Pacific Salt saves my dog from being mauled to death...

No I believe in the truth and he clearly said "d. I don't care what the japanese think, I know that all things equal, if my dog is bred to take on wolves, it can handle a pitbull." that's just not so. I don't care if you think I have class or not. I have dogs and love dogs. Just because I want to know the truth about dogs ALL dogs and strive to learn it and don't let these statements made go unchallenged you say I have "no class". woopie at least I know the truth.
 
J.Jackson. Isn't the Tosa Inu closely related to the English mastiff and even looks like a fawn Mastiff?

The English Mastiff were fighting and war dogs originally but the aggression has basicly bred out of them. IMO, that's a kind of good thing as we're talking about dogs that get big! ( Mine's 34" and 200 lbs and not particularly big for an adult male).

Mine merely ignores other dogs and people, and shows their protective instincts by always interposing their bulk between the owner and whomever is nearby. They bark or snarl very little but when they do there is a monster type quality to their sound.

They are much quicker, and agile than people expect. They are also great family dogs, very protective over the children of the family.

As imposing as these dogs are I wouldn't want my adult male to get into a fight with a 40 or 60lb trained Pit bull. The days of two mastiffs fighting a lion, or 3 a bear in the coliseum are long over. The modern mastiffs are bred to be stable and tolerant, not agressive. They're known for their intelligence amongst their owners. Looking at their lazy, slothfull appearance it's difficult to imagine just how smart they are. They are also a bit less eager to please than a german or belgian shepard, for instance.

I have not been able to find an example of an English Mastiff causing a human death since the insurance companies began keeping records.

There are no bad dogs. There are only bad owners. Joe
 
BUT they aren't English Mastiffs -The Tosa often was referred to as the "Sumo wrestler of the dog world." It has been bred for hundreds of years in Japan. It was developed between the period of 1868 and 1912 by crosses with the Kochi (a local Japanese breed) and native Shikoku fighting dogs. The Tosa we recognize today was developed in the late 1800's. The best of the Japanese Tosas were crossed with newly imported European breeds such as the Great Dane, Mastiff, Bulldog, Bull Terrier and St. Bernard, to increase its size. The result was a powerful, agile and athletic mastiff-type dog. In Japan, the Tosa is considered a national treasure. Although dog fighting is now illegal in Europe, North America, in Japan, pit fights continue in remote rural regions of Japan, where the Tosa, at 66-88 pounds (30-40 kg.) - smaller than those bred in the West - is still used for fighting. The breed excels at Japanese-style dog fighting. Japanese dog-fighting rules in the last century demanded that dogs fight silently, without cowering, and the Tosa fought by these rules - relentlessly and silently. The Tosa is a rare breed, even in their native land and have only recently been introduced to the USA. Unfortunately, this breed is banned in some countries as a dangerous breed. It is definitely unsuitable for beginners, but with the proper socialization, handling and training, it can make a wonderful family companion. This massive dog excels at weight-pulling and makes a great watch and guard dog.
 
Yes you are right Mastiff most large dogs today have not been used or bred to fight for decades. Its easy to revert to much less aggressive dogs as far as pure fight drive. Back when Great Danes, Boxers and Mastiffs where used to hunt wild boar and fight they was much more aggressive. There's very few dogs these days that are used that way. Even pit bulls tend to become less capable when they are not bred the way dog-fighters breed them. (they test them and bred only the very best) I don't believe in dogfighting I just always liked rough dogs, sharp knives and firearms. I live out in the sticks and growing up we always had capable dogs about to defend the property. Never had our home broken into even when there was others being looted. Dogs do what man developed them to do they can be wonderful servants and friends with a little understanding.
 
I don't believe in dogfighting I just always liked rough dogs, sharp knives and firearms. I live out in the sticks and growing up we always had capable dogs about to defend the property. Never had our home broken into even when there was others being looted.

