Pokerface deal gone bad.

[Bryan J]

Value it should have been?

I agree this was poor wording on my part. Replace it with "the subjective value from the perspective of the seller".

How can you shift fault to the buyer for wanting to score a good deal?

I did not assign fault, nor am I interested in doing so. My point was related to the one-sided questioning of ethics. Hey, one may very well stumble into a thread where somebody is selling a $400 knife for $10; and one would be perfectly aligned with forum rules in obtaining that knife for a sawbuck ("for a steal", as you said). But is it ethical to do so? I'm not confident everyone would agree on the answer to this question.

 

[JR88FAN]

^^^^

Let's throw every hypothetically scenario out there and see which one sticks?

This was not a "mistake" rather the seller changed his mind after making a deal....

Like I said, if that's OK, then fine, just don't want the facts getting too diluted.

 

[benchwarmer380]

1. I agree this was poor wording on my part. Replace it with "the subjective value from the perspective of the seller".



2. I did not assign fault, nor am I interested in doing so. My point was related to the one-sided questioning of ethics. Hey, one may very well stumble into a thread where somebody is selling a $400 knife for $10; and one would be perfectly aligned with forum rules in obtaining that knife for a sawbuck ("for a steal", as you said). But is it ethical to do so? I'm not confident everyone would agree on the answer to this question.

1. I still see no difference as the buyer was not trying to force anything, only accept the deal that was offered from the seller by posting up a For Sale thread.

2. You are right in that you did not assign fault. I did not mean to put words in your mouth so I apologize if my post came across that way. I should have said, shift the focus.

A plus or minus of roughly $10-50, (which is the case here) is purely subjective and the final sale price is up to the seller. Your example of a $400 item being sold for $10 is more like Mr. Hartwig's example of a custom Mayo being listed for $200 instead of the usual price being closer to $2000.

It's my opinion that the two situations are not the same, the former being completely subjective, the latter worthy of an ethical debate. Not in this thread though.

 

[craytab]

This thread was warranted IMO. First rule of selling is to be sure you want to sell. Seller failed at this. This failure went a great distance. We now have a record of it. Anyone who cares about the person you are buying or selling with will see this thread when they put the sellers name into the search box for the GB&U, like you should do before any transactions are made, even if you think you know the person. That said, the biggest pain in the ass is the itrader feedback. The rules for itrader use are quite clear. Yet people ignore the rules. We've seen it at least 3 times in this very thread. If someone can't be bothered to read simple rules, what else can't they be bothered with?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I see the seller's ethics have been called into question several times. Why no ethical discussion over attempting to force the sale of a knife that was listed under the value it should have been? Sure, the seller made a mistake and perhaps failed to think things through before listing the item. Does that really entitle the buyer who caught the mistake to free money? It reads like a bad game of "GOTCHA!": "Haha, you listed it wrong! I'll take it! No, no, no you said it was $150! I've locked you in at $150! Look at the forum rules! Look at the forum rules! Where is a moderator?!" Is this what the BF community is about? Not exactly gentlemanly behavior, in my opinion. I'm not really taking sides here, just providing another perspective.

Who decides what the correct value is. I certainly don't know that the knife was under priced and if it was it is the seller who is at fault. People sell for all sort of reasons, and price their items accordingly. I mentioned a scenario earlier where your ethics could come into ? if you tried to grab a typo, but that concerned thousands of $ not $25. At $25 if you make a mistake listing your price you should just eat it.
It was correct for the op to post this thread
It was incorrect for the OP to post in Itrader and he is well aware of that now
Seller should think about this thread and try to improve, changing your mind once -maybe a mistake, twice-ridiculous
Op can't do anything more, but move on with his life

 

[Breezie]

I previously posted everything that was said. Copied and pasted. I also previously posted that I have requested the FB be removed as the rules are clear and I was wrong. Very simply, I believed the seller wanted to sell the knife and I wanted to buy the knife. No more, no less.

 

[Gaston444]

If this is exactly how it went down, I could see where this could be construed as an agreement.

If you didn't want to let it go the second time, why even entertain a price? Either give a price that you will actually accept or let them know that it is no longer available.

Exactly.

Changing his mind is one thing, just say it is not for sale (he could simply have not replied). But the moment you mention a higher price, then it is a deal.

I think the seller mentioned a higher price because he thinks that his personal thoughts on the value of his knives are of great interest to everyone...

