Product or Prototype?

bld522 said:
My only interest is in being treated fairly and respectfully. Telling me a product has won an award for product of the year and then not delivering the product is both unfair and disrespectful. It keeps other manufacturers whose products are available for sale from winning an award that should rightfully be there's. Worse still, it could cost them money if I decide not to purchase their product in anticipation of one that never arrives. I take exception to that and as far as I'm concerned, so should they.
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1. You are not ENTITLED to anything.
2. Booth holders at The Blade Show vote on the "...of the Year" knives, not sure who else does. The company that I work for has a booth there, and I will be at The Blade Show...will you?
3. Many of the manufacturers have knives that are in the prototype stage at the show, but they are certainly functional knives. Most if not all intend to bring the knives to market in 3rd or 4th quarter....you are suggesting they forfeit the award if they do not? That is not in the rules for entry, and until it is, they have committed no error, and thusly should not forfeit.
4. It is marketing...it is all marketing.....it is marketing for Blade, and it is marketing for the manufacturer. It is a system called symbiosis....it works well in nature, and works well in business.

If you don't know anything about business, you should start with that education before you start throwing stones at either Kai Corp or F+W publications.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
bld522 said:
Good question. Either way, Blade Magazine is the largest cutlery periodical extant and they run the biggest cutlery show in the country. So even if their awards are bought and paid for, what they say has impact.
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A prototype award does not have the same lightning strike effect as "Most Innovative Product of the Year". Yes they should have the additional prototype award like you suggest, but I personally don't believe that any award created by a Magazine Publisher is or could be unbiased.This my personal opinion. A Few of the ZT Le's do deserve some type of recognition and this is probably historical channel the industry has used to give such awards.
 
bld522 said:
But not compelling enough to overcome the fact that the award in its current form is a travesty.
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Travesty?
Really?
Life must be all cupcakes and sprinkles where you're living if this qualifies as a travesty.
 
Travesty is a nice way to say it. If I win an award for making the best product of the year but I can't deliver it and you can't buy it, what would you call it?
 
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bld522 said:
Travesty is a nice way to say it. If I win an award for making the best product of the year but I can't deliver it, what would you call it?
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The way life goes?
But I'm more laid back, perhaps.
There's so many real things to get upset about...and I generally don't care much about them either. :)
 
Im going to blade show this year, and I know I'm not going there to see the "awarded products". There are too many other reputable makers out there to see that didn't win any awards.

Good for KAI, life goes on...
 
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It seems to go that way with other products at times too though.
Game systems that get awards before you can buy them are one that springs to mind.
 
I definitely agree with you Bld522. These threads are often seen as "trolling" or "talking crap" about certain manufacturers, but who do they think buys their products? If the customer base isn't happy with a time frame, or gets disinterested with a product months before it's even out on the shelves because a manufacturer advertises a product too early in the development stage, it will cost the company money.

I hate to keep using Kershaw as an example for this, but they're one of the largest knife companys out there, so it's easy to point fingers. Their Emerson collabs were a HUGE announcement. When it was announced, that was the talk of the town around here. Tons of knives were pre-ordered, threads discussing them were active, and there was a general concensus of TAKE MY MONEY NOW! But now, 5 months later, nobody is talking about it. I had to bump a thread that was months old to ask for more information, which unfortunately yielded mediocre results as far as new information goes. I realize that 4 months isn't a long time, but the frenzy of people talking about the knives is practically zero now. The saying "strike while the iron is hot" comes to mind, especially with lower priced run of the mill production knives. The competition is fierce in this market, especially in that price point.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's a difference between complaining and constructive criticism. I'm not trying to tell KAI how to run a business, they've already proven they're a successful company, and they've always treated me well. However, the fact that they get mad when customers want their products so bad they have to vent on a public forum, they need to handle it differently. I always enjoyed their threads in the past with pictures from the production line, small tidbits of information, just enough to keep everyone involved in the process. If that's too much to ask of them, it may be too much to ask your loyal customer base to drop $300+ on your products. But that's only my opinion.
 
00ChevyScott said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's a difference between complaining and constructive criticism. I'm not trying to tell KAI how to run a business, they've already proven they're a successful company, and they've always treated me well. However, the fact that they get mad when customers want their products so bad they have to vent on a public forum, they need to handle it differently. I always enjoyed their threads in the past with pictures from the production line, small tidbits of information, just enough to keep everyone involved in the process. If that's too much to ask of them, it may be too much to ask your loyal customer base to drop $300+ on your products. But that's only my opinion.
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FYI, the Emerson Kershaw knives will sell out on arrival and there will be a lag in getting more....buzz or not....the WalMart/Amazon effect will take care of that.

Loyalty? Let's talk about loyalty.

The lowest common denominator knives sell extremely well, are extremely easy to produce(China, alphabet steel, low cost synthetic handles, cheap labor....) and they make the most profit.

To use Spyderco as an example...they didn't stop producing Paramilitary II knives because people wanted a great quality ergonomically superior knife made in the US, even though it causes the most complaints that they are not in stock, and they make less money on them..the Byrd knives could have really kept everything nice and profitable..they did it for the fans, man!

That is the SAME reason that Kershaw/KAI produces these super cool knives that everyone wants(eventually), why they sell for twice what retail is on ebay, and why, even though they create the most complaints and pain to produce.....they keep doing it. It's for the fans, man! It isn't for the money....and for a business to produce product that is harder to make, and results in less profit...that is LOYALTY!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
FYI, the Emerson Kershaw knives will sell out on arrival and there will be a lag in getting more....buzz or not....the WalMart/Amazon effect will take care of that.