Fess up, "Jill" . . . you're really a fella, right? :p
 
Fess up, "Jill" . . . you're really a fella, right? :p

Fess up? Sure buddy you are so sexist as to think no girl could possibly like knives or guns, or rough dogs. No I'm 19 and my Dad has always had guns, knives and big dogs. I don't care what you think about me my Dad taught me to shoot when I was 8 and I've always had a pocket knife and known how to keep it sharp. So what if I'm interested in things other girls aren't? Does that make me a bad girl? I also read nearly every book in the school library and know about a lot of other stuff , too. My interest in things drives me to be informed. (my Dad also taught me how to change a tire and my own oil and air filter as he believes a woman should be able to do those things herself)
 
I rescued a pit from the pound a few years back. As the owner of a "potentially dangerous" dog I will say that the responsibility to train and control a dog lies with the owner of that dog. You did what you had to do.
 
Fess up? Sure buddy you are so sexist as to think no girl could possibly like knives or guns, or rough dogs. No I'm 19 and my Dad has always had guns, knives and big dogs. I don't care what you think about me my Dad taught me to shoot when I was 8 and I've always had a pocket knife and known how to keep it sharp. So what if I'm interested in things other girls aren't? Does that make me a bad girl? I also read nearly every book in the school library and know about a lot of other stuff , too. My interest in things drives me to be informed. (my Dad also taught me how to change a tire and my own oil and air filter as he believes a woman should be able to do those things herself)

Damn! I wish I was 20, errrrr 30, oh alright 40 years younger! You're a real catch (and I mean that). Keep up the good fight - I don't agree with everything you say, but I like your style! :D
 
Fess up? Sure buddy you are so sexist as to think no girl could possibly like knives or guns, or rough dogs. No I'm 19 and my Dad has always had guns, knives and big dogs. I don't care what you think about me my Dad taught me to shoot when I was 8 and I've always had a pocket knife and known how to keep it sharp. So what if I'm interested in things other girls aren't? Does that make me a bad girl? I also read nearly every book in the school library and know about a lot of other stuff , too. My interest in things drives me to be informed. (my Dad also taught me how to change a tire and my own oil and air filter as he believes a woman should be able to do those things herself)

I'm not sexist at all. Fellows trolling as alleged "ladies" in this forum is -- sadly -- not uncommon. I've known (and loved) a few very unladylike young women who were also into "guns, knives and big dogs" and am very cool with that. It's just that something seems a bit *off* about the tone of your posts -- especially when talking about things like the "gameness" of fighting dogs -- that makes me suspect "troll."

If you are, in fact, a lady, please accept my sincere apology and respect due . . . and look me up if ever you get to the Tidewater area so I can take you out to dinner and buy you stuff. :)
 
I'm not sexist at all. Fellows trolling as alleged "ladies" in this forum is -- sadly -- not uncommon. I've known (and loved) a few very unladylike young women who were also into "guns, knives and big dogs" and am very cool with that. It's just that something seems a bit *off* about the tone of your posts -- especially when talking about things like the "gameness" of fighting dogs -- that makes me suspect "troll."

If you are, in fact, a lady, please accept my sincere apology and respect due . . . and look me up if ever you get to the Tidewater area so I can take you out to dinner and buy you stuff. :)

:thumbup: quack, quack:thumbup:
 
funny the JAPANESE imported them and they have the money to import the best of the breeds they wished to try and its proven fact that they could not fight in the legal contests with Pits or Tosas. I don't listen to people that own some breed they just think is tough, I listen to the ones that fight them. Where it's legal. I'm interested in all aspects of dogs and the truth is out there. People that know say all of you that talk crap about your other breeds are FOS. That's good enough for me.

You keep saying one thing and then posting articles that either contradict or don't support what you're saying.

Do you even read the stuff you post?