He also mentioned several times the terrible amount of money he was losing on this knife: He also thinks that is of great interest to everyone...

Thanks to the OP, we now know everything we need to know...

Gaston

 

[leghog]

I see the seller's ethics have been called into question several times. Why no ethical discussion over attempting to force the sale of a knife that was listed under the value it should have been? Sure, the seller made a mistake and perhaps failed to think things through before listing the item. Does that really entitle the buyer who caught the mistake to free money? It reads like a bad game of "GOTCHA!": "Haha, you listed it wrong! I'll take it! No, no, no you said it was $150! I've locked you in at $150! Look at the forum rules! Look at the forum rules! Where is a moderator?!" Is this what the BF community is about? Not exactly gentlemanly behavior, in my opinion. I'm not really taking sides here, just providing another perspective.

The seller should not have posted it for a price he wasn't willing to take. He could have cancelled the sale BEFORE any buyer committed (the seller had two days before that happened -- he should have changed his mind then), but the seller didn't. Once the buyer committed, the seller should have followed through on his word. A man's word must mean something.

 

[Mecha]

Dang Pokerface, when Breezie gave you an open-ended "what price is it gonna take to get that knife," you obvs should have gouged him out of the gate with a price of "fie' hunnert dollar," punctuated by the ring of a spittoon as you expertly splatter it a glob of tobaccy juice. That's when the real dealin' begins, and you let him work you down to $229 net to you. Everyone wins!

 

[ooitzoo]

Incorrect.

He agreed to the deal, then changed his mind after he was overwhelmed with the idea that it was just not enough $.

I would be fine with your "version" of events vs what actually happened, but to me, a deal is a deal, and a deal was made.

If the seller would have said "listen, I made a mistake and I am not going to sell it for this amount" I could see your point....

That's effectively what he said...

From what is posted in this thread, it looks as though there was only one follow up PM or email looking to score it at a higher price that would be acceptable to the seller. Not quite the badgering that your paraphrase in quotations shows.

Now if I'm wrong and a longer conversation did take place, I'm sure the seller or buyer will let us know.

He sent him a note a few days later then sent him $$ without confirming the deal. That, to me, is badgering and I would be irritated.

Also, no one seems to mind that the OP misrepresented the events in his post; he said he sent cash the first time THEN sent another $25. What actually happened was seller changed his mind (again, not the right thing to do) and then, after following up, OP sent him $$ a few days later for the total amount.

 

[Gizmoman]

This thread smell of "FISH" from the jump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMAZING what has been going on in here as of late.......:thumbdn:

 

[MattWRog]

Another feedback thread muddled up making it much more difficult to ascertain the facts between the members involved in the transaction. New and old members alike are quick to quote rules in this forum conveniently overlook the most forlorn rule of them all,

8. Dog-piling for the sake of putting your 2 cents in is not going to be tolerated. If you have something useful to contribute, share it with confidence. If you are only going to contribute some silly comment, save it and move along. This has been a growing problem and we are going to be more proactive to lessen it.

 

[palonej]

Dang Pokerface, when Breezie gave you an open-ended "what price is it gonna take to get that knife," you obvs should have gouged him out of the gate with a price of "fie' hunnert dollar," punctuated by the ring of a spittoon as you expertly splatter it a glob of tobaccy juice. That's when the real dealin' begins, and you let him work you down to $229 net to you. Everyone wins!

Best post in this thread!!!
Do you do seminars Mecha???
😄😄
Joe

 

[benchwarmer380]

He sent him a note a few days later then sent him $$ without confirming the deal. That, to me, is badgering and I would be irritated.

Also, no one seems to mind that the OP misrepresented the events in his post; he said he sent cash the first time THEN sent another $25. What actually happened was seller changed his mind (again, not the right thing to do) and then, after following up, OP sent him $$ a few days later for the total amount.

He asked how much it would take to complete the deal and was then given a price. That's confirming in my book. If the seller was no longer interested in selling that would have been the point to say so and not give a price that he would accept.



He gave a brief synopsis in the first post, but I do not think he misrepresented anything.
He was told that $25 on top of the previous total is what was needed to complete the deal and that is what he sent. $150 the first time, $175 the second.

