Product or Prototype?

Kohai999 said:
Reputation does not mean anything in modern-day successful companies unless there is significant profit attached.

Gerber has no high end knives to produce, not anymore.

We sell an incredible amount of automatic Gerbers, they are US made by mandate, not inexpensive, and QC is problematic.

Kai is NOT turning their back on loyal consumers, I know this at an organic level....what Kai Corp does in the Kershaw iteration is ask that those loyal, remain loyal....keep the faith, and you will be rewarded with great knives. Has this not been the case?

The fact that in this day and age that you can buy a Kershaw production knife and sell it for WAY more than you paid for it, if you buy the right piece, escapes most buyers simply focused on the availability of that knife.

It boggles my mind that it is not considered that the situation exists to begin with. It means that Kai doesn't charge enough $$$$ for prevailing market conditions that they created in the first place.

How is that loyalty and consideration constantly repaid? Complaints and criticisms. Why not just be happy and grateful? Is that really too much to ask?

In a world filled with true arrogance and disregard for the NEEDS of the consumer, Kai/Kershaw tends towards to the WANTS of the appreciative consumer, trying to make something better that doesn't NEED to be better.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Absolutely brilliant.

You know bld522, I was at Blade Show last year, and handled the 0454 as well as the other knives that were entered for awards. That's how it goes, by the way. Companies and makers enter their knives for award consideration. Physical knives are placed in a large display unit on the show floor. They were all actually produced, so they're products anyway. However, as it was already pointed out, your assertion that it was "Most Innovative Product of the Year" is a falsehood.

Kai made the 0454 and submitted it for consideration for the award. The award was given for the knife that was presented, and that's essentially the end of the arrangement.

What exactly is your motivation for trying to start this kind of nonsense? I'm curious, because you pop up every now and then with some malarkey that revolves around Kershaw/ZT. This time, in particular, seems teeming with thinly veiled resentment and vitriol and only gains traction when you change the wording of the award to suit your purposes.

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
sticktodrum said:
Absolutely brilliant.

You know bld522, I was at Blade Show last year, and handled the 0454 as well as the other knives that were entered for awards. That's how it goes, by the way. Companies and makers enter their knives for award consideration. Physical knives are placed in a large display unit on the show floor. They were all actually produced, so they're products anyway. However, as it was already pointed out, your assertion that it was "Most Innovative Product of the Year" is a falsehood.

Kai made the 0454 and submitted it for consideration for the award. The award was given for the knife that was presented, and that's essentially the end of the arrangement.

What exactly is your motivation for trying to start this kind of nonsense? I'm curious, because you pop up every now and then with some malarkey that revolves around Kershaw/ZT. This time, in particular, seems teeming with thinly veiled resentment and vitriol and only gains traction when you change the wording of the award to suit your purposes.

Curiouser and curiouser.
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He should be a politician. :D
 
2 shot said:
The award is actually called "overall knife of the year" which gives no indication weather or not it will be a production knife. It is a prototype showcasing the companies abilities. Nor should be such stipulations that would limit the competing knife companies when considering such innovative designs. Same thing happens in the automobile industry. The prototypes may lead to a similar production car down the road.

The way you worded the award I can see why folks would feel it unfair that the winning design be produced in a timely manner. I personally don't see how one could interpret Most Innovative Product of The Year out of the actual name of the award, Overall Knife of The Year.

The thread appears to serve no purpose except to bait frustrated knife nuts into trying to make rules for Blade's awards.
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Whooosh, the straw man goes up in flames. LOL.
 
What i took away from this thread:
what-patients-want.jpg


When a company submits a prototype there is no commitment on delivery of the product as a qualification. We dont know at what state of design they were at when they took the 454 to the show. They may have produced a handful of prototypes but there is still alot to do to gear up for production. Add to that making a large run with not two but three pieces of the blade to weld together. When the blade ships I will buy it, until then the joy is in the expectation and pursuit.....besides, once you have it in hand, its time for the next grail to chase;-)
 
I don't get the point of this thread, it's just sophisticated whining. The levels people go to make their complains heard is mind boggling.

Steve, I haven't read a post like that on BF in a very long time, I salute you sir....telling it like it is!
 
This thread really needs to be moved to the bitch n moan section b/c I mean that's all that's goin on here, and at any rate I'm sure the 454 will be released soon, and you haters probably won't even try to get one anyway. You want it cause it's not here and then when it does come oh I just can't see spending that much or you buy it and flip it. Just stop everyone has seen the threads ZT knows what's up, and by now so does everyone so just deal with it.
 
This thread is pretty sad since, as has been pointed out, it is based on something that is less than a half truth. The OP should really try to get their facts straight before they post this drivel. It might actually have been an interesting point of discussion had it been based on factual information instead of biased delusions. I think we can be damn sure that Kai works hard to get knives they show off at trade shows, to market in a timely fashion. More often than not we see people here and on other forums complaining that Kai has been shipping too many new models in a short time frame (gotta get more funds together posts). Many of these knives seem to be reasonably priced and available in quantities that allow anyone to get one. Well, what about the award winning limited edition ones? Guess what, they are limited editions, which means that not everyone will be able to get one, or possibly afford one. Generally they are award winning because they are innovative, and bring something new to the knife world. This can mean they may be difficult to mass produce, as new production techniques may need to be worked out. (And yes, 250-1,000 is still mass produced, ask any custom knifemaker). Don't forget while this is going on, all those reasonably priced, readily available knives are still being cranked out, so big surprise, there may be delays on a complicated LE model.

It would have been a truly simple task to look up the actual name of the award as well as who does the actual voting. It is all posted on the Blade web site. The fact that the awards are voted by actual exhibitors of the show means that the award winners were chosen by their peers, and not by editors influenced by advertising money as was hinted not too subtly at.

