People who blatantly and fraudulently sell knives as hand made when they are blanks..

[Ocelot85]

Chris, no one here would be upset if they thought that you where paying a machine shop to cut blanks for you. They're upset because there is a fair amount of evidence that you're simply buying pre-cut and ground blades and using them for your own work and then advertising that your knives are 100% handmade and selling them for ridiculously high prices.

Disclaimer Statement: All of my posts made in this thread are simply my own opinion, thoughts, criticisms and speculation on the subject matter presented. In no way do I intend to state anything as a matter of fact inwhich could be misconstrued as slander, libel, or defamation in regards to Chris Williams and Williams Knife Co.

 

[monger4142]

Here's some more information. I apologize for my angry response to this thread earlier, it's important to look through the facts.

Here's a dealer selling one of his knives

http://www.sirjacks.com/edisto-oyster-knife-in-black-cherry-burl/

"An oyster knife of superlative quality, the Edisto oyster knife is handcrafted by master blade smith Chris Williams of Williams Knife Company. Award winning, the Edisto oyster knife is celebrated for both its design and exceptional craftsmanship. Forged from stainless steel featuring precious black cherry burl wood inlay, genuine abalone trim, and brass pins. Packaged in a protective leather sheath with belt loop.
An heirloom quality piece designed for rugged use shucking oysters, the Edisto oyster knife is truly the premiere oyster knife on the market. Limited production handmade entirely in South Carolina. "

Similar blank: Although not the same blank, it has very similar specs besides being a hidden tang. is the pictured knife at that dealer made from a blank?

http://usaknifemaker.com/kit-knives...blanks/oyster-knife-blade-001-440c-steel.html

Chris, Thank you for your thoughtful and measured response. I appreciate it, and respect you for it.

Abstract, I see you used your very first post to for a long quote we had all just read and then ask one short redundant question.
(welcome to Blade Forums by the way). If you had taken the time to do some research you would have found one of the sources of Chris' blades, and that was found very easily right under everyone's nose. Someone says he uses Jantz blades, someone else says they are exactly like So and So knife supply, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. Well most of you are wrong, so go do your research again......like I did.

Now before some of you short timers start calling me Fan Boy, let me inform you that I never even heard of the Williams Knife Company until this thread started. The thread piqued my interest and I did my research. What I found is a sharp young man who has a handle on how to create and run a successful business, something it would appear that many of you are jealous of.

Some of your (collectively) greatest "Heroes" create their knives (that have the fan base near orgasm) the very same way Williams creates his. He uses technology to increase his ability to put out good product. Yeah, GOOD PRODUCT!!! unless you are ready to say Jantz, or any of the other supplier put out crap in their kit knives. I really doubt you could buy the same blades Williams uses from one of the suppliers because.......well do your research like I did.

In parting let me say, I'm 80 years old and I've been around BF quite a while. It takes a pretty smart man to piss me off (I just laugh and ignore the rest of them). Don't waste you time flaming me because I won't waste mine answering you. Tonight when you go to bed, let you mind wonder and imagine what it would be like if YOU had a successful business.......(that may be too much for some of you)..... and a bunch of self appointed "Protectors of the Buying Public" were for no really good reason trying to destroy you.

Paul

I think it's clear that this man has deceived honest dealers and customers. It's a selfish act and there is nothing here to be jealous of. Your "research" is your first impression of what seems to be a skilled con artist. In my mind this would be akin to buying factory made leather sheaths, staining them with dye, and claiming they're your sole proprietorship handmade work. You wouldn't find it wrong for another sheath maker to do so?

I don't think there's anything wrong with making knives from blanks and selling them, there's obviously not a thing wrong with it. However, when you lie and deceive your customers it's bad business.

again, sorry for my rash earlier response. I still stand by those words.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

I agree with the post philllll made up above. For Chris Williams to address the individuals on this forum was the proper thing to do on his part and deserves a respectful and mature response in return. That aside, many things remain largely unanswered and sheathmaker's post was quite vague.

