Pit Bull mauling and killing in California

Save the pit? Propaganda?

Discussion is not propaganda.
Hysteria is propaganda.

Kill them all, let God sort them out is propaganda.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Save the pit? Propaganda?

Discussion is not propaganda.
Hysteria is propaganda.

Kill them all, let God sort them out is propaganda.
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Haha ;)

Promoting incorrect information can be looked upon as propoganda. Obviously this is an agree to disagree situation. The threat of these animals is well documented by the CDC, law enforcement etc...... at nauseum. The press is the press. I can say that out of all the press video I have seen, most of the PB's shown are either a PB or a variation thereof.

I dont like the press any more than anyone else but PB's and other breeds makes for good copy and for good reason.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention examined U.S. dog-attack fatalities from 1979 to 1998. During that period, dogs killed more than 300 Americans, and pit bulls, either purebred or crossbred, accounted for 76 of the deaths, the most of any breed. Purebred or crossbred Rottweillers were responsible for 44 deaths, the second highest. The CDC concluded that Rottweillers and pit bulls were responsible for 67 percent of ALL! fatal attacks.

When you dig further and realize PB's are but a fraction of the dog population you start to see the real picture. Other breeds under the same living and treatment conditions just do not do the same damage or or kill at the same rate. It is not just poor owners that cause PB's to attack they do fine on their own.

A Yorkie biting is a very different thing than a PB and dilutes the real threat and numbers. It is not just PB's but Rots make up a big threat as well.

I love dogs and have trained them for decades but there is no mistaking this situation as I have seen it personally more than once by responsible dog owners whos Pit for no reason went mad.

Skam
 
One of the local papers here in Boston did an article a year or so ago about how smaller breeds were responsible for the greatest number of bad bites by far. The article was accompanied by a photo of an angry looking Bull Terrier! The article was not about Pit Bulls. Papers are notoriously sensationalistic about animal attacks and Pit Bulls are the menace du jour.
I tell people my very affectionate Pit Bull is far less protective of me than I am of her, and it's true. I wouldn't mind if she were a little more protective, really, though she makes an excellent good will ambassador for her breed.
 
Anyone watched the "Dog Whisperer" on the Nat'l Geographic Channel? Cesar Millan has a pack of dogs that are comprised of pit bulls, rottweillers, german shepherds and other breeds and mixes.

I think that he really has got a handle on the care and well being of dogs. I was taught his philosophy about 37 years ago by my partner & bro, who is a very successful dog trainer. I applied his ideas to the training of my Japanese Akita "Barney".

We brought Barney home when he was 8 weeks old. My son Michael was just 9 months. Barney was never allowed to display ANY aggressive behavior towards my son, wife or myself. He weighed 125lbs. and was considered a gentleman by everyone who met him. I live in an apartment building and when the elderly ladies rode with him in the elevator he never annoyed them.
Shortly after we got Barney the Akita became a popular breed. I know of 3 instances where other folks dogs attacked either them or their children.

The times that Barney showed any aggression towards any person in his 13 1/2 years I could count on one hand. Those times that he did I paid attention.

Most dog owners don't have a clue as to keeping a dog. The people that Cesar Milan meets on his show are the majority of owners not the minority. Just observe the dogs and owners that you see everyday.

Dogs are DOGS.... Treat them that way.
 
Swoop said:
Anyone watched the "Dog Whisperer" on the Nat'l Geographic Channel? Cesar Millan has a pack of dogs that are comprised of pit bulls, rottweillers, german shepherds and other breeds and mixes.

I think that he really has got a handle on the care and well being of dogs. I was taught his philosophy about 37 years ago by my partner & bro, who is a very successful dog trainer. I applied his ideas to the training of my Japanese Akita "Barney".

We brought Barney home when he was 8 weeks old. My son Michael was just 9 months. Barney was never allowed to display ANY aggressive behavior towards my son, wife or myself. He weighed 125lbs. and was considered a gentleman by everyone who met him. I live in an apartment building and when the elderly ladies rode with him in the elevator he never annoyed them.
Shortly after we got Barney the Akita became a popular breed. I know of 3 instances where other folks dogs attacked either them or their children.

The times that Barney showed any aggression towards any person in his 13 1/2 years I could count on one hand. Those times that he did I paid attention.

Most dog owners don't have a clue as to keeping a dog. The people that Cesar Milan meets on his show are the majority of owners not the minority. Just observe the dogs and owners that you see everyday.

Dogs are DOGS.... Treat them that way.
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+1

There are not 1 in 10 people who own dogs that know even basic dog training or dog behavior.

