Peter demmer of terrier blades buyer beware

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noob93 said:
I don't give a f*ck about acceptance. I am who I am and this thread was not started for exceptance or for my character to be judged. You calling me a whistle blower and straying from my question of whether or not you were encouraging theft says it all. And to mtangent iv certainly learned enough about this forum from this post to see there's some downright stupid and immoral human beings here. If people want to make this thread about judging me and turn a blind eye that's fine. I just thought people were a lot less ignorant and a whole lot less rude here. Cheers to thievery and all who accept it. Oh and thanks for the warm welcome.
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Your starting to dig yourself into a hole. Smart thing to do would be to stop digging-take a breather and calm down.
 
Call it theft if you will, but you changed the parameters which broke the agreement so perhaps the maker felt it was payment for taking up his time. He did however use the down payment to purchase materials which he was willing to send you.

I don't take money up front and if I did this might be a clause in the agreement. I probably would have sent the money back.

You came here with your story to a forum that you knew the maker was not a member and accused him of theft. Guess that's not whistle blowing because he was not going to see the thread. A large number of members have been on your side from the beginning hoping he will make good on the money.

There are many knifemakers that take deposits and have customers back out due to buyers remorse or they saw something else they like better or can get something else quicker. So as most makers are on a short budget they try to cover themselves with a deposit when something like this runs off the rails. They never get the truth about what happened... it's usually an illness, car trouble, suit didn't come back from the cleaners, had a flat tire on the Limo... He cut you off all communications for a reason I know what it is now.
 
noob93 said:
So as a knife maker/knife nut your not interested in discussing different procedures and methods? You have no interest to perhaps gain knowledge from an unlikely source? Also just so we're clear here you do encourage theft and like to make fun of those who have suffered from theft? Just so you know your also standing up for a guy who thinks very little of these forums as he stated to me. Ignorance is bliss what else can I say.
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Again, you continue to exhibit behavior that gives concrete proof to the maker's claim that you were impossible to work with. Look at what you state above (I've bolded it). What? Peter Demmer made no such comment. Read his exact words:

"I’m not registered on blade forums and do not frequent blogs/forums so I was totally unaware of the post."

" He is aware that I do not frequent forums so I guess this post was the next logical step on his agenda"

So, here you are, twisting his words. Your entire story is suspect to me at this point, and it's pretty clear that I'm not the only one who sees this. Good luck ever having a top shelf maker work with you in the future. Any of them who see this won't give you the time of day.
 
noob93 said:
I don't give a f*ck about acceptance. I am who I am and this thread was not started for exceptance or for my character to be judged. You calling me a whistle blower and straying from my question of whether or not you were encouraging theft says it all. And to mtangent iv certainly learned enough about this forum from this post to see there's some downright stupid and immoral human beings here. If people want to make this thread about judging me and turn a blind eye that's fine. I just thought people were a lot less ignorant and a whole lot less rude here. Cheers to thievery and all who accept it. Oh and thanks for the warm welcome.
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Name calling for disagreeing with you. Yep, I'd say Peter Demmer made the right call. :thumbup:
 
I'd say Mr Demmer is a good judge of character. OP didn't get what he was looking for here, look how he reacted.
You choose a maker because you trust him to make a knife........not to tell him how to make it.
Joe
 
noob93 said:
I don't give a f*ck about acceptance. I am who I am and this thread was not started for exceptance or for my character to be judged. You calling me a whistle blower and straying from my question of whether or not you were encouraging theft says it all. And to mtangent iv certainly learned enough about this forum from this post to see there's some downright stupid and immoral human beings here. If people want to make this thread about judging me and turn a blind eye that's fine. I just thought people were a lot less ignorant and a whole lot less rude here. Cheers to thievery and all who accept it. Oh and thanks for the warm welcome.
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Go with the righteous indignation...it suits you.
 
Quiet said:
Again, you continue to exhibit behavior that gives concrete proof to the maker's claim that you were impossible to work with. Look at what you state above (I've bolded it). What? Peter Demmer made no such comment. Read his exact words:

"I’m not registered on blade forums and do not frequent blogs/forums so I was totally unaware of the post."