On a note to sheathmaker's post, what he said was true as in many popular knife makers use cnc'ed blanks as well--although in some cases cnc'ed or milled by themselves and the designs, often their own. With that given, they still make a great product, build a market for it, and sell it as such. The difference between such makers and Chris Williams is the issue of transparency and largely, the main issue brought up in this thread. Now I respect a man, especially one who can bring about their own successful business. Many individuals in my family, including my parents have started their own small businesses and I'm fully aware of the of the investment in time and money that it takes to even be marginally successful. I don't think any of us (most) wants to put someone out of business, especially one whom has a family to care for, but on the flip side I would say most people aren't content with the situation as is.

My idea for a resolve? Make it clear, and not just a subliminal message, on Chris William's website that he purchases pre-cut (and pre-ground?) blanks and builds his knives from there. As long as that is out there and clear for everyone of his current or potential customers to see, this resolve sounds good to me. As for the pricing on William's knives? Price them anyway you want. If you can sell your knives at $600, good for you. Its your business, your knives, I'm not here to dictate what you have to do. You could just end it here with your last post, but that still leaves these issues largely unresolved not to mention offensive to those whom build their knives from scratch. Unlike what you said,

As a result many of them reap countless rewards and vast sums of money per knife.

many of these knifemakers do not reap countless rewards in respect to the time they invest and do not necessarily earn vast sums of money per knife.

One other note:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a sizable cost difference between a custom ordered CNC blanks as opposed to an already made in-house design?



- BN

 

[monger4142]

Here's another big one:

His comment found on a website:

"Sure, I'm biased but I've got opinions! (ha). After several months of working with Charleston Angler staff and their guides, we came up with this design: http://www.thecharlestonangler... It's called the Redfish and not only is it an excellent cutting tool but it gets high marks from boat captains and mates on many of the sportfishers out of Charleston."

http://funcfish.com/2012/01/in-need-of-a-good-fishing-knife/

He links here

http://www.thecharlestonangler.com/product/c90/f3402.html


And here's the blank, $15.

http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/ss164.htm

So Chris claims to design a knife by collaborating with fictional people, buys the blade blank, and then slaps handles on it. Just a big shame guys, I know you want to take the high road and defend him... but the facts are right here. What I would like to know is what the dealers selling these knives think about the design process. It seems he's deceived them as well.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Here's another big one:

His comment found on a website:

"Sure, I'm biased but I've got opinions! (ha). After several months of working with Charleston Angler staff and their guides, we came up with this design: http://www.thecharlestonangler... It's called the Redfish and not only is it an excellent cutting tool but it gets high marks from boat captains and mates on many of the sportfishers out of Charleston."

http://funcfish.com/2012/01/in-need-of-a-good-fishing-knife/

He links here

http://www.thecharlestonangler.com/product/c90/f3402.html


And here's the blank, $15.

http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/ss164.htm

So Chris claims to design a knife by collaborating with fictional people, buys the blade blank, and then slaps handles on it. Just a big shame guys, I know you want to take the high road and defend him... but the facts are right here. What I would like to know is what the dealers selling these knives think about the design process. It seems he's deceived them as well.

Not a dime's worth of diffence, "design"-wise.

BUT

BLANK:

Sleek, slim, graceful design makes this a useful addition to the sportsmans knife collection. Gut hook is small and sharp. Overall length is 7 3/8", blade is 3 1/2" ground from 1/8" 440-C stainless steel. 1/8" pin holes. This knife looks great when completed with 3/16" mini corby rivets. Available sheath KT104.

WILLIAMS KNIFE:

REDFISH KNIFE - WILLIAMS KNIFE
The Redfish Knife is made exclusively for the Charleston Angler.
Hand made from different exotic materials and the highest quality 440c stainless steel, the Redfish Knife is a great way to match class with purpose.

Dimensions:
-Overall Length: 7.25"
-Blade Length: 4"
-Handle Length: 3.25"

 

[monger4142]

Another similarity, if you look at where the jantz handle pin hole is drilled, that's where his handle pin is. They look proportionate.. maybe Chris can explain

Here's another knife: $750

http://williamsknife.com/store-items/black-mingo/

and the blank: $115

http://www.alabamadamascussteel.com/servlet/Detail?no=269

from info here

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10819-Heard-of-this-guy

Master bladesmith Chris Williams....