Deal posted for a BRK Bravo for $150 for two days. I said I would take it. I was sent a paypal address with the agreement to pay as soon as I got off of a flight. Upon paying I received notice from Pokerface that he realized he wanted to charge more so he was pulling out of the deal. A couple of days later I sent a PM stating I was still stinging from his unwarranted withdrawal and asked what amount it would take to complete the deal. I was told an additional $25 would do it. I noted that I would send that amount to complete the deal. I did and Pokerface returned my money saying he did not agree to the deal, again. He can keep his knife at this point. This was plain bullshit.

 

[City74]

The fact that people are blaming the OP amazes me. He did nothing wrong except offer to pay the guy more after being screwed over the first time. The fault lays with the seller totally. That's my opinion

 

[Vaporstang]

The fact that people are blaming the OP amazes me. He did nothing wrong except offer to pay the guy more after being screwed over the first time. The fault lays with the seller totally. That's my opinion

Agreed.

 

[JR88FAN]

Hi Armando. I'll take it please. I'm just boarding a flight and will send funds when we land. Please send me your PP address just to make sure I still have it. Thanks!
Brian

Brian,

PayPal is:

Mandomachado@gmail.com

Best,

-Armando

Well that's to bad. Let me know if you change your mind.
Armando,

I have to be honest, I'm still stinging over this one a little. I understand you realized you were asking less for this than what you paid and I respect that. With that said, what would you consider a fair price for this to complete the deal?

Brian


I'd have to get $175 net (175 Friends/180 Goods). After Priority Shipping…I would pocket $160 by my calculations…and even then, I'm not that thrilled considering that I paid $229 for it.

-Armando
I'll send $175 F&F. Thank you for making this right Armando.

Brian

What happened to "I'll do that if you agree"???? I'm sending your money right back. You should have waited for me to agree.
Wow, you have this posted for two days at $150 and when we agree to a deal you renig on it and when I give you a chance to make it right you pull this bullshit?? Nevermind. We'll just see what the members think.

The fact that people are blaming the OP amazes me. He did nothing wrong except offer to pay the guy more after being screwed over the first time. The fault lays with the seller totally. That's my opinion

Correct, and I am glad this thread has now focused in on the issue.

I am not sure there is much more to add.

Both of them broke rules, there is little doubt about that, it's just that the seller broke a rule that questions his integrity, not only BF policy.

I am sure the mods can deal with it how they see fit from here.

Hopefully this thread has helped everyone understand that when you agree to something you follow through. I think that's what we are looking for from sellers and buyers...

 

[ooitzoo]

He asked how much it would take to complete the deal and was then given a price. That's confirming in my book. If the seller was no longer interested in selling that would have been the point to say so and not give a price that he would accept.

Really? Show where anyone is confirming anything?

Well that's to bad. Let me know if you change your mind.
Armando,

I have to be honest, I'm still stinging over this one a little. I understand you realized you were asking less for this than what you paid and I respect that. With that said, what would you consider a fair price for this to complete the deal?

Brian


I'd have to get $175 net (175 Friends/180 Goods). After Priority Shipping…I would pocket $160 by my calculations…and even then, I'm not that thrilled considering that I paid $229 for it.

-Armando
I'll send $175 F&F. Thank you for making this right Armando.

Brian

 

[JohnWE]

Apparently my idea of a "deal" differs from that of whomever wrote the now infamous rule No.5. I'll certainly keep that in mind for any future sales transactions I find myself in.

I do find it odd that a person has to have been financially harmed before leaving feedback on the transaction but I don't want to run amiss of the rules and get yelled at by Kelama...again...;^)

And I know which of the two people involved in this non-transaction I'd trust in the future should I ever want to buy a used knife from either of them.

 

[benchwarmer380]

Well that's to bad. Let me know if you change your mind.
Armando,

I have to be honest, I'm still stinging over this one a little. I understand you realized you were asking less for this than what you paid and I respect that. With that said, what would you consider a fair price for this to complete the deal?

Brian


I'd have to get $175 net (175 Friends/180 Goods). After Priority Shipping…I would pocket $160 by my calculations…and even then, I'm not that thrilled considering that I paid $229 for it.
-Armando
I'll send $175 F&F. Thank you for making this right Armando.

Brian

What happened to "I'll do that if you agree"???? I'm sending your money right back. You should have waited for me to agree.
Wow, you have this posted for two days at $150 and when we agree to a deal you renig on it and when I give you a chance to make it right you pull this bullshit?? Nevermind. We'll just see what the members think.

I concede you are right in that he never said confirm.

However, it was asked what price was needed to complete the deal and a price was offered.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.