You: "in legal dog fighting in Japan there's been found two breeds that will fight. The Tosa and the American Pit Bull"

The article you posted: "All the other fighting type breeds (Neos, Dougues, English Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, Presas, Cane Corsos, Dogos, etc, and even 2 versions of Pakistani Fighting dogs) have been imported and tried in Japan at one time or another both against the Tosa and the APBT and have had little to no success. . . . Once the dogs are released and after the first min. or two, all growling or vocalization from the dogs must cease. (they should be in holds by that time anyway!) The first dog that starts to whine, cry, growl, bark, etc..(seri) is the loser."

That does NOT say that those other breeds won't fight. It just says that they have not been successful for Japanese dog fighting. According to that article, if a dog growls after the first minute or two, it loses. So as far as we know - all those other dogs might just like to bark too much for Japanese rules.
 
I'm not sexist at all. Fellows trolling as alleged "ladies" in this forum is -- sadly -- not uncommon. I've known (and loved) a few very unladylike young women who were also into "guns, knives and big dogs" and am very cool with that. It's just that something seems a bit *off* about the tone of your posts -- especially when talking about things like the "gameness" of fighting dogs -- that makes me suspect "troll."

If you are, in fact, a lady, please accept my sincere apology and respect due . . . and look me up if ever you get to the Tidewater area so I can take you out to dinner and buy you stuff. :)

I admit I've always had a warm spot in my heart for dogs that can whip other dogs. When I was about 9 or 10 there was a huge German Shepherd that lived on an adjoining farm he was a well know bully of kids and other dogs. One day we was leaving in the car our black and tan coonhound was following us along the side of the road when there the GS was. He attacked our dog in a flash and up on their hind legs they went, we stopped thinking he'd hurt our dog. But our coonhound bowed him over and holding the GS by the throat shook the heck out of him! I thought that was the coolest thing ever! To see this bully of smaller dogs and kids on bikes be bested. In Jack London's book "WHITE FANG" there's a chapter called the clinging death. About the of the Fighting Wolf of the Klondikes.(where White Fang defeats all comers until they bring in a Pit Bull) When I read that book at 13 and later saw the movie I just sorta got into reading up on fighting dogs. Just because I like to read about dogs and what they was bred for doesn't mean I practice it. I've been lucky to have a family that encouraged me to do as I wanted instead of what others think a young girl should. I spend much of my spare time hiking in the woods with my dogs, Its very relaxing to me. So, this is a "blade forum" and not a dog forum I suppose This will be my last post in this thread.
 
You keep saying one thing and then posting articles that either contradict or don't support what you're saying.

Do you even read the stuff you post?

You: "in legal dog fighting in Japan there's been found two breeds that will fight. The Tosa and the American Pit Bull"

The article you posted: "All the other fighting type breeds (Neos, Dougues, English Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, Presas, Cane Corsos, Dogos, etc, and even 2 versions of Pakistani Fighting dogs) have been imported and tried in Japan at one time or another both against the Tosa and the APBT and have had little to no success. . . . Once the dogs are released and after the first min. or two, all growling or vocalization from the dogs must cease. (they should be in holds by that time anyway!) The first dog that starts to whine, cry, growl, bark, etc..(seri) is the loser."

That does NOT say that those other breeds won't fight. It just says that they have not been successful for Japanese dog fighting. According to that article, if a dog growls after the first minute or two, it loses. So as far as we know - all those other dogs might just like to bark too much for Japanese rules.

No they aren't game enough to fight very long. Sure any dog will fight, but for how long? Almost any fighting breed fights with little or no noise after they are fighting. Most of those big rough dogs the Japanese have found don't like to go at it much longer than 15 min. I've read what the people over there say about breeds other than the tosa or APBT. I've even chatted on a forum with them about it. Believe what you want. Its something I've looked into and I know the truth.
 