 

[mr_anderson]

For some reason I keep wanting to sing "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong"

 

[stonesell]

This is a very educational thread that GrizzlyBear started. I never realized that some people were mass marketing Jantz blade blanks as custom knives. It is important for the truth to be known, so that buyers do not distrust the authentic knifemakers, and also, so that this does not reflect poorly on the knfe industry as a whole. Business and free enterprise are great, but we as the end consumers have the right to know the truth about every detail of the product that we are purchasing.

 

[flatblackcapo]

Currently, Williams Knife Co. creates 50 to 75 knives a week

Quoted from here
That is a whole lot of knifes to "hand make" in one week
How about some answers Chris?

 

[Bladenoobie1]

Well it seems that Chris hasn't been online to see the recent flood of posts. Anyhow I'm not sure how this is going to work out. I already stated what I though would be an acceptable resolve, though not necessarily what everyone may want, what I thought to be most feasible in respect to both the community and Chris Williams.

The thing is, what do you want to do with this whole ordeal given what we know if no action should be done by Chris? (most people on this thread seem to agree that his slight alteration of wording on his website does not resolve the situation)

 

[richard j]

nevermind

 

[Atlas Knife Company]

Sounds like he is claiming that he is an investor in the companies that produce the blanks for Jantz, USAKMS, etc. Does anyone know one way or the other if it is possible that he was involved with the design of those blanks? If he did, indeed, create those blanks then this discussion takes a different course. Does anyone have an older, pre-2010 Jantz catalog and can verify these designed existed before he turned full time in 2010, or perhaps 2008 when he make his first etcher?

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

his victims probably don't read bladeforums.

Nobody would buy his "handle-smithed" kit knives if he was honest about what he's selling. Certainly not at those prices.

I suspect he will just disappear from the forum and continue the lie. it isn't like he will ever learn to grind or forge. That would take effort and equipment.

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

Great post Rat.
One would think that through the natural progression of things that he would get bored making the same thing over and over and attempt to make something from scratch. I doubt he owns a metal cutting band saw since none of his knives have metal bolsters or guards.

 

[philllll]

.....

 

[Morrow]

@ ChrisWilliams

Stop reporting posts.....we get it. You've already contacted the site owner and he'll decide how this will go. I'm locking this thread for now.

 

[Spark]

I've been contacted by phone and email by Chris Williams regarding this thread.

Email 1:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to respectfully request the removal of the company name, domain name, links to, and any related mentions of rights reserved and protected property in regards to Williams Knife, williamsknife.com, etc. Specifically post number 6, 11, 26 and 27 with hyperlinks to rights reserved content, use of mark and protected property. These can be found in the following link. While we certainly applaud and support our right to freedom of speech, it is of our opinion that the content included on this site in the below mentioned link associated with our registered and protected property and marks is not in line with our terms of use for said property and marks.

I have made an attempt kindly to neutralize this discussion to no avail. At this point, I am literally being attached with accusations to people and businesses that I derive means to support my family. The fortunate thing is that these individuals have foolishly transmitted their personal information, location and contact info in their harassing on my various portals.

My next step will be to begin legal process to have each and every individual and or organization that participates or hosts this damaging and liable slanderous behavior.

I would greatly appreciate any moderation, removal, discouragement of harassment, etc. you can provide. If any individual believes I will stand back and let a community of uneducated individuals on the matter slanderously destroy my livelihood, they are in for formal complaint surprises. Answering suits is not anything that anyone wants to do. People, organizations, sites, etc.

Many thanks for your assistance and prompt attention to this matter. Enough is enough. Let them be foolish on their own dime, please encourage a space and entity where this is not a practice.

Best, Chris Williams

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...sell-knives-as-hand-made-when-they-are-blanks

and email 2

I am attempting a second time to request removal and a CEASE AND DESIST of the following post due to numerous violations of your posted and standard User Agreement and extreme liable and reckless defamation to the brand. The link to the post can be found here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...nives-as-hand-made-when-they-are-blanks/page4

There are numerous uses, links, redirects and personal statements to rights reserved and copyright protected property throughout this post. In no way has Williams Knife Co and/or any of its affiliates given BladeForums.com and/or Twelve Bravo Marketing, LLC the express permission to use and or host this material. The slanderous and liable damages that are occurring as such have been clearly and precisely documented throughout the time since the violation and unauthorized use of this protected property has begun. Again, I'm writing to formally request a CEASE AND DESIST of hosting such material and that any and all references, links, and posts containing such be removed.

