Paypal friends and family and does paypal cover knives if lost or scammed

on_the_edge said:
Capone was worth it. Unless you're up to a lot more than is assumed, you're not worth busting.
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Have a family member (by marriage) that got 5 years months federal prison over allegations of billing fraud.

Feds spent years on the case. In 5 years of billing they audited, they charged 10 counts. 6 were dismissed. 4 convicted.

Cost him his business practice....years and years and years of legal fees...Federal felony conviction, and a 5 year federal prison sentence...... (though later reduced ro 90 days after looking back at articles).

It happens!!

(Edited after going back and looking at articles)
 
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Bigfattyt said:
Have a family member (by marriage) that got 12 months federal prison over a $6 miss bill!!

Feds spent years on the case. In 7 years of billing they audited, they found a single bill that was $6 over the amount.

Cost him his business practice....years and years and years of legal fees...Federal felony conviction, and a 12 month federal prison sentence......

It happens!!
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That's terrifying and some king John sending enforcers to villages to shake people down type shit. Yikes.

The 10's of thousands of irs agents they are hiring probably won't be used for auditing people though. 😑
 
kreole said:
If it's a loss of money overall, they could attack it, and it wouldn't be applied in a way where the origin site/market is needed. It'd be applied by some algorithm. It would probably be pretty accurate just to flag accounts with some fixed number of one-off transactions via F&F on a regular basis or within a short period.

Have 10+ F&F payments to unique people per week/month/whatever? That's probably not legitimate usage. Or does the account repeatedly use F&F but few to little are repeat between the same two people (high % first time connections)? Again, probably not all legit F&F. And if you share your contacts list with PayPal, they could auto flag you if most F&F payments made to people outside your contacts list and be right it's abuse. If F&F is for payments to friends and family, it's not hard to design tests to flag accounts not doing that, no site needed.
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I agree it shouldn’t be abused, I just don’t think BladeForums is a significant part of the decision to discontinue it. If they discontinue f&f, people will go elsewhere to send their family money… and they don’t want that.
 
Bigfattyt said:
Have a family member (by marriage) that got 12 months federal prison over a $6 miss bill!!

Feds spent years on the case. In 7 years of billing they audited, they found a single bill that was $6 over the amount.

Cost him his business practice....years and years and years of legal fees...Federal felony conviction, and a 12 month federal prison sentence......

It happens!!
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I have a feeling there is a lot more to that story
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I have a feeling there is a lot more to that story
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Yes... it is much more complex than a quick summary.

I went back and looked at a few of the articles.

they were absolutely certain he had overbilled Medicaid/Medicare.... charging for proceedutes not completed....they just knew it....

They initially filed 10 counts. After argumenr the judge dismissed 6 of those counts. At trial he was convicted of 4 counts (they alleged he billed for fillings not completed...the state proceeded without putting the patients on the stand, or being able to find them at all....and convicted of 4 counts.... involving two patients.



Post trial, his attorney was able to finally track one of them down, and x-rays showed conclusively, that the fillings were completed, and evident on the x-rays.


He motioned for a new trial, showing 3 of the 4 allegations by the prosecutors were demonstrative false.


Statute of limitations was only 5 years (I looked again...not 7).

30 years in practice. Never had any other run-ins with the law....

He lost his business, home, marriage, and suffered several strokes during the process....

His initial sentence was 5 years. His sentence was reduced from 5 years to 90 days...
(This info was from articles)



I don't know the end result of the last conviction, or motion for retrial..


I will say it ruined his practice and that of another independent dentist in his building.

I am a defense attorney (though uninvolved at all in this case).
I have 13 years of criminal defense practice, across 14 or so jurisdictions. I have seen countless examples of government corruption, incompetence, and out right organized criminal behaivor across all jurisdictions I have practiced in.

I've seen entire police departments replaced top to bottom....

I've seen state crime lab experts lie under oath in thousands of cases (and be allowed to walk away from their job with no criminal charges, though every wrongfully convicted person could not get the time they lost back)...

When I tell you that prosecutors and law enforcement will grab a hold of a mistaken theory of a case...and spend the rest of their lives denying they could possibly have been wrong...I am not speaking from a lack of experience.
 
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Bigfattyt said:
Yes...they were absolutely certain he had overbilled Medicaid/Medicare....they just knew it....

In 7 years of records, for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of billings, they were only ever able to find a single miss-bill...total value of the "fraud" was $6......

But, that bill was mailed to the neighboring city...across state lines....

A miss bill, done by a billing secretary...for which the business owner was responsible.

30 years in practice. Never had any other run-ins with the law....

He lost his business, home, marriage, and suffered several strokes during the process....
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Is there a news article that covered this? I have a feeling if this was accurate, it would be all over national media.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Is there a news article that covered this? I have a feeling if this was accurate, it would be all over national media.
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Right. Because our media is working to help the people and is always honest when it comes to the government. Anyway, not a conversation that should derail the point of this thread. Which is PayPal predominantly.
 
shinyedges said:
Right. Because our media is working to help the people and is always honest when it comes to the government. Anyway, not a conversation that should derail the point of this thread. Which is PayPal predominantly.
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If someone went to federal prison for a year for $6 in fraud, yes, it would be headline news.
 
As shiny said, the $6 case really isn't what this thread is about, even if it is very interesting. It could easily hijack this thread, which has it's own importance.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
If someone went to federal prison for a year for $6 in fraud, yes, it would be headline news.
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I went back and looked at the articles. 10 counts, 6 dismissed 4 counts found guilty at trial...after finding one of the two patients and taking high definition x-rays, his attorney filed for a new trial. The other pateint could not be found.....

The $6 was a number repeated in family conversation.....

I could not find the $ amount when I looked at the articles.

I found 3 articles, one with the initial charges, one with what he was convicted of, and one about the motion for new trial based on finding one of the two patients for examination post trial.
The second patient was never found for examination.

Edited the original post to fix errors...


I won't derail the thread further with example after example of miscarriage of justice a d outright criminal behaivor by those tasked to enforce the law.
 
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