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Pacific Salt saves my dog from being mauled to death...
- Thread starter Ming65
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:jerkit: sure a lab can whip a pit bull. :yawn: and the braird is known as such a pit fighter. why don't you take your labs and brairds to Japan where dog fighting is legal and see?
big deal you posted pictures of a hairy dog standing there? what did you prove? You know in the pit contests theres no way any lab or big hairy mutt will do anything. That is a proven fact. You all are the ones that no little about dogs other than whatever you own is gonna do great wonders. Face it your dog is not bred to pit fight. He'd quit and try to escape crying loudly within a very short while. That's the truth.
big deal you posted pictures of a hairy dog standing there? what did you prove? You know in the pit contests theres no way any lab or big hairy mutt will do anything. That is a proven fact. You all are the ones that no little about dogs other than whatever you own is gonna do great wonders. Face it your dog is not bred to pit fight. He'd quit and try to escape crying loudly within a very short while. That's the truth.
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Depends on the dog...
In my lifetime around dogs I have seen alot of things that would seem strange on the subject of dog breeds reacting in an atypical way from what books and the news tell you.
-A pack of Beagles attacked me in Tennessee when I was four, I was walking with my Spanish Shorthair (Buck) he in turn attacked the Beagles. Killing one.
-My dog Rusty a fourteen year old Welsh Corgi, attacked by a coyote on a camping trip, she tore two of the coyotes toes clean off while it could not get a hold on her.
-In Nevada (Reno) there are people breeding Chocolate Labs to Bulldogs to get a "High Desert Dog" that is stouter of frame and has a water resistant, heat retaining coat.
Do as you wish, but keep an open mind the world is not as real as the media would allow you to believe.
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And you are talking about nothing! in legal dog fighting in Japan there's been found two breeds that will fight. The Tosa and the American Pit Bull. I've talked a great deal to people in Japan that fight dogs and they have tryed all these breeds people holler about. All that will perform in the fight rings are those two. What you may have seen means nothing as whatever dogs where involved certainly were not matched and could have been very poor even not pure. You want to know about fighting dogs? Check the Japanese dog fights, see what they say about all these other breeds. There lies the truth.
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HERE IT IS FROM JAPAN WHERE THEY FIGHT THEM.SO I'M DONE I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU PPL KNOW ABOUT REAL DOGS.----------------------- The breeds of dogs used in the fighting rings of Japan are the Tosa and the APBT. (American Pitbull Terrier) All the other fighting type breeds (Neos, Dougues, English Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, Presas, Cane Corsos, Dogos, etc, and even 2 versions of Pakistani Fighting dogs) have been imported and tried in Japan at one time or another both against the Tosa and the APBT and have had little to no success. Clearly, the Tosa and APBT are the breed of choice for Japanese dogmen and it is rare or almost unheard of to see any other type of breed in any kind of sanctioned tournament. Both of these breeds have been bred solely for its effectiveness in the ring for many generations and are continued to be bred this way today. Today, there are basically two types of matches in Japan. One is the traditional match: usually held in a raised platform shaped as an Octagon. These usually have a time limit of 30 minutes but with some locations like Okinawa have longer time limits at 40 minutes. The time limit is in place so that they allow the number of dogs that are entered at a tournament to take place at a steady pace. Additionally, only males are usually allowed to fight in the tournaments. In this type of match there are usually 3 judges that rule and sit on top of the ring, the owners are not allowed to be in the ring and must direct their dogs from the top of the ring and are not allowed to touch the dogs at any time. Once the dogs are released and after the first min. or two, all growling or vocalization from the dogs must cease. (they should be in holds by that time anyway!) The first dog that starts to whine, cry, growl, bark, etc..(seri) is the loser. Also the dog that starts to turn away from it's opponent (3 steps to be exact) (hashiri) is also the loser, jumping the ring or attempts to leave the fight is also the loser. Basically, the rules are set in place that a dog with questionable braveness has all the opportunity to leave the fight to determine the braver of the two. A dog that does not show any signs of quitting could lose if he is simply overpowered and it becomes a one way fight. When the duration of the bout gets longer, and both opponents start to become winded, a winner can be determined by the dog that is in holds and the loser that is out of holds for a length of time. (Osaekomi) If both dogs are winded and out of holds, the dog that is standing at the 3 minute time limit will be the winner. If both dogs are still fighting and in holds at the 30 minute mark then it will be a tie. At the 30 minute mark, if one of the dogs is out of holds, or lying down and the other one is relentlessly attacking, then the one still fighting will be the winner. By far, the traditional match is more common and popular throughout Japan. Tosas are the most commonly used breed for this type of match, however there are large numbers of APBTs that also participate in these matches, especially in Okinawa. In most of these traditional tournaments, there are 4 weight classes: light weight.: 30kg min.- 40kg (kogata), middle weight: 40kg - 45kg (chugata), heavy weight: 45kg-55kg (oogata), super heavy weight 55kg - 65kg (cho-oogata), and unlimited class over 65kg (musabetsu). Of course, some of the APBT clubs that participate in traditional matches have their own sets of weight classes. Most dogs are matched by weight and it is uncommon for dogs to be matched from different weight classes. However, a 30kg dog may be matched to a 39kg dog or a 45kg dog into a 55kg dog, as long as they fit in the particular weight classes.