If you throw an animal into a fenced in backyard feed it once a day, never work the dog or socialize it and expect it not to be mean you are stupid. That is the way most people treat their dogs, if that good, I have no idea why they even own them. A lot of good people create vicious dogs without even knowing they are doing it. Chris
 
There are far more dangerous things out there in the world to worry about...Being killed by a dog is quite rare indeed.

It would be better to concentrate our efforts on proper training and dog ownership.

How many people in this thread have put their dogs through full obedience training and have encouraged others to do so?



runningboar said:
A lot of good people create vicious dogs without even knowing they are doing it. Chris
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Well said, Chris! :thumbup:


Add 1 for me too on the Cesar Milan mentality. Works wonders on the bully breeds especially. "Daddy" - Cesar's right-hand-dog...is a pit bull that Cesar uses to help train other dogs. It is amazing to watch....Daddy comes in....ignores any bad behavior the other dog has...until it calms down...then goes over to "make friends". I've watched dozens of the episodes and have never seen Daddy do anything aggressive. He is a completely obedient, submissive dog.


It is evident, from the shows, that most dog owners are neglectful of their dogs...and actually encourage poor behavior..rather than fix it. We were doing the same thing with our AmStaff, Jessie, at first. We watched the shows, read the book and made the changes. We now have a submissive, obedient dog. We do still have to "maintain" the training...sometimes we get lazy...or fail to recognize the dog's needs...but now we know how to recognize a bored/frustrated/unbalanced dog...and know we need to do something about it. :thumbup:
 
skammer said:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention examined U.S. dog-attack fatalities from 1979 to 1998. During that period, dogs killed more than 300 Americans, and pit bulls, either purebred or crossbred, accounted for 76 of the deaths, the most of any breed. Purebred or crossbred Rottweillers were responsible for 44 deaths, the second highest. The CDC concluded that Rottweillers and pit bulls were responsible for 67 percent of ALL! fatal attacks.


Skam
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It appears that your logic is about as good as your math skills..... :eek:

Daniel Koster said:
There are far more dangerous things out there in the world to worry about...Being killed by a dog is quite rare indeed.
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Too true Dan!

IF you guys don't think what the media is doing to the APBT is propaganda I seriously wonder about you logical abilities! Everything they say is suspect, but the TRUTH about the APBT...???? RIGHT!!

:D

Tom
 
coletrane811 said:
pistols don't have legs.

come on. don't be naive about it.....

they ARE dangerous dogs. so are rots, bull terriers, german sheppards, pinchers, and the list can go on for quite a while.

i really can't understand how people argue the fact of the matter. it makes no sense to me, but i'm no poli, so i guess it doesn't have to.
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When I first spotted this post I didn't want to get into it as it always ends up with people coming coming out with more Bullsh*t, however if people campaign to ban Pitbulls then once they are gone my dog might be next on the list and where will it end ?
I could train more or less any dog to be a killer if I had the stupidity to do so, imagine a St Bernard trained to kill ( see what the one in Cujo could do ? ) try and stop one of them !!!
It wouldn't be hard to get a Jack Russell to rip off some babies face !!!!
While we are talking about this new safe world with no Pitbulls, Rotties, Ridgebacks etc let's also ban all guns and heaven forbid ban the carry of knives ....have you seen the mess they can make of people !!!!!
Let us also ban alcohol, we don't want to risk idiots drink driving and mowing someone down !!!
Let us also limit the top speed of cars to a sensible 60 Kmh, why would we need to go faster than that, it can be dangerous.
Let's censor all films as they can promote violence, this would obviously also apply to video games !!!!
Fireworks......etc....etc.....what a great new world eh !!!!
 
rebeltf said:
bdws1975 , thanks. :D



The Chef - I think only one or two posters on here mentioned that they did not like the breed, the rest of us just urged caution.
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Yep.

After re reading the post I can see your right.


Hey Tom, thats ludicrous stuff right there man. ; ) I agree a hundred percent with it!
 
Skammer's post (#102) got me curious....always a bad thing. :D


Here's what I found:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

(read past the title....in fact, maybe read the whole article)

It's not the same article that Skammer refers to...couldn't readily find that one...but covers a similar period of time...so I figured it would be ok. :D


Some interesting parts of the article.


The chart near the bottom does indeed place "pit bull" at the top of the dog attack list. I don't think anybody here would be willing to dispute that.