HERE IS THE ENTIRE ARTICLE AND WITH THAT I'm out its just a matter of research and being informed to me, sorry if I've offended anyone at all.:D The breeds of dogs used in the fighting rings of Japan are the Tosa and the APBT. (American Pitbull Terrier) All the other fighting type breeds (Neos, Dougues, English Mastiffs, American Bulldogs, Presas, Cane Corsos, Dogos, etc, and even 2 versions of Pakistani Fighting dogs) have been imported and tried in Japan at one time or another both against the Tosa and the APBT and have had little to no success. Clearly, the Tosa and APBT are the breed of choice for Japanese dogmen and it is rare or almost unheard of to see any other type of breed in any kind of sanctioned tournament. Both of these breeds have been bred solely for its effectiveness in the ring for many generations and are continued to be bred this way today. Today, there are basically two types of matches in Japan. One is the traditional match: usually held in a raised platform shaped as an Octagon. These usually have a time limit of 30 minutes but with some locations like Okinawa have longer time limits at 40 minutes. The time limit is in place so that they allow the number of dogs that are entered at a tournament to take place at a steady pace. Additionally, only males are usually allowed to fight in the tournaments. In this type of match there are usually 3 judges that rule and sit on top of the ring, the owners are not allowed to be in the ring and must direct their dogs from the top of the ring and are not allowed to touch the dogs at any time. Once the dogs are released and after the first min. or two, all growling or vocalization from the dogs must cease. (they should be in holds by that time anyway!) The first dog that starts to whine, cry, growl, bark, etc..(seri) is the loser. Also the dog that starts to turn away from it's opponent (3 steps to be exact) (hashiri) is also the loser, jumping the ring or attempts to leave the fight is also the loser. Basically, the rules are set in place that a dog with questionable braveness has all the opportunity to leave the fight to determine the braver of the two. A dog that does not show any signs of quitting could lose if he is simply overpowered and it becomes a one way fight. When the duration of the bout gets longer, and both opponents start to become winded, a winner can be determined by the dog that is in holds and the loser that is out of holds for a length of time. (Osaekomi) If both dogs are winded and out of holds, the dog that is standing at the 3 minute time limit will be the winner. If both dogs are still fighting and in holds at the 30 minute mark then it will be a tie. At the 30 minute mark, if one of the dogs is out of holds, or lying down and the other one is relentlessly attacking, then the one still fighting will be the winner. By far, the traditional match is more common and popular throughout Japan. Tosas are the most commonly used breed for this type of match, however there are large numbers of APBTs that also participate in these matches, especially in Okinawa. In most of these traditional tournaments, there are 4 weight classes: light weight.: 30kg min.- 40kg (kogata), middle weight: 40kg - 45kg (chugata), heavy weight: 45kg-55kg (oogata), super heavy weight 55kg - 65kg (cho-oogata), and unlimited class over 65kg (musabetsu). Of course, some of the APBT clubs that participate in traditional matches have their own sets of weight classes. Most dogs are matched by weight and it is uncommon for dogs to be matched from different weight classes. However, a 30kg dog may be matched to a 39kg dog or a 45kg dog into a 55kg dog, as long as they fit in the particular weight classes.

The second type of match is similar or almost identical to Western style "scratch and turn" Cajun rules and these matches are held in a "box" that is roughly 16ft. by 16ft. or a little larger. "Scratch" lines are taped to the carpet at two corners and the dogs are released at the corners. In this type of match there is no time limit and dogs can make any vocalizations during the match. Typically, one of the dogs will begin to turn after some duration "to look for a way out" and then the dog that makes the turn will have to scratch first. The dogs will be gathered-up by the handlers and with the aide of a break-stick will be parted and sent back to it's respective corners and turned around with its face to the corner, a wet sponge is usually used to refresh the dog for a few seconds, the dog making the scratch will be faced towards it's opponent after about 10 sec. in the corner and the dog will have to come across the ring and grab hold of the opponent at the other corner. Failure to do so in 10sec. will be a loss. After the first completed scratch of the first dog that turns, the next scratch will be the other dog even if the same dog turns a second time. From this point on each dog takes it's turn "scratching" after each turn is called by the judge. A dog that fails to scratch is the loser. In these matches, the owner or handler is in the ring with his/her dog but cannot touch him, except when called to do so by the judge during a scratch. This style of match has been in existence in Japan for about 40yrs or so perhaps since the reintroduction of game bred APBTs around that time. Today, most of the scratch and turn matches are held exclusively using APBTs, though there are some that use small Tosas at the heavy weight class of the scratch and turn tournaments with success. On the same token there are large APBTs that have been successful in the lightweight division of the Tosa style traditional matches.