Actually if any of the speculators had bothered to look they would also see that there is actually going to be a People's Choice Award for Knife of the Year, this year.

http://www.blademag.com/blade-show/blade-show-announces-new-knife-year-award

That linked page also briefly explains the voting for the other awards.

I'll go ahead and quote that bit for the benefit of those that clearly can't be bothered to do their own research.

Only factory knife and factory knife accessory companies with booths at the BLADE Show are eligible to enter the competition for the BLADE Magazine Knife-Of-The-Year Awards.
The 13 other awards are voted on by BLADE Show booth exhibitors, with the exception of the Publisher’s Award and the Industry Achievement Award, which are named by the staff of BLADE®t.
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The ZT 0454 won "Overall Knife of the Year" for 2013
No were does it say "Product" in the award title.


"Most Innovative Imported Design" CRKT Ken Onion Swindle
"Most Innovative American Design" *Microtech D.O.C. Kill Switch


I doubt any rules were broken. Other wise it would have never made to the judging aspect of the competition.
 
I like how people are attacking the OP. He has a good point. How can you win overall product of the year if it is not a product? Products can't really be called products if they aren't being sold (by definition it is a product once it is made). You can't call something the product of the year if it is not sold that year. Can the 2015 Mustang get an award for overall car of the year in 2013? No. A knife produced and sold in 2014 or 2015 can't be the 2013 product of the year.

If a product isn't slated to be in market that year, it should not be allowed to be in the running. If a knife existing at the time or not isn't a factor, then why not name the 801 knife of the year for 2000? Lets name some kind of phase blade that will be out in 2100 knife of the year for next year, since being in the market the year it wins the award doesn't matter.

If your knife won't be in market that year, leave the award for knives that are good and in the market that year. A lot of cool knives were made in 2013 that were actually sold and therefore more deserving of knife of the year.
 
dkb45 your point was already invalidated, read the post before yours perhaps, or maybe one of the others that already refuted your assertion.
 
dkb45 said:
I like how people are attacking the OP. He has a good point. How can you win overall product of the year if it is not a product? Products can't really be called products if they aren't being sold (by definition it is a product once it is made). You can't call something the product of the year if it is not sold that year. Can the 2015 Mustang get an award for overall car of the year in 2013? No. A knife produced and sold in 2014 or 2015 can't be the 2013 product of the year.

If a product isn't slated to be in market that year, it should not be allowed to be in the running. If a knife existing at the time or not isn't a factor, then why not name the 801 knife of the year for 2000? Lets name some kind of phase blade that will be out in 2100 knife of the year for next year, since being in the market the year it wins the award doesn't matter.

If your knife won't be in market that year, leave the award for knives that are good and in the market that year. A lot of cool knives were made in 2013 that were actually sold and therefore more deserving of knife of the year.
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I like how you didn't even read most of this thread. Other people made better points.

Also, this whole "product" argument no sense. The OP seems to have convinced a few people (initially himself) that assigning a narrowly convenient meaning to the word is evidence of sketchy practices. It's disappointing how easily people's B.S. detectors are led astray when someone pretends to be offering some backhanded, pseudo-constructive criticism.
 
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If it was any other knife company you wouldn't give a dam.. I wish I had the free time that I could care about petty stuff like this.
 
I dont know why anyone is attacking anyone. Op has a point they win on a knife you cannot get that year. Doesnt make common sense. Is it a big deal no. Its 2014 about to be blade show where is that zt model not in existence. The microtech that won was out that year. Just a simple discussion if it makes sense or not. Op doesnt like zt dont matter some of you defend kai like you work for them. Like this thread is going to cause them to loose profit. In the end its really up for the people that run Blade Show to make the rules. If they say thats fine so be it. Their show their rules they run the biggest show in the industry and do alot for the community good enough for me. But does it make sense to me not really. The knife industry doesnt run on my opinion (which sucks lmao) or anyone else who is typing in this thread. Its just something for us to B.S. about. No need to get panties in a bunch.
 
I'm not sure why the back and forth on this is so heated; it may not be a big deal, but it does seem like a legitimately bizarre thing.

If a movie studio made a great trailer for a movie that will be released to theaters in 2015-2016, would it make sense for that movie to win this year's best picture award?

It may not be something serious like curing cancer, solving world hunger, or finding the solution to why people are still buying Gerber products, but it's a valid question.

Also, why is this seen as an attack on Kai? Wouldn't the blade folks be the ones to blame for picking an as yet-unavailable, future knife model for an award?
 
evilgreg said:
I'm not sure why the back and forth on this is so heated; it may not be a big deal, but it does seem like a legitimately bizarre thing.

If a movie studio made a great trailer for a movie that will be released to theaters in 2015-2016, would it make sense for that movie to win this year's best picture award?

It may not be something serious like curing cancer, solving world hunger, or finding the solution to why people are still buying Gerber products, but it's a valid question.

Also, why is this seen as an attack on Kai? Wouldn't the blade folks be the ones to blame for picking an as yet-unavailable, future knife model for an award?
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I actually like your analogy but you applied it incorrectly. The zt0454 exists, I've held it. Just because the general public doesn't have one yet doesn't mean there isn't a real, completely functional one out there at Kai HQ.

If they showed a rendering of a prototype, that might be more like winning an award for a trailer.

The fact is, small independent movies will release in one theater the week before the Oscar deadline in order for it to qualify. Some of those movies will either never see wide release to the general public or may be released after the Oscars.
 
The 0454 fails by the second requirement of a "product", Scurvy. Not only does it have to exist, but somebody somewhere has to be able to buy it. Now if you can show me where anybody anywhere can buy an 0454, I will concede that it's a product. Otherwise it's a prototype, not a product, and should be ineligible to win an award given to products by definition. Capiche?
 
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