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Just take a deep breathe and relax...
Then look up what a Presa is and what they are built for, then write back here about how you now understand a little more than before.
As to my experiences, they mean alot.
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ok what is a pigdog and pacific salt....once that is given the i will completely understand the whole story
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Pigdogs are any mutt used to hunt boar, most likely Pit mixes. A Salty is a type of Spyderco knife that has a high resistance to corrosion due to the type of blade steel.
Ming, Outstanding! Damn sad it had to happen but I would like to think I would have the cojones to have behaved similarly. I'm glad your little one will be OK.
Jill Jackson, your assertions that nurture will overcome nature are ridiculous. For example, several years ago as a consequence of working as a veterinary tech I ended up with a clients unwanted bull terrier. She was as sweet and loving a dog as any I have ever met and had been raised from birth in a home with several pomeranians, cats and small children. After she came to me she lived peacefully with me and six other dogs of various breeds for many years. On a trip to a JRT show I had stopped to eat and left her in the back of the station wagon with her best friend my Rhodesian ridgeback (also a very gentle dog and confirmed coward, afraid of cats). I should also add this was winter in the north with front windows cracked so no danger of overheating. While this was a common practice of mine while traveling with my dogs for some reason I felt I should go check on them in mid meal. Approaching the car I could see the back three windows smeared heavily with blood. Opening the hatch I found the terrier holding the rhodie's ear in her vice grip jaws. No amount of pulling or prying would get her to release. So, not wanting to harm her, I resorted to the LAPD love hug on the terrier to the point of total unconsciousness before she released. When she awoke she seemed to have no memory of the fight. The Rhodesian took a while to heal her ear and longer to trust the terrier again but within a few months they were friends again, though never alone together again, and remained so. The terrier had never attacked anyone or anything before or since. For another example witness the Jack Russell Terrier. All I have met are friendly happy dogs albeit rambunctious. Take one and place it in close proximity to a rodent( no prior training or experience necessary) and you will see genes in action big time. Love training and socialization count for a lot but genes will always be there and generations of breeding will tell.
Jill Jackson, your assertions that nurture will overcome nature are ridiculous. For example, several years ago as a consequence of working as a veterinary tech I ended up with a clients unwanted bull terrier. She was as sweet and loving a dog as any I have ever met and had been raised from birth in a home with several pomeranians, cats and small children. After she came to me she lived peacefully with me and six other dogs of various breeds for many years. On a trip to a JRT show I had stopped to eat and left her in the back of the station wagon with her best friend my Rhodesian ridgeback (also a very gentle dog and confirmed coward, afraid of cats). I should also add this was winter in the north with front windows cracked so no danger of overheating. While this was a common practice of mine while traveling with my dogs for some reason I felt I should go check on them in mid meal. Approaching the car I could see the back three windows smeared heavily with blood. Opening the hatch I found the terrier holding the rhodie's ear in her vice grip jaws. No amount of pulling or prying would get her to release. So, not wanting to harm her, I resorted to the LAPD love hug on the terrier to the point of total unconsciousness before she released. When she awoke she seemed to have no memory of the fight. The Rhodesian took a while to heal her ear and longer to trust the terrier again but within a few months they were friends again, though never alone together again, and remained so. The terrier had never attacked anyone or anything before or since. For another example witness the Jack Russell Terrier. All I have met are friendly happy dogs albeit rambunctious. Take one and place it in close proximity to a rodent( no prior training or experience necessary) and you will see genes in action big time. Love training and socialization count for a lot but genes will always be there and generations of breeding will tell.
