Problems with UrFrndlyNebrhoodS AKA Ryan Posey

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Update:

I have received another 2 payments (total is $128.97 he has paid back now) from Ryan/Bryan. He has started sending them as goods/services because he does not want to "cheat" paypal by sending as gift. Obviously my main concern is 6 months down the road he files a paypal claim and gets his money back. He has said that he is doing this because the members of this forum have said sending via gift is not the way to go about it, so maybe the members in this thread can chime in with their thoughts.
 
Ryan-
It's unfortunate that some members think you were running a scam, trying to arrange a trade for the same knife with two different people.
Should be easy to prove them wrong though, just post a picture of both your bowies together.
 
spketch said:
Ryan-
It's unfortunate that some members think you were running a scam, trying to arrange a trade for the same knife with two different people.
Should be easy to prove them wrong though, just post a picture of both your bowies together.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Please post pictures of the 3 Bowies. The 2 you had in trade and the one you had listed for sale at the same time the trades were in progress.
 
UrFrndlyNebrhoodS said:
The WC on the other hand seems like a very sweet knife and was the one I was highly interested in trying. By "trying" I mean actually receiving it from ssgwhite, inspecting it, and if it was what he claimed it was, completing the deal. Period.
Click to expand...

Hi y'all... Long time listener, first time caller.

I have been following this thread and it has made some pretty tight twist along the way. This statement from Ryan Posey pretty much sums it up. I have a few years of translating bull crap as I was once married.

What he should of said was: I really wanted to check out the WC without committing 100%. By sending him the money I was merely sticking the tip in to get him to commit which was supposed to allow me enough time to play with his knife and make up my mind on if I liked it or not. After fondling his knife for a while I could simply ship him my knife or hold his knife ransom until he refunded my money.
 
Update:


Kyle.........if you are going to post and update and accuse me of trying to scam you to, please be honest and quote all and everything:



ME (8:12am) - Hi Kyle,


As agreed upon, I just sent you second and third part refunds. Please confirm you received when you get the chance and feel free to post your findings in "the thread".


Thank you,
Ryan

ME - Hi Kyle,



I also forgot to add.....you might want to consider doing a Postal Intercept as well for the Skyline. Ssgwhite seemed to have success with it and it will further insure your knife arrives safely back to you. Plus you already have insurance on the package so you should be protected till it makes its way back to you. In turn this will further lessen the chances that I be accused of tampering or not returning the knife back to you. If you have any questions about how to do it, I am sure ssgwhite would be willing to help you out. More payments to come........



Thank you,


KYLE - I got the last 2 payments. 1 was for $25 via gift, the other was standard goods/services(they took the fees) Can you please resend it as a gift and I will refund the goods/services back to you.


ME - Hi Kyle,



Fortunately it has come to my attention from other member's in "the thread" the true nature of the Gift vs. Standard payment option. They make really good arguments regarding the gift option as cheating or circumventing the standard rules and fees. Due to the situation where I am in and all the accusations/etc. at this point it is only in my best interest that I abide by those rules both on Bladeforums and Paypal and just send back the standard way. Rest assured, you will still get your full refund.


Thank you,


KYLE - No, it does not work that way. I sent you $151.50 ($1.50 fee) via gift and you recieved $150. If you had of clicked return for refund, I would of gotten my full amount back ($151.50)
I am not going to lose money on this because you spent my $150.00 and could not "refund" the money.

Furthermore, paypal protection covers you for 180 days, so in 6 months from now you could in theory file a claim and get your money back.

Because I paid you with gift, I think the only fair thing to do is pay me back in gift.

Thanks


ME - Hello,



Kyle, you sent me $150. I never once even asked you to do so in any of our correspondences. I never hinted or implied it either. I was honored that you did but you also circumvented Paypal's policies and fees as well. I do not judge. However, in this case and because I am in under the scrutiny that be I refused to further incriminate myself in any way/shape/form with either Bladeforums or Paypal. The fact that you imply I would go a dishonorable route in the end only shows you wish to join the masses which believe I am a criminal.

When it comes down to it I am not obligated to refund you the money. You sent it as a gift at your own accord. Again, I never implied nor asked for it. I really think you should count your lucky stars that I am not a real scammer or I would have taken your money and run. I am not giving you a refund based on the weight that it may affect my judgement whether or not I stay or go on Bladeforums. It is solely based on the person I am and how I believe people should be treated. If I were to do the dishonorable hypothetical thing you mentioned or never send back any money it would be a reflection on myself. To accuse someone of deception is one thing but to accuse someone of stealing is another altogether.