" He is aware that I do not frequent forums so I guess this post was the next logical step on his agenda"

So, here you are, twisting his words. Your entire story is suspect to me at this point, and it's pretty clear that I'm not the only one who sees this. Good luck ever having a top shelf maker work with you in the future. Any of them who see this won't give you the time of day.
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Oh youv read me and Mr demmers emails now have you? Why would he say anything on here to deter people from buying his products. Do me a favor and think man. Also it's good to know makers won't work with me based on a thread about a maker stealing my money over a couple of easily fixed disagreements. Then I'm also a horrible person for standing up for myself after you guys wanna gang up and stick up for the man who thieved me,(while trying to make me feel like it's my fault?). I'd say the proof is in the pudding. Mr demmer has my number and has not called to resolve this. Though from what you and others have said it would seem I don't deserve that.
 
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I think people are having a hard time sympathizing with your because of the attitude you display. You changed the terms of your agreement then proceeded to tell him how to do his job based your obvious expertise in heat treat, then wanted to add something that wasn't planned on. Oddly enough you are not the only person in the world. The guy has a list of other people waiting in line with orders to build that with all your changes, expertise, and demands get pushed further and further back every time you call or email him with changes. Iron out your details beforehand, don't expect the world to stop just because you change your mind.

You have made it blatantly obvious why he would cut your order and move on.
 
Maaaaate...I think what most people are taking away from this, perhaps not you, but many most certainly is that Mr Demmer (never heard of him before now) was RIGHT to call this process off (it was going to go from bad to worse) but 95% +/- wrong NOT to refund you the $$s and call it money well spent. I do however agree his time IS worth something but business practice would have seen me give you the $$s.
 
1. Why is there a GB&U thread on BF regarding a Maker not registered in this forum? (??)
2. What is the OP's objective?

At best the only outcome to all of this discussion is the solicitation of replies & opinions generated by the OP's initial description of a transaction the details of which the reader is not privy to other than what the OP reveals.
All the emotional connotation and name calling presented by the buyer (OP) is amounts to nothing more than heresay included to embellish the OP's description and really has no bearing.
But, if I may, I would point out some overlooked details to this presentation.
Calling a man a thief or stating a man has committed theft without presentation of supporting evidence on a Members only forum, a forum in which one 'Signs In / Logs On' in order to post is a signature declaration. Because one must Sign In to Post what you post here bears your signature.

But, and let me emphasize BUT, registration is NOT required to read such, thus any internet user may read such posts without being registered and thus Demeaning statements of a Man's character without substantiation and said statements regarding a Man's business practices without evidence could be construed as Public Slander and/or Libel.
The OP states the person's actual name (Peter Demmer) and his actual business name (Terrier Knives) with nothing more than a personal description of the business transaction, he being the 'Buyer' and declares, Publicly I might add, the Seller guilty of theft. The 'Seller' has yet to respond and without being a forum member here is, at best, represented only through third party proxy which the reader must take the word of the proxy reply that what is posted is actually remarks issued from the Seller himself.
There are Sales and Purchases in the Exchange daily and terms of sale are simplified and moderated by BF moderators. In this scenario that is non existent and there is no outcome. It's just a single sided complaint.
Where is the contract betwixt Seller and Buyer describing the terms of transaction?
What are the terms of sale?
What contractual obligations existed between Buyer and Seller?
How does one order a product offered by the Seller?
Was the ordered product based on a presented model or to be manufactured solely on the discription of the Buyer?
Did Seller agree to create product?
Did Buyer agree to Purchase product?
What are the conditions involved in a Change Order request?
And in said contract what deposit requirements are outlined?
What contract cancelation options are outlined?
What refund options are outlined?

The reader does not know, the buyer does not reveal, and the seller makes no reply.
So where are we going with this?

And more importantly, since such statements can and do influence the Sellers livelihood and potential business transactions with the 18000+ members of this internet forum as well as any and all internet users who may read such statements numbering well into the millions, what prevents the Seller; Peter Demmer, from seeking legal recourse through civil court for Defamation of Character from the buyer; Colton Kroon?
Both actual names publicly posted in this thread.
This website conducts Sales and Services Transactions, is a duly registered FCC website and COPPA compliant, note the bottom of this and each and every page. Might just be a wee careful in what one posts here. You post it, You sign it.
Just something to think about.
 
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Skystorm said:
I think people are having a hard time sympathizing with your because of the attitude you display. You changed the terms of your agreement then proceeded to tell him how to do his job based your obvious expertise in heat treat, then wanted to add something that wasn't planned on. Oddly enough you are not the only person in the world. The guy has a list of other people waiting in line with orders to build that with all your changes, expertise, and demands get pushed further and further back every time you call or email him with changes. Iron out your details beforehand, don't expect the world to stop just because you change your mind.