My next course of action will be to pursue a formal complaint that will require legal answer pursuant to Section 230 of The Communications Decency Act of 1996 that clearly states that once notified of such unauthorized activity, it becomes the liability of the ISP and host/provider to remove said content or forfeit their claim to no liability when complaints are filed.

My intent is not to cause you the provider any trouble, and politely request your assistance prior to moving to a formal legal, more costly course of action. I realize you are not the content creator on your hosted platform, but instead just that...the platform to host. It would resolve this matter of said complaint with your cooperation in the removal of the post linked above.

Your prompt attention to this matter is humbledly requested and greatly appreciated. Manh thanks!

Sincerely,
Chris Williams
Williams Knife Co.

Mr. Williams contacted me personally and directly threatened to sue regarding this issue. Let me make this clear. BladeForums.com is not responsible for the opinions of third parties who use this site, nor do we endorse any statement made by third parties for accuracy or content.

At the same time, I take a really dim view on extortion attempts. When Mr. Williams contacted me via phone claiming he was being libeled, needing to protect his copyrights, etc, I informed him to send me a copy of what he was talking about via registered mail and I'd review it. If he was wanting customer information to pursue a legal case, he'd need to have a subpoena. That was prior to reading this thread.

I am reviewing this thread and will make a followup post after I've had a chance to examine it in detail.

 

[Spark]

User "Chris Williams" has reported the following posts in this thread:

Reported Post:

Example:

The May Skinner is the Hondo Caper blade sold by Texasknife.com

The Chechessee is the Trout Filet sold by Jantzsupply.com

The Cooper is the Keen Edge Chef's blade sold by Jantz.

The Congaree is the Keen Edge Santoku blade sold by Jantz.

The Tugaloo is the Keen Edge Paring blade sold by Jantz.

The Sandy is the Prestige bread knife sold by Jantz.

You get the picture.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response:I'm not seeing any use of "related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" in the reported post. As such, the post will not be removed.

Reported Post:

http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/ss606.htm

http://williamsknife.com/store-items/sandy/

Same exact length, look identical as well. Pretty sad.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains a hyperlink to http://williamsknife.com/store-items/sandy/
Please see https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP with regards to links to websites from other websites. The post will not be removed.

Reported Post:

The site is www.williamsknife.com

Mods, if this is breaking any rules, please do what you have to do.

The only evidence I have is that I can pick out and name nearly every single knife he shows for sale by the name they are sold under on various sites.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response:The post contains a hyperlink to www.williamsknife.com
Please see https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP with regards to links to websites from other websites. The post will not be removed.

Reported Post:

My kapersky blocked the williams knife website...on my smart phone. Which is weird because it blocks about nothing including spamware filled nudie type sites and worse.

So I can't see the knives, but at those prices y'all keep talkin about.....out of my range anyways.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response:I'm not seeing any use of "related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" in the reported post. As such, the post will not be removed.

I Just called him out on his Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/39862302
The whole video is him shaping a handle lol!

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: The post contains a link to a Vimeo video by Williams Knife Co. Please see https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP with regards to transformative use & commentary on copyrighted work as well as deep linking & quotation.

If you pause his video at 1:57 you'll see that the blade was already sharpened before he began shaping the handle, doesn't that seem a bit illogical?

[video=youtube;zSTEqHxh3fI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSTEqHxh3fI[/video]

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed. See above for references.

I was looking at a recent Blade magazine and look what I stumbled on, a full page ad for this guys "work" :barf:

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: The post contains user generated content, specifically repreduction of a print advertisement for the purpose of commentary & criticism. Please see applicable "Fair Use" law. The post will not be removed.

Well I don't think much of his customer base is from this forum. The awareness is great; however, I don't think it will do anything. I suppose we could continue to message him or post on his Facebook page but I don't see it adding up for anything.

