- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
- Messages
- 6,973
"The 45 acp is very similar to the 45-70. A big, heavy, slower moving bullet. The 45 has proven itself for many years.
It works... It even works as a defense gun, with ball ammo. That isn't the case with smaller calibers. Granted there are many options as far as defensive rounds, and this has made the smaller calibers more efffective, but being able to use it effectively with standard, lower cost ammo, says a lot to me about the caliber..."
There are real world results that suggest all pistol calibers are insufficient for reliably stopping a threat, unless you hit vitals or central nervous system. The *actual* permanent crush cavities inside human shooting victims are virtually identical between pistol calibers, This is the only reliable mechanism for incapacitation/death according to FBI research. More deaths in this country occur from the weak old 22 LR, which is well known for it's supposed lack of stopping power. If put in the right place it will do the job, like most any other caliber if penetration is sufficient.
"There must be a difference. There have been some L.E agencies, and Spec OPs groups that were getting patheic results with smaller calibers, and they switched back to the 45 acp."
That may be the case, but the ultimate question is where were these smaller caliber bullets impacting suspects? What loadings were these departments using in their service pistols? Was penetration sufficient? There are way too many variables to say why they were having that result.
"For a defensive round, one that you trust with your life, why not throw the biggest bullet you can ? It certainly isn't going to hurt. The exception would be those that can't shoot a 45. If you can't hit the target, a miss with a bigger bullet, is still a miss..."
Bigger calibers equal more carry weight and recoil, along with less magazine capacity. I'm all for *heavy for caliber* bullets, I prefer 147 gr. in 9mm not just for the decreased felt recoil, muzzle flash and report; but also the increased range, penetration and accuracy. But it's not always better to have heavier/larger caliber, imagine going on a Rocky Mountain elk hunt carrying a *roughly* 30 lb. Barrett .50 BMG rifle, you'd wish you brought the trusty old .30-06.
It works... It even works as a defense gun, with ball ammo. That isn't the case with smaller calibers. Granted there are many options as far as defensive rounds, and this has made the smaller calibers more efffective, but being able to use it effectively with standard, lower cost ammo, says a lot to me about the caliber..."
There are real world results that suggest all pistol calibers are insufficient for reliably stopping a threat, unless you hit vitals or central nervous system. The *actual* permanent crush cavities inside human shooting victims are virtually identical between pistol calibers, This is the only reliable mechanism for incapacitation/death according to FBI research. More deaths in this country occur from the weak old 22 LR, which is well known for it's supposed lack of stopping power. If put in the right place it will do the job, like most any other caliber if penetration is sufficient.
"There must be a difference. There have been some L.E agencies, and Spec OPs groups that were getting patheic results with smaller calibers, and they switched back to the 45 acp."
That may be the case, but the ultimate question is where were these smaller caliber bullets impacting suspects? What loadings were these departments using in their service pistols? Was penetration sufficient? There are way too many variables to say why they were having that result.
"For a defensive round, one that you trust with your life, why not throw the biggest bullet you can ? It certainly isn't going to hurt. The exception would be those that can't shoot a 45. If you can't hit the target, a miss with a bigger bullet, is still a miss..."
Bigger calibers equal more carry weight and recoil, along with less magazine capacity. I'm all for *heavy for caliber* bullets, I prefer 147 gr. in 9mm not just for the decreased felt recoil, muzzle flash and report; but also the increased range, penetration and accuracy. But it's not always better to have heavier/larger caliber, imagine going on a Rocky Mountain elk hunt carrying a *roughly* 30 lb. Barrett .50 BMG rifle, you'd wish you brought the trusty old .30-06.
