Problems with JCrow97

justsomedude said:
My 2¢:

There's a big difference between saying, "I'm not happy because of [...] I'd like to return it for a refund."
and "I'm not happy because of [...] and tried to fix it but couldn't, I'd like to return it..."

Not saying this is what happened here, but "both parties not happy = full refund" isn't so white and black.
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Actually it is - if you don't treat the exchange as a $25-an-year-money-making-enterprise. Buyers remorse, sure, happens - something that looks very attractive in photos may not look and feel that great in hand. Just undo the transaction and be happy. Both parties are wise for a shipping fee. If losing a few $$ to undo a transaction is an issue for you, then you probably have bigger problems to solve before trying the exchange.

As for this case, calling "pivot tightening" as "tampering" is like calling a brand new shoe pair "used" because a potential buyer tried it on and walked a few steps in a shoe shop. The case is black and white, if the buyer and seller did what they say they did (at least appears the buyer is stand up guy) - simple refund and enjoy other parts of the forum!
 
Well thank god you didn't use paypal gift as he originally wanted. Everytime I see that in the add or to add a percentage to cover fees I just move along, they already are happy to stick it to paypal why would they hesitate to do it to me.
 
If I was the Seller it would be simply, Refund the money to the buyer,
Send knife to be repaired/checked.
Then keep it, or put it back up for sale in terrific condition.
The little money you,d lose on shipping is less important than you reputation.
 
truth-seeker said:
If I was the Seller it would be simply, Refund the money to the buyer,
Send knife to be repaired/checked.
Then keep it, or put it back up for sale in terrific condition.
The little money you,d lose on shipping is less important than you reputation.
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Makes sense unless Jcrow already spent the money. Seems like a common theme is that the sale money is spent before the buyer can get the knife out of the box and do a 30 second check.
 
No communication or refund seen yet?? HMmmmmmmmmm
I will keep my 2 cents to myself how this is progressing.... Some one has to ssplainnning to doooooo .............
 
I haven't heard anything from PP yet.

Jason's initial refusal of a refund were based on what he claimed the moderators told him to do. Now that he has seen the general consensus should be to issue a refund, he still won't reply to my emails of inquiries.

Maybe if a moderator made it more clear to him that he should offer a refund it might speed things up a little bit. $1200 is a lot of money to be tied up.
 
I've already emailed with him, and I suggested he issue a refund. Seems as if you both have the same concerns. It's a very scary and expensive knife that isn't right for whatever reason. No one wants to take the time or initiative to get the item fixed, no one wants any responsibility for this item either, it's like a really bad game of "Hot Potato".
What I think is a better option for us (mods) to do in situations like this is state our opinion on the matter and let the people involved work things out. There is far too many of these threads coming up in the last few months and it burns one out in short order. I've stated my opinion on this topic, on the knives from that manufacturer, and so on. It doesn't make a difference to either party so, time will iron out the wrinkles.
 
Rev, I respect your opinion, and I appreciate the help you have tried to give.

It's a very scary and expensive knife that isn't right for whatever reason. No one wants to take the time or initiative to get the item fixed, no one wants any responsibility for this item either
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The knife isn't "right" because he sent me a misrepresented faulty $1200 knife. I informed him of it immediately upon receipt. I just don't know what else I could do. It's not about the time or energy of getting fixed, it's the fact when I go to resell it I am obligated to tell the buyer that it had to be sent in to be fixed. As we all know, that will drastically decrease the value of it right off the bat. Look through my sales history, I always lose money on every one of my sales. I like giving people good deals, but I don't think I should be responsible for his blatant disregard of the knife's faults.

I've tried to keep my temper and emotions in check throughout this, but I really don't see how what he is doing, isn't purely ripping me off, and a ban-able offense. I really don't think anyone believes that I screwed up the knife(how would I make it develop blade play) in the ten minutes I had it prior to emailing him about the problems. I specifically asked him to check if there was blade play, and he said there was none. He either didn't check, or realized there was and just lied to me. Either way that warrants a full refund.

Rev, can you tell me if there will be any action if I don't get to return it? Will he be infracted/banned? Would you feel comfortable trading or buying from him after this? Even if PP forces him to give a refund, is this the type of person you want on the boards? I've seen quite a few times where the Moderators will tell a member to issue a refund or they will be banned. I have seen none of that with this case.

I'm sorry but it almost feels like I'm not being believed. I have a solid track record with a lot of deals for very expensive knives. I have a lot of friends here and I have no reason to lie. If I buy a knife and I don't like it, I sell it. Its as simple as that. I don't ask for a return.
 