That aside, my question is what do we really want, given what we know about his business? Publicly shun him? Ask him to be more transparent in his business? In other words, how do you want him to reciprocate for his actions? And is it even reasonable, viable, or possible to enforce such action? I too am a bit distraught upon finding out about this, but at the moment this thread is only serving a room to vent out your anger or displeasure with William's Knife co action's.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed.

In my opinion he should be called out for the fraud that he is. He is a phony knifemaker who has been given recognition in the media for accomplishments that are fabricated. He does not make knives, he puts handles on kit knives. He should have to apologize to every customer he has ever sold a knife to and offer them a refund. If he wants to continue selling kit knives that is fine by me but they should be clearly identified as such. I saw a thread on another forum that he sends out a card with the knives that says something like "I don't like to send out very sharp blades for safety reasons". It seems he doesn't even like to sharpen the blade blanks.

I might be a little bit bitter about this issue because I think I was sold a kit knife by another maker. Regardless he is taking advantage of people and should be stopped.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed.

(Part 1 of 2)

 

[Spark]

Part 2 of the reports:

Here's some more information. I apologize for my angry response to this thread earlier, it's important to look through the facts.

Here's a dealer selling one of his knives

http://www.sirjacks.com/edisto-oyster-knife-in-black-cherry-burl/

"An oyster knife of superlative quality, the Edisto oyster knife is handcrafted by master blade smith Chris Williams of Williams Knife Company. Award winning, the Edisto oyster knife is celebrated for both its design and exceptional craftsmanship. Forged from stainless steel featuring precious black cherry burl wood inlay, genuine abalone trim, and brass pins. Packaged in a protective leather sheath with belt loop.
An heirloom quality piece designed for rugged use shucking oysters, the Edisto oyster knife is truly the premiere oyster knife on the market. Limited production handmade entirely in South Carolina. "

Similar blank: Although not the same blank, it has very similar specs besides being a hidden tang. is the pictured knife at that dealer made from a blank?

http://usaknifemaker.com/kit-knives...blanks/oyster-knife-blade-001-440c-steel.html



I think it's clear that this man has deceived honest dealers and customers. It's a selfish act and there is nothing here to be jealous of. Your "research" is your first impression of what seems to be a skilled con artist. In my mind this would be akin to buying factory made leather sheaths, staining them with dye, and claiming they're your sole proprietorship handmade work. You wouldn't find it wrong for another sheath maker to do so?

I don't think there's anything wrong with making knives from blanks and selling them, there's obviously not a thing wrong with it. However, when you lie and deceive your customers it's bad business.

again, sorry for my rash earlier response. I still stand by those words.

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed. It contains links to third party websites, please have the appropriate content owners contact us with any specific issues.

I agree with the post philllll made up above. For Chris Williams to address the individuals on this forum was the proper thing to do on his part and deserves a respectful and mature response in return. That aside, many things remain largely unanswered and sheathmaker's post was quite vague.

On a note to sheathmaker's post, what he said was true as in many popular knife makers use cnc'ed blanks as well--although in some cases cnc'ed or milled by themselves and the designs, often their own. With that given, they still make a great product, build a market for it, and sell it as such. The difference between such makers and Chris Williams is the issue of transparency and largely, the main issue brought up in this thread. Now I respect a man, especially one who can bring about their own successful business. Many individuals in my family, including my parents have started their own small businesses and I'm fully aware of the of the investment in time and money that it takes to even be marginally successful. I don't think any of us (most) wants to put someone out of business, especially one whom has a family to care for, but on the flip side I would say most people aren't content with the situation as is.

My idea for a resolve? Make it clear, and not just a subliminal message, on Chris William's website that he purchases pre-cut (and pre-ground?) blanks and builds his knives from there. As long as that is out there and clear for everyone of his current or potential customers to see, this resolve sounds good to me. As for the pricing on William's knives? Price them anyway you want. If you can sell your knives at $600, good for you. Its your business, your knives, I'm not here to dictate what you have to do. You could just end it here with your last post, but that still leaves these issues largely unresolved not to mention offensive to those whom build their knives from scratch. Unlike what you said, many of these knifemakers do not reap countless rewards in respect to the time they invest and do not necessarily earn vast sums of money per knife.

One other note:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a sizable cost difference between a custom ordered CNC blanks as opposed to an already made in-house design?



