People who blatantly and fraudulently sell knives as hand made when they are blanks..

[wroughndt]

Where is the "like" button for Spark's post?

Under "paid subscription"

 

[Bigfatts]

Under "paid subscription"

That made me laugh SO hard!

 

[philllll]

Under "paid subscription"

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Ruzster]

Thanks, BF/Spark for allowing/encouraging discussions about knives and knife-making even when controversial. I, personally, (and I never thought of myself as easily duped) ever contemplated the possibility that a "custom" knife maker was using pre-manufactured blanks and not stating such up-front. Personally, I see this in the exact same vain as info about other knife "sellers/SCAMMERS" that give the knife buying and using community a reason to wonder if his/her infatuation with knives can be taken advantage of.

I especially love the "I don't like to send out sharp knives due to safety concerns" - LOL! Isn't that akin to making a gun and not including a trigger? Yea, hate to make a tool that does what's intended to do. What a crock 'o sheet! Thanks again BF for making me a more savy consumer. I sincerely appreciate your efforts.

 

[flatblackcapo]

MM: What’s special about your knives?
CW: I’m always careful answering that question, because I don’t want to come off as a braggart. But we put so much time and attention into these things before they even get pretty. The angles we grind at, the bevels on the cutting edge, the heat treatment, the steel we pick. It’s like the difference between a Kia and a Mercedes. They’ll both do the same job, but one has more time and energy put into it.

Read more: http://www.mademan.com/chris-williams-small-southern-town-big-time-blades/#ixzz2cCnYOcb5

So does he grind them or not ? I am confused.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

So does he grind them or not ? I am confused.

Well it is already given that he uses blanks, and he in no way tried to address or counter the claims stating that his knives are pre-ground. You could assume that he does not, but at this point its still speculation.

That aside, why don't you just ask him?

I am man enough to give any one of you guys my address, phone number, etc and will gladly have you to my shop, or talk to you man to man. I have nothing to hide from you or anyone and am man enough to welcome any of you into my world to see me as a person. I am a good person and not this disrespectful thug many of you seem to be portraying me as. I am sorry if you think/thought otherwise.

 

[scotchleaf]

Ever notice that, often, people who advertise their Christianity as a sales technique tend to be dishonest? I have a stack of bad checks from a "reverend." The little "fish" on the "master blade-smith's" site reminded me of this observation.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

MM: What’s special about your knives?
CW: I’m always careful answering that question, because I don’t want to come off as a braggart. But we put so much time and attention into these things before they even get pretty. The angles we grind at, the bevels on the cutting edge, the heat treatment, the steel we pick. It’s like the difference between a Kia and a Mercedes. They’ll both do the same job, but one has more time and energy put into it

MM: What’s a typical workday like?
CW: There is no typical day for me. I might start out all excited about grinding blades all day and end up on the phone with a chef in Charlotte. We start the machines up before the sun comes up and shut them down after the sun goes down

he certainly likes to pretend that he makes knives. Let's see some videos of him grinding one blade, should be no problem since he is excited to grind all day.

Pretty sad. I wonder what the interviewer would say if he knew the truth.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn Fan]

MM: What’s special about your knives?
CW: I’m always careful answering that question, because I don’t want to come off as a braggart. But we put so much time and attention into these things before they even get pretty. The angles we grind at, the bevels on the cutting edge, the heat treatment, the steel we pick. It’s like the difference between a Kia and a Mercedes. They’ll both do the same job, but one has more time and energy put into it.

In hindsight he probably should have taken the fifth and referred further questions to his Lawyer.

 

[Mack]

Never mind.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Yesterday his Facebook "about" page read :

" He hand makes each knife from blade to sheath and he’s constantly experimenting with new materials, patterns and techniques with the goal of continually improving his products"

today it reads as:

" He’s constantly experimenting with new materials, patterns and techniques with the goal of continually improving his products."

 

[FTR-14c]

I'm just waiting for a simple yes or no to the big question at hand.

 

[ChrisWilliams]

.....