Loyalty? Let's talk about loyalty.

The lowest common denominator knives sell extremely well, are extremely easy to produce(China, alphabet steel, low cost synthetic handles, cheap labor....) and they make the most profit.

To use Spyderco as an example...they didn't stop producing Paramilitary II knives because people wanted a great quality ergonomically superior knife made in the US, even though it causes the most complaints that they are not in stock, and they make less money on them..the Byrd knives could have really kept everything nice and profitable..they did it for the fans, man!

That is the SAME reason that Kershaw/KAI produces these super cool knives that everyone wants(eventually), why they sell for twice what retail is on ebay, and why, even though they create the most complaints and pain to produce.....they keep doing it. It's for the fans, man! It isn't for the money....and for a business to produce product that is harder to make, and results in less profit...that is LOYALTY!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I think Gerber is a prime example of what happens when a great company stops producing great products and switches to mass producted foreign made products. They're still in business and probably make more money now, but their reputation is toast.
 
00ChevyScott said:
I think Gerber is a prime example of what happens when a great company stops producing great products and switches to mass producted foreign made products. They're still in business and probably make more money now, but their reputation is toast
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Reputation does not mean anything in modern-day successful companies unless there is significant profit attached.

Gerber has no high end knives to produce, not anymore.

We sell an incredible amount of automatic Gerbers, they are US made by mandate, not inexpensive, and QC is problematic.

Kai is NOT turning their back on loyal consumers, I know this at an organic level....what Kai Corp does in the Kershaw iteration is ask that those loyal, remain loyal....keep the faith, and you will be rewarded with great knives. Has this not been the case?

The fact that in this day and age that you can buy a Kershaw production knife and sell it for WAY more than you paid for it, if you buy the right piece, escapes most buyers simply focused on the availability of that knife.

It boggles my mind that it is not considered that the situation exists to begin with. It means that Kai doesn't charge enough $$$$ for prevailing market conditions that they created in the first place.

How is that loyalty and consideration constantly repaid? Complaints and criticisms. Why not just be happy and grateful? Is that really too much to ask?

In a world filled with true arrogance and disregard for the NEEDS of the consumer, Kai/Kershaw tends towards to the WANTS of the appreciative consumer, trying to make something better that doesn't NEED to be better.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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I somewhat agree with the OP. I guess it would be like the ford bronco getting SUV of the year when they showed it off 5 or 10 years ago or whenever, but it never made it to production, because it was a prototype. I'd still love to have that damn thing! I know it's apples to oranges, and the 0454 will eventually be on shelves, but I see where your coming from. Show the design, win the award, and have a reasonable release date with supply ready, like say, an iphone? I know, much different industry, but we can dream.
 
bld522 said:
At the 2013 Blade Show, ZT won the "Most Innovative Product of the Year" award for the 0454 folder.
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The award is actually called "overall knife of the year" which gives no indication weather or not it will be a production knife. It is a prototype showcasing the companies abilities. Nor should be such stipulations that would limit the competing knife companies when considering such innovative designs. Same thing happens in the automobile industry. The prototypes may lead to a similar production car down the road.

The way you worded the award I can see why folks would feel it unfair that the winning design be produced in a timely manner. I personally don't see how one could interpret Most Innovative Product of The Year out of the actual name of the award, Overall Knife of The Year.

The thread appears to serve no purpose except to bait frustrated knife nuts into trying to make rules for Blade's awards.
 
Whatever the name of the award, it seems to be given to acknowledge the excellence of the design of a prototype knife, nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing posted in this forum will have any influence on KAI's production schedule. This "discussion" is just a hazy, rhetorical fantasy.
 
I think simply being called overall knife of the year, gives a lot more leeway to whom they give the award to.

Just saying...
 
So...the award is "Overall Knife Of The Year" not "Most Innovative Product of the Year", eh?

ZT seems to have fulfilled the semantic nuance requirement, yes?
 
Kohai999 said:
Reputation does not mean anything in modern-day successful companies unless there is significant profit attached.

Gerber has no high end knives to produce, not anymore.

We sell an incredible amount of automatic Gerbers, they are US made by mandate, not inexpensive, and QC is problematic.

Kai is NOT turning their back on loyal consumers, I know this at an organic level....what Kai Corp does in the Kershaw iteration is ask that those loyal, remain loyal....keep the faith, and you will be rewarded with great knives. Has this not been the case?

The fact that in this day and age that you can buy a Kershaw production knife and sell it for WAY more than you paid for it, if you buy the right piece, escapes most buyers simply focused on the availability of that knife.

It boggles my mind that it is not considered that the situation exists to begin with. It means that Kai doesn't charge enough $$$$ for prevailing market conditions that they created in the first place.

How is that loyalty and consideration constantly repaid? Complaints and criticisms. Why not just be happy and grateful? Is that really too much to ask?

In a world filled with true arrogance and disregard for the NEEDS of the consumer, Kai/Kershaw tends towards to the WANTS of the appreciative consumer, trying to make something better that doesn't NEED to be better.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Great post...too many think they're entitled.

I know a couple that work hard to get the ZT line to us....some act like it's a malicious act if a knife doesn't make production on time.
 
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