my opinion shooting and target practice is as much a part of the hunt as the hunt itself.
 
Auschwitz begins whenever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they are only animals.

Theodor Adorno (1903-1969), German Marxist philosopher, sociologist, and musicologist.

1. Funny coming from a Marxist. Stalin killed, murdered, executed, whatever you want to call it, more people than Hitler did.

2. Auschwitz and all the other hellholes like it (Bergen-Belsen, Sobibor, etc.) were the end result of the policies of a vegetarian who loved his pet dogs dearly, namely - Adolph Hitler. Auschwitz may have just as easily began because he had such a hatred for some human life. Perhaps all human life. He valued animals more than human beings.

Not to sidetrack or make it political, it's just a brilliant quote until you consider history - then it's not really so brilliant after all in this context.
 
Typical of the redneck hunter- more adept at running thier mouths than shooting thier rifle competently. First shot should have been the last.:thumbdn:

Mighty p**s poor "hunting" there.

The two above post reflect my thing quite well. I hunt. Mostly doe tags for meat. I'm not into trophy hunting. Nothing wrong with it, just not for me.

These incompetent A holes are not hunters IMO. Poor markmanship, and from the looks of it SAFETY was not on their minds during their "HUNT" on the logging road.:rolleyes:

I have no problem with shooting game at all. I strive to take my game with one shot, and keep SAFETY in mind at all times. Taking joy in the death throws of a animal proves that those guys should be kicked in the n*ts and given a match. :grumpy:
 
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