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funny the JAPANESE imported them and they have the money to import the best of the breeds they wished to try and its proven fact that they could not fight in the legal contests with Pits or Tosas. I don't listen to people that own some breed they just think is tough, I listen to the ones that fight them. Where it's legal. I'm interested in all aspects of dogs and the truth is out there. People that know say all of you that talk crap about your other breeds are FOS. That's good enough for me.
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OK here's more from the Japanese site------------- The Presa Canario has its origins as a fighting dog. Today, it is largely a reconstructed breed, with heavy infusions of English Mastiff and American Staffordshire Terrier. As a fighter, it is reported to be similar to the American Bulldog - furiously aggressive for the first few minutes of the fight but lacking in gameness and staying power. The Dogue de Bordeaux has not been used as a fighting dog for about a century. In a mixed match with the Tosa witnessed by my principle informant, the two dogs collided in the middle of the ring and the Tosa knocked the Dogue de Bordeaux cold.
The Cane Corso looks like a fighting dog, but really isnât. In functions, it is more akin to the Fila; being primarily an estate guardian and protector of livestock. Also like Fila, it is a good pack dog. One of the leading Cane breeders tells me that he has as many as seven male Canes playing together peaceably. When all is said an done, the "Toughest Dog in the World" is either a 60 or 70 pound Pit Bull dog or a Tosa weighing about 130 pounds.
At ANY rate lol, overall staffy type dogs do have a higher win rate in fighting, but thats still up to the individual dog. the biggest of my two pitbulls, doesnt even chase cats. Hes not aggressive in ANY way, shape or form. Neither is his daughter sissy. She barks alot, but thats about the extent of it. And the rest of the pits in the family, (alot) are all the same. Very calm and docile dogs. Never hurt anyone. Can they rip you to shreds? Absolutely. You could have body armor on, and youd still get mauled half to death. But that only indicates their capabilities. Theyd never use em though. Not all of em are fighters.
As for: "in recent years, they have usually been the number one and number two canine killers of humans." thats because of the morons that own them. I admit. But banning the dog isnt going to help one bit. full dress AK47's are banned in california, (hell, you cant even order a steak knife in the mail to california) and youd get shot with one quicker than shit in south central L.A. if youre wearing the wrong 'colors' or whatnot.. did banning help their little situation? nope. the only thing it did, is screw everyone else that DID obey the laws originally. That is no answer. The pitbull ban, is akin to the 'no bayonet lugs on rifles' rule in the assault weapon ban. It did absolutely nothing. If you made the sentence for dog fighting an automatic 20 year stretch, THEN things would change.
But as far as all this 'pitbulls kill this many people each year' fact.. how did they know they were pitbulls? Thats still what i want to know. Everytime i watch tv, or michigan humane society cop show, or the dog show, i always ask my girl, "is that a staffordshire terrier?" And shes like 'nope'. Now Im a pretty intelligent guy, and have seen a lot of dogs in my life.. and if i still constantly mistake one dog for another, whats to think theyre not doing it either? Im willing to bet money, that half of those 'pitbulls' in those statistics werent even pitbulls. In fact i bet you they werent even from the terrier family at all.
Look at firearms for instance. When speaking of not magazine capacity, but of overall percentiles of efficiency... Lets look at hunting rifles.. Whenever a nut snaps, what does he do. He grabs a decent centerfire caliber rifle with a scope on it, and goes shooting. Sure, theres those nuts, with ak's and sks's, that fire up the local school playground, but what happens... maybe 2 get hit, and then the police come and end up shootin him? Now what happens when a nut gets a decent long range gun... he either smokes, or seriously wounds pretty much any person he drops the hammer on. And the police have to sit there and find a way to get this guy, without gettin their little melons shot off. most of the time, the cops take HOURS to resolve the problem. sometimes, he gets away. Tell me whats deadlier to you. a stupid, terribly inaccurate sks with iron sights, or a nut with a scoped 30.06 bolt rifle.... yep. why arent the ak's left alone, and the hunting rifles banned? its the same exact political nonsense that goes on up there in the head shed. those people have NO clue whats actually going on down here among the rank and file people, so they just start signing away our liberties how they see fit, without doing any of their OWN, GENUINE research first.
But using statistics like 'these are the two most dangerous dogs around' viewpoint to ban dogs, is like saying, 'ok, which are the two top cars involved in auto accidents. What? the mazda 3 and the k car? ok, ban them" You just cant up and start banning the top of the statistic charts for auto accidents, dogs, guns, knives, etc etc.. Thats just straight away illogical. Nothing will get solved. Look at alll the other banned items around.. are they gone? Nope. Have the crimes theyre used in gone down? Nope. Drugs, machine guns, switchblades, whores etc etc.. there EVERYWHERE lol. Ban or no ban.