Hope you can take encouragement from this,
Ryan
 
spketch said:
Ryan-
It's unfortunate that some members think you were running a scam, trying to arrange a trade for the same knife with two different people.
Should be easy to prove them wrong though, just post a picture of both your bowies together.
Click to expand...

Checkmate.
 
UrFrndlyNebrhoodS said:
When it comes down to it I am not obligated to refund you the money. You sent it as a gift at your own accord.
Click to expand...

This is completely false from a legal standpoint, regardless of whether he violated PayPal's terms of services. The fact that he used the "gift" option does not in any way make the money he sent you a gift, a legal element of which is the actual intent for it to be a gift, which was clearly absent in the context of the transaction.
 
I think you're now jumping on the bandwagon of emotion. I suggest you take the money, end your conversations with him and reflect on this as a lesson learned.....on many fronts. If you continue to pursue this you're succumbing to peer pressure being brought on by members who obviously have far too much free time......

Kyle_4 said:
Update:

I have received another 2 payments (total is $128.97 he has paid back now) from Ryan/Bryan. He has started sending them as goods/services because he does not want to "cheat" paypal by sending as gift. Obviously my main concern is 6 months down the road he files a paypal claim and gets his money back. He has said that he is doing this because the members of this forum have said sending via gift is not the way to go about it, so maybe the members in this thread can chime in with their thoughts.
Click to expand...
 
I may be wrong in this, but if the money was sent as gift......what other intent is there?? For there to be some legal case brought against Ryan, Kyle_4 would have to admit he attempted to defraud Paypal by sending the money as gift when the intent wasn't to do so......seems to me as shaky legal standing.

brancron said:
This is completely false from a legal standpoint, regardless of whether he violated PayPal's terms of services. The fact that he used the "gift" option does not in any way make the money he sent you a gift, a legal element of which is the actual intent for it to be a gift, which was clearly absent in the context of the transaction.
Click to expand...
 
The other side of the coin could be that this was a trade (knife and some $) and not a purchase of goods or services, thus a gift may be legally justifiable. I.e. no one defrauded PayPal. I have no idea though, just a thought.
 
wjswiger said:
I may be wrong in this, but if the money was sent as gift......what other intent is there?? For there to be some legal case brought against Ryan, Kyle_4 would have to admit he attempted to defraud Paypal by sending the money as gift when the intent wasn't to do so......seems to me as shaky legal standing.
Click to expand...

There's the intent that it be sent as part of the transaction that's captured in all of the emails back and forth, which is in no way, shape or form a gift transaction.

The "defrauding" paypal thing is, besides being overstated, not very relevant. At most you could argue an "unclean hands" defense, but that would only be effective against equitable remedies. Also, violating paypal's terms of service is probably not the type of misconduct that could invoke such a defense in the first place.

The long and short of it is no, it's definitely not a gift.
 
Last edited:
I'm certainly no lawyer....as you apparently are....so to enter into a legal discussion would be pointless. Common sense, to me, would dictate that if you send the money as a gift you intended it to be a gift.....whether your covert intention was different or not. The email chain doesn't change the fact Kyle_4 willingly entered into this transaction with forethought to save Paypal fees.....this is the reason all the mod warnings, and all the sticky warnings exist......to alleviate this exact issue.


brancron said:
There's the intent that it be sent as part of the transaction that's captured in all of the emails back and forth, which is in no way, shape or form a gift transaction.

The "defrauding" paypal thing is, besides being overstated, not very relevant. At most you could argue an "unclean hands" defense, but that would only be effective against equitable remedies. Also, violating paypal's terms of service is probably not the type of misconduct that could invoke such a defense in the first place.

The long and short of it is no, it's definitely not a gift.
Click to expand...
 
The" fee" might be the result of using a credit card rather than your PayPal balance to send the" gift"
 
I would take a good LONG look at what is now currently under your user name before you speak again. Fix everything that people have issues with.... send all money back to people waiting, and then just walk away.

Also, please post a picture of all 3 of your bowies together with a note that has the date written on it please. That would be one step you could over come by showing everyone you had these extra bowies.......






UrFrndlyNebrhoodS said:
Update:


Kyle.........if you are going to post and update and accuse me of trying to scam you to, please be honest and quote all and everything:



ME (8:12am) - Hi Kyle,


As agreed upon, I just sent you second and third part refunds. Please confirm you received when you get the chance and feel free to post your findings in "the thread".


Thank you,
Ryan

ME - Hi Kyle,



I also forgot to add.....you might want to consider doing a Postal Intercept as well for the Skyline. Ssgwhite seemed to have success with it and it will further insure your knife arrives safely back to you. Plus you already have insurance on the package so you should be protected till it makes its way back to you. In turn this will further lessen the chances that I be accused of tampering or not returning the knife back to you. If you have any questions about how to do it, I am sure ssgwhite would be willing to help you out. More payments to come........