However, note that they put pit bull in quotations....because it is very easy to mistake upwards of 30 different breeds as pit bulls. Need proof? Take this test:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

And I have personally witnessed this on 3 ocassions with Animal Control that they do not identify the breeds correctly. There was a very friendly, tall, white and clearly American Bulldog loose in the neighborhood the other day. I caught him and tethered him and called Animal Control. We told them it was an Am. Bulldog over the phone. When the guy showed up, we told him we had the Am. Bulldog tethered and ready to load up. He loads up the dog and while filling out his form mumbles "Pit Bull"....I tell him "It's clearly an American Bulldog"....he adds "mix".

Story 2 - I am at a local rescue/shelter checking out the dogs...filling out paperwork to adopt. Animal control officer brings in mutt that looks something like a cross between a lab and a Rot. Says he has a "Pit Bull mix" he's going to load up.


Story 3 - looking at a dog in a shelter which is clearly a Staff. Bull Terrier - beautiful brindle. Short/stout...big head..."smiley"...clearly there. I inquire about it...the guy - a self-described "dog guy" calls it a pit bull mix. Arguably...they are indeed close to a APBT...but it was definitely not a Pit and not a mix!


There are not strangers to dogs...they deal with them on a daily basis. So....when the CDC put quotes around "pit bull"....this is why. Because they cannot reliably put the finger on one specific breed.

It is much easier to identify a Rottweiler or a German Shephard Dog....almost as easy to ID a doberman.


"Pit Bull Mix" is an easy write-off to give a bad dog they capture. Puts it on the fast-track to euthanasia.


Now, before anyone gets their panties in a wad...I'm not saying the pit bulls are not capable of causing damage. They sure are...but they are not the only breed...ANY large (45+ lbs) breed can cause damage.

This I have also witnessed first hand...but cannot go into details online.



Here's something interesting on the above webpage:

Three categories of strategies can be considered for preventing dog bites:

Owner and public education. Dog owners, through proper selection, socialization, training, care, and treatment of a dog, can reduce the likelihood of owning a dog that will eventually bite (7). Male and unspayed/unneutered dogs are more likely to bite than are female and spayed/neutered dogs (7). Educational and prevention efforts should be directed at parents and children. Veterinarians and pediatricians should address strategies for bite prevention, including the need for appropriate supervision of children. Other strategies include dissemination of information on preventing bites (see box(Table_B1)), school-based educational programs on bite prevention and canine behavior, and educational programs regarding responsible dog selection, ownership, and training.

Animal control at the community level. Animal-control programs should be supported, and laws for regulating dangerous or vicious dogs should be promulgated and enforced vigorously (8). For example, in this report, 30% of DBRFs resulted from groups of owned dogs that were free roaming off the owner's property. Some of these deaths might have been prevented through more stringent animal-control laws and enforcement. Although some breeds were disproportionately represented in the fatal attacks described in this report, the representation of breeds changes over time (Table_1). As a result, targeting a specific breed may be unproductive; a more effective approach may be to target chronically irresponsible dog owners (9).

Bite reporting. Evaluation of prevention efforts requires improved surveillance for dog bites. Dog bites should be reported as required by local or state ordinances, and reports of such incidents should include information about the circumstances of the bite; ownership, breed, sex, age, spay/neuter status, and history of prior aggression of the animal; and the nature of restraint before the bite incident.
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emphasis added by me :D



Like I said...it would do well if everyone read this article, start to finish....top to bottom. :thumbup:
 
We raised a Boxer for our own family, and later a Great Dane, and then another Great Dane, training them as guard dogs for other people.

There are a very few, simple rules we followed. First, the dog is a member of the family, and as such never gets yelled at or hit. If he needs discipline, banishing him to the hallway was always enough to make him whimper and crouch down in complete dejection. The sooner this is over, the better: call him back in, tell him to be a good dog now, and rub his head so he knows he's OK again. Repeat the offense? Not on his life he wouldn't.

Second rule: the dog is a living creature of considerable intelligence, not a machine to start up when you're ready for him. He requires constant affection or affirmation, and a lot of exercise. Stop watching TV or reading that book for a few minutes, look over and say, get over here, you :) and play with him for a bit. Let him climb up on the couch next to you. Get outside with him and run around. Whoever invented the frisbee is the dog's best friend.

Third rule: in public, the dog must be under total, immediate control. That means a leash, and it also means a shortened leash approaching people, even if he seemed to be ignoring them. Reinforce the training: dogs don't bite until I tell them to. :)

Basic rule: if you don't love them like a child, don't keep them. Dogs are too much effort to raise and train and feed and attend to without more of a payback than a security assist. If that's all you need, buy a gun and take it to the range now and again.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
We raised a Boxer for our own family, and later a Great Dane, and then another Great Dane, training them as guard dogs for other people.