Many thanks to all of you for the commentary. I appreciate and respect each person's opinion and applaud you for the added "publicity" this site has provided us. It has certainly boosted traffic this week through our various portals. What's the old adage...? Its better to be "talked about" than "not talked about at all". This will be my last post to this site as this is ad naseum conversation at this point. Many of you are "requesting this" or "demanding that" and as I clearly said before, if you have specific questions for me, here are 3 ways you can get in touch with me "Live", man to man, not behind an anonymous keyboard. Unlike the few habitual posters in the thread (you know who they are, its the same usernames, over and over and over), I do not have time to sit in front of the computer all hours of the night and day...I actually have work to do...lots of it these days. I have zero time or patience for this unproductive banter. Quite frankly, these "haters" (I think this is proper “forum” lingo) don't pay for my food, they don't pay for my shelter, they don't pay for my obligations, they don't support me in any shape or form...so in reality, I do not owe a single one of them a damn thing...answers, explanations, comments, videos, etc...nothing. For those of you generally interested however in learning more about my products, or myself, I do welcome any inquiries by the means listed below:

) email - chris(AT)williamsknife.com (written to avoid spammers)
2) telephone - 843.559.790 three (written to avoid telemarketers)
3) 3527 Kitford Road, Johns Island, SC 29455...please, please, please...come see me in person!

You can also click the link on my site to get "email updates"...this is the current portal we use to feature new products, talk about new happenings and post pictures and video content. We have been in the process of rebuilding our website completely the last 6 months and it will contain more interactive media for your viewing pleasure as well. So for all you video junkies whining out there, stay tuned, you should be able to get your fix very soon.

As I leave this discussion, I do have one question I would like to pose to the “all knowing, what a “knife company” or “knife maker” should look and operate as, righteous protectors of the public consumer, freedom fighters of goodwill and grammatical absolutism” who have so effortlessly fallen in line behind the voice of their infamous leader, GrizzlyBear.

In referencing the linked screen shot below from the Grizzly Knives & Leather FB Page, knife company of Craig Collier also known on the BladeForums and inside this thread as…GrizzlyBear; and being his main means of marketing, advertising and “telling his story” (I can’t find where any “actual investment has been made” in any website of his own; thus it is my opinion that one would assume with his frequent posts, the referenced FB Page is the main means of marketing himself and his product); AND having select few of you mindlessly jumping on board to support his claims…I simply ask you this,

What kind of message is GrizzlyBear selling? Is he in fact the definition of a "custom knife maker" that himself and the self appointed "chosen ones" are so hard up to defend...heck, even Spark makes a statement in his post about "tak(ing) issue" with what is and what is not a "custom knife maker"? So tell me, what kind of Kool Aid is being served here?

And let me get one thing straight, if in fact, someone was using the same "knife blanks, blades and/or materials" that GrizzlyBear "uses" and "sees everyday" (according to his first post in this thread), then deducing from his "About" statement pictured above...they would be using the "finest of materials available"...

 

[1234]

I'm just waiting for a simple yes or no to the big question at hand.

Seems the question was too hard !

1234,,,

 

[Armithius]

What kind of message is GrizzlyBear selling? Is he in fact the definition of a "custom knife maker" that himself and the self appointed "chosen ones" are so hard up to defend...heck, even Spark makes a statement in his post about "tak(ing) issue" with what is and what is not a "custom knife maker"? So tell me, what kind of Kool Aid is being served here?

And let me get one thing straight, if in fact, someone was using the same "knife blanks, blades and/or materials" that GrizzlyBear "uses" and "sees everyday" (according to his first post in this thread), then deducing from his "About" statement pictured above...they would be using the "finest of materials available"...So to take another line from Spark, "I have to shrug my shoulders at this"...sounds a bit more like a jealous competitor as opposed to a "do-good'er" out to save the uneducated consumer to me...but that is entirely just my opinion.

I don't see anywhere in that description where Grizzly claims to forge and/or grind his own blades, so...

Furthermore, I suppose you don't have to answer to us, but don't you think it'd help your business if you spent less time insulting us, and more time answering a simple yes or no question? I mean, I don't own a business, but calling potential customers uneducated is probably not the best business plan. Not to mention the bad news travels farther faster than good news. But that's just my opinion.

 

[knife hunter]

...........

 

[fadugleman]

Now I feel this thread has some better substance since someone has had the chance to examine a chris williams knife.

 

[Spark]

I'm confused by Chris Williams latest post. Am I wrong, or did he spend more time attacking GrizzlyBear than addressing any of the topics that have been brought up here?

I mean, what's the point of taking a screen shot of someone else's page in a thread about your products? Can someone explain this to me?

From what I can tell, that's an iPhone screenshot. Every iPhone I've ever owned had a camera on it. Chris Williams can clear all this up right now by walking out to his shop and taking a picture of a couple work in progress blade blanks prior to their bevels being ground. IMHO that'd dispel any claims about him using premade blanks purchased from a wholesaler for whichever model. Why go to the effort of typing all that up when a simple picture would handily blow any of these allegations out of the water? I don't get it.

I don't know, maybe I'm just not understanding this whole thing. The finished products that Williams Knife Company puts out look amazing. If they are hand made, it should be simple to show how those blades were made by hand. Am I wrong?