No, it's not at all that you aren't being believed. It's more of an incomplete picture overall. There are always 2 sides to the story. We aren't judges sitting on a bench. All we do is move threads and try to keep things flowing smoothly day to day. If Jcrow gets banned, there are no more potential lines of communication.

I'll consult with a couple other mods about this and see what can be done. In my opinion, there were some issues on both sides that raised questions for me personally. I'm not going to get into it here and now. Yes, if I sold a knife and the person was not not happy, I would refund them their money after I received the knife back. Only if it were not as described. Now, i wouldn't list a knife and omit details that are obviously going to be noticed either.

Yes, something will be done, we cannot and will not allow this to become the standard of how business is done here. Too many people now fail to think before buying or selling things, they don't ask questions, they use the gift option, and they turn to us expecting us to fix their lack of forsight. Again, I'm speaking in general terms not necessarily with this situation. Getting a refund should not be the equivalent of pulling teeth. That responsibility is going to fall back where it belongs, with the seller and buyer respectively.
 
Thank you, I appreciate you weighing in.

I'm not positive what I have done to raise questions, I know you suggested that I could of called him since it was such a high dollar knife. You are right, and maybe I should of, however it might not of made a difference. I still believe there is a chance he honestly over looked it, but it seems doubtful with how he has been acting after the fact.
 
As RevDevil said, banning too soon cuts off lines of communications and hardens attitudes. Not banning allows the people involved more time to think about how to resolve an unpleasant situation.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
As RevDevil said, banning too soon cuts off lines of communications and hardens attitudes. Not banning allows the people involved more time to think about how to resolve an unpleasant situation.
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I understand that, and I agree with you. I wasn't trying to call for his immediate ban, sorry if it came out that way. I just hadn't heard any talk about giving him any incentive for giving me a refund, and I was curious if this could warrant a ban.

Like I've said before, I never wanted to bring this to light, but I've been saved the hassle of dealing with people because someone took the time to let others know about bad behavior. I wanted to do the same here.
 
egally08 said:
Like I've said before, I never wanted to bring this to light, but I've been saved the hassle of dealing with people because someone took the time to let others know about bad behavior. I wanted to do the same here.
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Maybe leaving some negative feedback on his iTrader would helpful to others as it's right there under his post count and one of the first thing people see in a sale thread. I would think misrepresenting a $1200 knife and then refusing refund and forcing you to file a PP claim would warrant negative feedback.
 
sh00ter01 said:
Maybe leaving some negative feedback on his iTrader would helpful to others as it's right there under his post count and one of the first thing people see in a sale thread. I would think misrepresenting a $1200 knife and then refusing refund and forcing you to file a PP claim would warrant negative feedback.
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If I get a refund, there was no completed deal, therefore no feedback. Even if i did, nothing stops him from leaving retaliatory negative feedback.
 
egally08 said:
If I get a refund, there was no completed deal, therefore no feedback. Even if i did, nothing stops him from leaving retaliatory negative feedback.
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Because it is the right thing to do.....he is trying to take you for 1200, why would you worry about negative feedback from a guy like that?
 
No one wants to get negative feedback regardless who it's from. Not everyone is going to look into every situation when buying and selling. The point is, if there is no deal completed, there is no feedback to be left.

I can't say for sure if he intentionally lied to me about the knife or not. I'm not going to come in here and say that I'm for sure going to leave him negative. The deal isn't done yet, and I still have a hope to get my money back.
 
Egally08,

All due respect, I have no trouble believing that he sold you a knife that was not as described. He refuses to undo the deal and you are afraid to give him negative feedback?!

You were earlier asking the mods how they were gonna punish him but you don't want to give him negative feedback????

"Maybe if a moderator made it more clear to him that he should offer a refund it might speed things up a little bit. $1200 is a lot of money to be tied up."

You are not helping yourself here by insisting the mods to your heavy lifting. Your lack of backbone here will no doubt cost someone else a lot of aggravation. Man up.

Just the way I see it.

Best

PAW
 
For one, I'm not insisting anyone do anything. What don't you understand about no deal, no feedback? Since he acts inappropriately that gives me the right to? Circumventing the rules is your suggestion, and you state I have no backbone?

Please explain the "a lot of aggravation" I am causing someone by Possibly not leaving feedback? I am only going to leave feedback if I don't get a refund, because than a deal has been completed. That will in turn cause more aggravation because I will have to go to spark and try and get the negative he leaves me out of spite removed.
 
iTrader feedback should wait until the deal finished, unfortunately including this sort of argument in the middle of it. That's what the FEEDBACK forum is for. iTrader is the final statement, not an intermediate one.
 
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