Thank you,


KYLE - I got the last 2 payments. 1 was for $25 via gift, the other was standard goods/services(they took the fees) Can you please resend it as a gift and I will refund the goods/services back to you.


ME - Hi Kyle,



Fortunately it has come to my attention from other member's in "the thread" the true nature of the Gift vs. Standard payment option. They make really good arguments regarding the gift option as cheating or circumventing the standard rules and fees. Due to the situation where I am in and all the accusations/etc. at this point it is only in my best interest that I abide by those rules both on Bladeforums and Paypal and just send back the standard way. Rest assured, you will still get your full refund.


Thank you,


KYLE - No, it does not work that way. I sent you $151.50 ($1.50 fee) via gift and you recieved $150. If you had of clicked return for refund, I would of gotten my full amount back ($151.50)
I am not going to lose money on this because you spent my $150.00 and could not "refund" the money.

Furthermore, paypal protection covers you for 180 days, so in 6 months from now you could in theory file a claim and get your money back.

Because I paid you with gift, I think the only fair thing to do is pay me back in gift.

Thanks


ME - Hello,



Kyle, you sent me $150. I never once even asked you to do so in any of our correspondences. I never hinted or implied it either. I was honored that you did but you also circumvented Paypal's policies and fees as well. I do not judge. However, in this case and because I am in under the scrutiny that be I refused to further incriminate myself in any way/shape/form with either Bladeforums or Paypal. The fact that you imply I would go a dishonorable route in the end only shows you wish to join the masses which believe I am a criminal.

When it comes down to it I am not obligated to refund you the money. You sent it as a gift at your own accord. Again, I never implied nor asked for it. I really think you should count your lucky stars that I am not a real scammer or I would have taken your money and run. I am not giving you a refund based on the weight that it may affect my judgement whether or not I stay or go on Bladeforums. It is solely based on the person I am and how I believe people should be treated. If I were to do the dishonorable hypothetical thing you mentioned or never send back any money it would be a reflection on myself. To accuse someone of deception is one thing but to accuse someone of stealing is another altogether.

Hope you can take encouragement from this,
Ryan
Click to expand...
 
wjswiger said:
I'm certainly no lawyer....as you apparently are....so to enter into a legal discussion would be pointless. Common sense, to me, would dictate that if you send the money as a gift you intended it to be a gift.....whether your covert intention was different or not. The email chain doesn't change the fact Kyle_4 willingly entered into this transaction with forethought to save Paypal fees.....this is the reason all the mod warnings, and all the sticky warnings exist......to alleviate this exact issue.
Click to expand...

I am a lawyer, and I agree that a legal discussion would be pointless, but I think it's clear from common sense alone that the intent was not for the money to be a gift. Someone's intent is gleaned from all the relevant circumstances surrounding the act, which in this case is the trade transaction. You could argue that his intent was to "defraud" paypal, but that his intent was to use the "gift" option in violation of paypal's terms of service, but there's zero question that the money was not intended as gift, because there was something of value offered in return by the other party. This is what they call in law "consideration."

Under California law, just to use it as a specific example (it's pretty much the same everywhere), a gift is defined as "a transfer of personal property, made voluntarily, and without consideration." (Cal. Civ. Code § 1146.)
 
Bcamos said:
What was the fee for? If the money was sent as "Gift" there is no fee at all.
Click to expand...

Heirphoto said:
The" fee" might be the result of using a credit card rather than your PayPal balance to send the" gift"
Click to expand...

The fee was for transferring money to the USA from Canada. If Ryan/Bryan had of hit "refund" on my $150 paypal would of refunded me my $150 + $1.50 fee. Instead he spent the money and did not send the bowie he had promised to send.
 
KeyeEl said:
Ouch. Sorry that happened to you. Makes me really wary of doing trades :thumbdn:
Click to expand...

I know this has been responded to already, but I just want to say, in all the trades I've done, on this forum, with or without feedback I've never been burned once. Hell the only bad experience was my own fault. I sold a sebenza and forgot to send the tracking on time... The buyer was understanding and extremely kind, considering. Don't let a bad person deter you!
 
Wow.... This guy is ridiculous.... If he gave you $150 why not give back $150.... You should like a total d**k in that last paragraph. Talking about I don't want to break any PayPal rules and stuff when in the first place you were scheming people. How do I put people on my ignore list? I've never done it before but this guy has to go in everyone's ignore list...
 
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