Theres more logical approaches to curbing irresponsible behavior than blanket bans guys. And you know it. Really strong dogs are not any more dangerous than that gun sittin in your nightstand. Just like your kids. If you raise em right, theyll listen to you, do good in school, and be productive people. If you raised them in a trailer, getting drunk all the time, beating them when youre bored, and not ever sending them to school, or properly socializing them what happens.. they get around 15, start smokin cigarettes and weed, listening to rap, get someone pregnant, or become pregnant themselves, fight alot, knock over the corner store by the time theyre 17, do a 3 year stretch in jail, come out stronger, gayer, and having even more mischievous knowlege, and then wind up either killing someone, or just selling drugs to kids or doing something to make themselves wind up on the news.
Dogs (and kids for that matter) dont just raise themselves. People raise them. Dogs that grow up around losers, become violent like their owners. Dogs that are raised around really nice people, become nice themselves. Of course theres always the one or two that just get angry and bite someone but, you cant take that, and say 'look, these dogs are crazy, ban them' because thats just the exception not the norm. All I want is fairness. Thats it. If certain dogs are to be banned, then I want the most dangerous everything to be banned. If all the rest of the stuff is allowed to stay, then so should certain dogs. We have rights and liberties in this country, they cant just start choosing which ones theyre going to allow us to keep... when THEY feel its convenient, or benefits them. Thats bullshit. And its our dumbasses that allow it too. I always thought they had to run it past US first. You know, the people that actually allowed them to be in office? The people that pay their salaries?
Whats this country coming to when its on them what kind of DOGS we can have in our homes now... That is just regoddamdiculous if you ask me. Next theyre going to ban certain colours on cars...
As for: "in recent years, they have usually been the number one and number two canine killers of humans." thats because of the morons that own them. I admit. But banning the dog isnt going to help one bit. full dress AK47's are banned in california, (hell, you cant even order a steak knife in the mail to california) and youd get shot with one quicker than shit in south central L.A. if youre wearing the wrong 'colors' or whatnot.. did banning help their little situation? nope. the only thing it did, is screw everyone else that DID obey the laws originally. That is no answer. The pitbull ban, is akin to the 'no bayonet lugs on rifles' rule in the assault weapon ban. It did absolutely nothing. If you made the sentence for dog fighting an automatic 20 year stretch, THEN things would change.
But as far as all this 'pitbulls kill this many people each year' fact.. how did they know they were pitbulls? Thats still what i want to know. Everytime i watch tv, or michigan humane society cop show, or the dog show, i always ask my girl, "is that a staffordshire terrier?" And shes like 'nope'. Now Im a pretty intelligent guy, and have seen a lot of dogs in my life.. and if i still constantly mistake one dog for another, whats to think theyre not doing it either? Im willing to bet money, that half of those 'pitbulls' in those statistics werent even pitbulls. In fact i bet you they werent even from the terrier family at all.
Look at firearms for instance. When speaking of not magazine capacity, but of overall percentiles of efficiency... Lets look at hunting rifles.. Whenever a nut snaps, what does he do. He grabs a decent centerfire caliber rifle with a scope on it, and goes shooting. Sure, theres those nuts, with ak's and sks's, that fire up the local school playground, but what happens... maybe 2 get hit, and then the police come and end up shootin him? Now what happens when a nut gets a decent long range gun... he either smokes, or seriously wounds pretty much any person he drops the hammer on. And the police have to sit there and find a way to get this guy, without gettin their little melons shot off. most of the time, the cops take HOURS to resolve the problem. sometimes, he gets away. Tell me whats deadlier to you. a stupid, terribly inaccurate sks with iron sights, or a nut with a scoped 30.06 bolt rifle.... yep. why arent the ak's left alone, and the hunting rifles banned? its the same exact political nonsense that goes on up there in the head shed. those people have NO clue whats actually going on down here among the rank and file people, so they just start signing away our liberties how they see fit, without doing any of their OWN, GENUINE research first.
But using statistics like 'these are the two most dangerous dogs around' viewpoint to ban dogs, is like saying, 'ok, which are the two top cars involved in auto accidents. What? the mazda 3 and the k car? ok, ban them" You just cant up and start banning the top of the statistic charts for auto accidents, dogs, guns, knives, etc etc.. Thats just straight away illogical. Nothing will get solved. Look at alll the other banned items around.. are they gone? Nope. Have the crimes theyre used in gone down? Nope. Drugs, machine guns, switchblades, whores etc etc.. there EVERYWHERE lol. Ban or no ban.