- BN

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: This post contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed.

Not a dime's worth of diffence, "design"-wise.

BUT

BLANK:

WILLIAMS KNIFE:

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

The post contains content from Charleston Angler, specifically text descriptions of an item for sale. Please have appropriate third party content owners contact us with any issues.

Another similarity, if you look at where the jantz handle pin hole is drilled, that's where his handle pin is. They look proportionate.. maybe Chris can explain

Here's another knife: $750

http://williamsknife.com/store-items/black-mingo/

and the blank: $115

http://www.alabamadamascussteel.com/servlet/Detail?no=269

from info here

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10819-Heard-of-this-guy

Master bladesmith Chris Williams....

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: The reported post contains a hyperlink to http://williamsknife.com/store-items/black-mingo/
Please see https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP with regards to links to websites from other websites. The post will not be removed.

Quoted from here
That is a whole lot of knifes to "hand make" in one week
How about some answers Chris?

Reason:

Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright is strictly forbidden in relationship to all rights reserved and copyrighted property for Williams Knife, Williams Knife Co., Williams Knife Co, LLC. This is our request that any such instance be removed immediately and any further use, mentions, documentation, etc. from your hosted site in accordance with this request or any further request. Should you have any questions regarding this request, you may contact Chris Williams, or our legal agent acting on our behalf, at chris@williamsknife.com or 864.905.4753. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

My response: The post in question contains no "Use of any related documentation, reference, hyperlink, link, content, imagery and copyright" and as such will not be removed.

 

[Spark]

My summation: user "Chris Williams" reported over a dozen posts with the same complaints.

He's contacted me directly and threatened to sue over the content of the posts in question.

Given that none of the posts in question exhibit grounds for removal based stated reason in his reports, I'm not going to remove them.

I am going to reopen this thread at this time.

I would caution anyone taking part in this thread (or others like this) to be sure that you make clear that you distinguish facts from your opinions and tread carefully with regards to Fair Use laws and commentary. While the truth is an absolute defense with regards to libel and defamation, getting sued doesn't serve anyone's interests. Trade libel in particular can be nasty.

You will note that I am not making any claims whether Chris Williams is a fraud, or whether Chris Williams is engaged in marketing premade blanks as custom knives. I am not making any statements about Chris Williams being a phony. I'm not making any representation about Chris Williams character, or the business practices of the Williams Knife Co or their parent companies.

I am also not questioning whether Chris Williams is an actual master bladesmith or whether that title is self awarded or otherwise misused. I have no idea how he conducts his business. If it was found out that these knives weren't as advertised, it would be a terrible thing and potentially open up a class action lawsuit to be filed against Williams Knife Co based on fraud and misrepresentation & other dishonest sales tactics, but then, I'm not a lawyer.

Personally, I'm shrugging my shoulders at this. If Chris Williams is indeed making 50+ of these knives weekly as claimed, it should be a relatively simple matter for him to show a start to finish video highlighting the construction of some of the knives in question, right? He's got a video camera. It should be a simple matter for him to throw it up on youtube to dispel any doubts. Similarly if he's a master bladesmith like certain ad copy claims, it should be trivial for him to provide accreditation for it. Putting out that many knives with high quality for high prices is definitely a hallmark of a skilled craftsman and I'm sure that many other knifemakers could stand to learn from his example.

In the meantime, BladeForums has always welcomed commentary and frank discussion on trends in the industry. This subforum is specifically to provide reviews and commentary on sales of items in the marketplace, and is not a place for baseless libel or defamation. I personally don't see a problem with people finishing premade knife blanks and then selling the completed products, provided they are accurately advertised and not sold using deceptive or misleading commentary. Many well regarded knife makers "mid tech" their production in this manner, using having their designs blanked by a third party, before they complete the final product.

I would take issue with anyone taking a premade knife blank from a wholesaler and then billing the final product as a "custom" knife, but that's merely my opinion on the matter. I'm certainly not saying that Chris Williams would do such a thing.

I would hope that Chris Williams uses this as an opportunity to show us his craftsman skills and can provide a satisfactory explanation that alleviates the concerns expressed by potential customers regarding the nature of his products.