If someone is making claims of (to paraphrase) "Chris Williams is a phony" or "Chris Williams puts out garbage" or "Williams Knife Company is based on fraud" then those are very serious claims and not something to be taken lying down. For whatever reason Chris Williams has stated he's not going to address it here. I just don't understand why he'd make the effort to type out a long post and not dispel these issues.

I guess we all have a lot to learn here.

 

[actionyak]

I was at a local watering hole frequented by some old school fisherman recently. One had a large fixed blade sheath knife in his back pocket. Being the knife nut I am I asked him about it. He was proud to show it to me, and was quick to point out that the knife maker was just a few seats down. I was surprised to find a maker local to me and we struck up a conversation. He said he did all the work in his local shop, and I asked him if he did his own grinding and heat treat and the whole process.

He said no, he ordered blanks from suppliers and touched up the grinds and put on custom handles and polished them and sharpened them up. I do not remember his name and I never bothered to look up what he sold, but the honesty was most appreciated and I respected his business for it.

This thread has been incredibly informative and useful for anyone that is interested in a true custom knife. Thanks for letting it stay up, Spark.

 

[Drew Riley]

I'm confused by Chris Williams latest post. Am I wrong, or did he spend more time attacking GrizzlyBear than addressing any of the topics that have been brought up here?

I mean, what's the point of taking a screen shot of someone else's page in a thread about your products? Can someone explain this to me?

From what I can tell, that's an iPhone screenshot. Every iPhone I've ever owned had a camera on it. Chris Williams can clear all this up right now by walking out to his shop and taking a picture of a couple work in progress blade blanks prior to their bevels being ground. IMHO that'd dispel any claims about him using premade blanks purchased from a wholesaler for whichever model. Why go to the effort of typing all that up when a simple picture would handily blow any of these allegations out of the water? I don't get it.

I don't know, maybe I'm just not understanding this whole thing. The finished products that Williams Knife Company puts out look amazing. If they are hand made, it should be simple to show how those blades were made by hand. Am I wrong?

If someone is making claims of (to paraphrase) "Chris Williams is a phony" or "Chris Williams puts out garbage" or "Williams Knife Company is based on fraud" then those are very serious claims and not something to be taken lying down. For whatever reason Chris Williams has stated he's not going to address it here. I just don't understand why he'd make the effort to type out a long post and not dispel these issues.

I guess we all have a lot to learn here.

This is exactly what I was thinking.
That said (and perhaps my reading comprehension needs work) I'm not sure that I've read anywhere in Mr. Williams' lengthy responses that he is actually claiming to grind any of this own blades. He actually stated (perhaps somewhat craftily) that he does in fact use CNC'd blanks in a "portion" of his work.

Now what is a portion? Well, it could be that it's a full, 100% portion. Maybe it's 90%. Maybe it's 10%. Who knows? Only Mr. Williams can specifcally answer that, but so far he has chosen not to.

He also claims to be an investor in several machining operations, again implying the use of a "manufactured" blank. To "invest" simply means that you're spending money (or buying a product) with hopes of gaining a future return on said money.
If I buy a manufactured blank, whether it's from Jantz, Texas Knifemaker Supply, or the machine shops that may supply them, and if I have intention of selling it for a profit once I slap a handle and/or sheath on it, then technically I have "invested" into the aforementioned supplier's product.

It could also simply be that he has a contract with the same manufacturer(s) that supply Jantz, Texas KMS, USA knifemaker, etc...
It's obvious that he puts out a large number of knives (somebody already quoted something like 75/week), so perhaps he has even negotiated a specific steel type (ATS-34 as opposed to 440C) based on a minumum purchase of so many knife blanks.

I also can believe he had designed the oyster knife in question. Many makers contract their own designs to machine shops. This may even include beveling and/or sharpening.

To me, it looks like certain "answers", while being given a lot of words, just didn't have much substance or detail, especially in relation to specific questions being asked. In fact, there seems to be some beating around the bush.

Personally, I don't have a specific dog in this fight, I don't know Mr. Williams, and I've never seen or handled (no pun intendid) his work. For the record, I see nothing intrinsically wrong with being a "handle smith" or selling a manufactured product. The crux of the matter at hand, however, is simply whether or not a spefic product (or line of products) is being misrepresented, and even if the seller himself (I.E., Mr. Williams) is being misrepresented, whether it's a) as a master blade smith, or b) as a fraud.

Mr. Williams now has the opportunity to directly answer this community as a whole, regarding the specific questions mentioned, but so far seems to be coming up a little vague.