Theres more logical approaches to curbing irresponsible behavior than blanket bans guys. And you know it. Really strong dogs are not any more dangerous than that gun sittin in your nightstand. Just like your kids. If you raise em right, theyll listen to you, do good in school, and be productive people. If you raised them in a trailer, getting drunk all the time, beating them when youre bored, and not ever sending them to school, or properly socializing them what happens.. they get around 15, start smokin cigarettes and weed, listening to rap, get someone pregnant, or become pregnant themselves, fight alot, knock over the corner store by the time theyre 17, do a 3 year stretch in jail, come out stronger, gayer, and having even more mischievous knowlege, and then wind up either killing someone, or just selling drugs to kids or doing something to make themselves wind up on the news.
Dogs (and kids for that matter) dont just raise themselves. People raise them. Dogs that grow up around losers, become violent like their owners. Dogs that are raised around really nice people, become nice themselves. Of course theres always the one or two that just get angry and bite someone but, you cant take that, and say 'look, these dogs are crazy, ban them' because thats just the exception not the norm. All I want is fairness. Thats it. If certain dogs are to be banned, then I want the most dangerous everything to be banned. If all the rest of the stuff is allowed to stay, then so should certain dogs. We have rights and liberties in this country, they cant just start choosing which ones theyre going to allow us to keep... when THEY feel its convenient, or benefits them. Thats bullshit. And its our dumbasses that allow it too. I always thought they had to run it past US first. You know, the people that actually allowed them to be in office? The people that pay their salaries?
Whats this country coming to when its on them what kind of DOGS we can have in our homes now... That is just regoddamdiculous if you ask me. Next theyre going to ban certain colours on cars...
:jerkit: sure a lab can whip a pit bull. :yawn: and the braird is known as such a pit fighter. why don't you take your labs and brairds to Japan where dog fighting is legal and see?
a. BRIARD not braird. You cant know that much about the breed if you dont know how to spell its simple name. No, it wasnt a typo, I saw you misspell it several times
b. I never said the pittbulls were bred for fighting, merely that that was the breed of the dogs. My little dog is a yapper, and she got in one of their faces. They took it as aggression, and jumped on her. The big dog then intervened. The dog park is public, so anyone can come, but people dont bring their pit fighters to those places.
c. the shag on the briard is precisely what makes them able to contend with a pittbull. The historical reason sheep dogs (the briard is a sheep dog) have so much hair is to protect them from wolves or other predators when they are guarding the flock.
d. I don't care what the japanese think, I know that all things equal, if my dog is bred to take on wolves, it can handle a pittbull.
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Wow, the OP is kind enough to share a bad story about what he had to do to save his dog and some herm has to hijack his thread for his personal crusade to champion the Pit Bull. :thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn:
No class, no class.
No class, no class.
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Sure and they are the ones that start how ole' yeller came charging in and tore up "two" pit bulls that was bent on killing their small puppy. I don't believe 90% of what people say about this stuff. Telling somebody to get some big hairy french dog to protect them from raging pitbulls is just stupid. Sure that's gonna be the trick. If you know about dogs at all this kind of advice is merely the owner of an breed of dog trying to stoke his dog's image. If real pit bulls did attack you'd be better off shooting them or cutting their throats than relying on some dog to save the day. That's what I'd do.
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A wolf is not a dog breed to fight in pit contests to the death. Its a wild animal that still retains is will to survive. Sure tell people what you want but the truth is you better not rely on that dog to tear up fighting breeds. The Japanese don't think when it comes to dogfighting. They import and try all different breeds. Its a sport there look about online you can find sites from there. They have dogfighting centers in Japan. All You people just talk and think. Wow my dog is big with hair he can slay any dog! It doesn't matter to me really besides it's just not so. Fact is your dog is not breed to fight to the death, the breed just wasn't developed by man to do that. It's a protection type dog like a flock guardian. Its not going to keep going against a dog like a Japanese Tosa or American Pit bull. If they would/could they'd be used just as any other breed would. Telling people your breed is all they need to save the day if fighting dogs attack is just your owners ego talking.
I never said anything like that, all I said is that he's big...and that he did once take on 2 pittbulls...I never claimed he was a japanese fighter or whatever...I was telling a story in good humor and you decided to throw a hissy fit and make a fool out of yourself. Just let it go
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No you claimed he was all the protection needed against any dog(s) that attack. You said yourself the breed was the "solution". lmao it's clearly you that's a fool.
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