You have made it blatantly obvious why he would cut your order and move on.
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Ding, this 100%.
 
noob93 said:
Oh youv read me and Mr demmers emails now have you? Why would he say anything on here to deter people from buying his products. Do me a favor and think man. Also it's good to know makers won't work with me based on a thread about a maker stealing my money over a couple of easily fixed disagreements. Then I'm also a horrible person for standing up for myself after you guys wanna gang up and stick up for the man who thieved me,(while trying to make me feel like it's my fault?). I'd say the proof is in the pudding. Mr demmer has my number and has not called to resolve this. Though from what you and others have said it would seem I don't deserve that.
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The guy hasn't "thieved" you. Did he ever explicitly explain to you that deposits were refundable? Because it seems to me his clear statement in that email from him is that deposits are NOT refundable.

Also, you keeeeeep miiiiisssssssing the POINT. You are clearly a terrible customer, and you just don't get it. The guy cut you, because you were wasting his time. That you find no fault in your actions, tells everyone here all we need to know. It's clear you were an insane level of hassle for the maker, so he cut you loose. Let me ask you, do you like when people tell you how to do your job? What if you were doing some complicated task, and someone came to you and said "Oh hey, while you're there, could you change this, that, and this other thing?" You'd be cool, right? Even if it meant significant additional work, where you had to backtrack and redo something? You'd be cool with it, right?

Right?

In any case, Greykilt has it right, honestly. What are we supposed to do? The guy's not even a member of this forum, so what, are the moderators supposed to go to his house? Are the members here who read this going to call, or go to his house and get your blank for you? Call or email him demanding he take care of you? Call Paypal for you? Or was this a general "Beware", which makes little sense, because he's not even a member here. Instead we got a guy who doesn't understand that he's made it clear that he's terrible to deal with, and instead calls us all idiots, and ignorant for not immediately siding with him.

Good luck.
 
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Maybe the forum member here can on your behalf send Peter your address so he can return the unfinished blade.

You may be able to find a knifemaker to finish it out for you.
 
Quiet said:
The guy hasn't "thieved" you. Did he ever explicitly explain to you that deposits were refundable? Because it seems to me his clear statement in that email from him is that deposits are NOT refundable.

Also, you keeeeeep miiiiisssssssing the POINT. You are clearly a terrible customer, and you just don't get it. The guy cut you, because you were wasting his time. That you find no fault in your actions, tells everyone here all we need to know. It's clear you were an insane level of hassle for the maker, so he cut you loose. Let me ask you, do you like when people tell you how to do your job? What if you were doing some complicated task, and someone came to you and said "Oh hey, while you're there, could you change this, that, and this other thing?" You'd be cool, right? Even if it meant significant additional work, where you had to backtrack and redo something? You'd be cool with it, right?

Right?
Good luck.
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I'm not a knifemaker, nor do I make a physical product, but I do make my living on contracts doing work for hire (I'm a designer and programmer). ALL of my contracts start with half up-front, non-refundable, usually with the balance due upon completion.

I've only had to fire a client mid-project once, and withold the desposit when they asked for it to be refunded (they'd already consumed more than half of the budgeted hours on the project through bad management and waffling around feature spec after it'd been approved —*much like the scenario being discussed in this thread). Honestly, that's exactly what a deposit is for.

If you're working with a specialist in any capacity to build you something custom, that's inexorably a commitment to enter into a collaborative process, and both sides bear some responsibility to stick to the outlined and agreed upon procedures and protocols. If one member of the agreement is being disruptive, and sabotaging the process, then it's fully legitimate, to my mind, for the other party to terminate the agreement, and retain compensation for the time they've spent on the work.

If you want dollars to only equal a delivered product, then buy something off the shelf. If you want something — anything — custom, in this world, you become a client not just a customer because you're not just receiving a product; you're soliciting ongoing consultation and services from a skilled professional. That's inherently collaborative, and thus you have a responsibility to positively influence the process, lest you waste the other person's time and money, as well as your own.
 
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What this thread HAS done is got me looking at Terrier Blades website and deciding that there is certainly on of his designs that I REALLY LIKE :D
 
Andy the Aussie said:
What this thread HAS done is got me looking at Terrier Blades website and deciding that there is certainly on of his designs that I REALLY LIKE :D
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Got me looking too! The best thing for me is that he is a Canadian knife maker, which relieves many issues that we have with shipping across borders. It also looks like I will be ordering a "bear necky" as a Christmas present for a hard to buy for friend. Thanks noob93
 
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