There are a very few, simple rules we followed. First, the dog is a member of the family, and as such never gets yelled at or hit. If he needs discipline, banishing him to the hallway was always enough to make him whimper and crouch down in complete dejection. The sooner this is over, the better: call him back in, tell him to be a good dog now, and rub his head so he knows he's OK again. Repeat the offense? Not on his life he wouldn't.

Second rule: the dog is a living creature of considerable intelligence, not a machine to start up when you're ready for him. He requires constant affection or affirmation, and a lot of exercise. Stop watching TV or reading that book for a few minutes, look over and say, get over here, you :) and play with him for a bit. Let him climb up on the couch next to you. Get outside with him and run around. Whoever invented the frisbee is the dog's best friend.

Third rule: in public, the dog must be under total, immediate control. That means a leash, and it also means a shortened leash approaching people, even if he seemed to be ignoring them. Reinforce the training: dogs don't bite until I tell them to. :)

Basic rule: if you don't love them like a child, don't keep them. Dogs are too much effort to raise and train and feed and attend to without more of a payback than a security assist. If that's all you need, buy a gun and take it to the range now and again.
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SO its all training, irrelevant of breed?
 
Anecdotes are great, anecdotes are a slice of reality, but anecdotes can be too limited a picture for general purposes. The media are worthless in this regard. Statistical studies are much more useful, but they too need careful interpretation.

Did the stats on pit bulls eliminate those owned by out and out gangbangers? That's like the CDC stats on firearms deaths of children -- including 19 year old drug dealers as children. :rolleyes:
 
pitdog said:
Better ban all these then as they have all been bred for fighting at one time or another!!!!!!:jerkit:



Akita Inu
Alangu Mastiff
Alano Español
American bulldog
American Pit Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Argentine Dogo
B

Bedlington Terrier
Blue Paul Terrier
Boston Terrier
Bull and Terrier
Bull Terrier
Bully Kutta

C

Cordoba Fighting Dog
D

Dogue de Bordeaux
Dogo Cubano
Dogo Sardesco
E

English Mastiff
English White Terrier
F

Fila Brasileiro
G

Gull Dong
Gull Terr
I

Irish staffordshire bull terrier
K

Kerry Blue Terrier
L

Lottatore Brindisino
N

Neapolitan Mastiff
M

Manchester Terrier
O

Old English Bulldog
P

Perro de Presa Canario (Canary Dog)
Perro de Presa Mallorquin (Ca de Bou)
Pit bull
S

Shar Pei
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
T

Tibetan Mastiff
Tosa
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Unfortunately all of these breeds and more, as well as breeds over a certain weight and size, are being listed in some places to be banned. My sisters Boston Terrier is being listed as a "fighting dog" where she lives.Last year I had to put my Pit Bull to sleep after 16 years of being the best dog that I ever had. Never in a fight, never bit anyone, never overly aggresive. I'll never get another one simply because of the liability of owing one, and insurance problems. I had a Fila (140 lbs) who did become aggressive to some extent...because of his breed? No, because in my 5' chain link fence with chain locked gates the local teenagers would walk up to the fence and yell, kick the fence, throw firewood, rocks, pieces of rebar, soda, etc at him. It came to the point where if he had gotten out, I have no doubt he would have hurt them. Their fault and deserving, my liability...very frustrating. Newspaper headline...Killer Fila Attacks Innocent Neighborhood Children, City Counsel to consider banning breed.
 
No, it's not all training, regardless of breed or even regardless of individual animal. People have raised children in happy, productive homes, and seen them go wildly astray. It's a rough world out there ... but I guarantee that anyone taking the time we did to live with our dogs would see it the moment they began to go wrong.

Millions of people, millions of animals, even a minuscule percentage can be a disaster. But we need to understand the concept of perspective.
 
Esav, some very good points! I can't imagine getting a dog just to throw in the back yard!!

Dan, good thread. The can you id the apbt link was VERY good!

Tom
 
skammer said:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention examined U.S. dog-attack fatalities from 1979 to 1998. During that period, dogs killed more than 300 Americans, and pit bulls, either purebred or crossbred, accounted for 76 of the deaths, the most of any breed. Purebred or crossbred Rottweillers were responsible for 44 deaths, the second highest. The CDC concluded that Rottweillers and pit bulls were responsible for 67 percent of ALL! fatal attacks.

When you dig further and realize PB's are but a fraction of the dog population you start to see the real picture. Other breeds under the same living and treatment conditions just do not do the same damage or or kill at the same rate. It is not just poor owners that cause PB's to attack they do fine on their own.

Skam
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Please read what you wrote here and tell me if you can justify the bolded statements using anything but your own belief. (You can't. There are no definitive statistics separating out that information.)
 
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