Dog fighting tournaments, whether its the Tosa style or APBT style matches are held in a very organized matter with lot's of planning involved. Participants pay dues to a fighting association and dogs are matched fairly and evenly as possible. Since it is considered a sport, gambling on the dogs are not allowed and stiff punishments can be handed down by fighting clubs to its members not adhering to its rules. This also includes abuse or neglect of a fighting dog by its members. Keeping any dog in Japan is expensive, let alone large fighting dogs, and usually those who are "financially responsible" are capable of owning and participating in these activities. Incidents of fighting dogs injuring people are extremely rare in Japan compared to the West where breed bans namely the APBT has occurred in numerous countries and towns. One of the main factors of this is; it is rare for Japanese dogfighters to keep and breed Tosas and APBTs that are man-aggressive. Fighting dogs in general including those of the west need to be handled by people during a match and a dangerous dog is usually not allowed to participate for very long. Tosas and pits in Japan are rarely used for any sort of protection work and are not considered a good choice as they are usually naturally man friendly and submissive by nature. Not to mention having a trained man-biting 100lb+ Tosa is a little overkill to use against humans. This sort of "hobby" if it were to get popular in Japan (as it is in the U.S. and Europe) would not only jeopardize the whole sport of dogfighting but would definitely lead to the ban of Tosas or APBTs in Japan. It is my belief that the bad press associated with the APBT in the West stems from the recent popularity of APBT by non dogfighting enthusiasts bent on having a macho dog to intimidate everybody in the neighborhood, man-aggressive dogs that would have been "naturally" culled by responsible dogmen.
 
Sure and they are the ones that start how ole' yeller came charging in and tore up "two" pit bulls that was bent on killing their small puppy. I don't believe 90% of what people say about this stuff. Telling somebody to get some big hairy french dog to protect them from raging pitbulls is just stupid. Sure that's gonna be the trick. If you know about dogs at all this kind of advice is merely the owner of an breed of dog trying to stoke his dog's image. If real pit bulls did attack you'd be better off shooting them or cutting their throats than relying on some dog to save the day. That's what I'd do.

yea, there is more to you than meets the eye, eh?

you want to claim that pits are the bestest pets ever in one breath and then claim they are the most dangerous and Ferocious in the other,...............

gotta make up your mind sweetie............................
 
yea, there is more to you than meets the eye, eh?

you want to claim that pits are the bestest pets ever in one breath and then claim they are the most dangerous and Ferocious in the other,...............

gotta make up your mind sweetie............................
They are good pets, if you take the time to learn about them. They are also bred to pit fight, so people that don't want to take care of them and control them shouldn't own them. My mind is made up. To deny the breed's history is stupid. Pit bulls where developed to pit fight, but they also where not developed to attack humans. Now stop posting to me! I'm done, bug other posters! If you don't agree with me I no longer care.
 
They are good pets, if you take the time to learn about them. They are also bred to pit fight, so people that don't want to take care of them and control them shouldn't own them. My mind is made up. To deny the breed's history is stupid. Pit bulls where developed to pit fight, but they also where not developed to attack humans. Now stop posting to me! I'm done, bug other posters! If you don't agree with me I no longer care.

This is ridiculous.

Please cut and paste more to clarify your point.
 
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