Product or Prototype?

At newdebate's request, please interpret all of my references to the 0454 as the ZT 0454. Thanks. :)
 
bld522 said:
The 0454 fails by the second requirement of a "product", Scurvy. Not only does it have to exist, but somebody somewhere has to be able to buy it. Now if you can show me where anybody anywhere can buy an 0454, I will concede that it's a product. Otherwise it's a prototype, not a product, and should be ineligible to win an award given to products by definition. Capiche?
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As opposed to your failure by starting a thread about an award that doesn't exist?
Your definition of product is flawed, yours is only one of many possible definitions. For instance the award you named in the OP is a "product" of your imagination, I don't buy it.

By the way, the ZT 0454 is has most definitely been in in the process of and actually in production during the course of the year since winning the award. By definition something in production by a manufacturer is a product.
In this case not yet a shipping product, but a product nonetheless. I suspect that the shipping part of that will be rectified by ZT pretty soon.
 
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Ignoring the semantics/wording, if all manufactures operate under the same rules then I see no "travesty". I'm not familiar with the rules or how the voting process is done, but as long as all manufactures have an equal opportunity the award losses no weight/importance in my book. Maybe Blade should do more to define and explain the award but to say it's unfair and disrespectful is an unfair assessment. What really is disrespectful is the talk about bias.
 
bld522 said:
The 0454 fails by the second requirement of a "product", Scurvy. Not only does it have to exist, but somebody somewhere has to be able to buy it. Now if you can show me where anybody anywhere can buy an 0454, I will concede that it's a product. Otherwise it's a prototype, not a product, and should be ineligible to win an award given to products by definition. Capiche?
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Blade Show is where companies show off products that are going to be released in the future. It's a show. They have no time line when they will come out. They show off prototypes. Same things at Auto shows, electronic shows etc etc.. Many companies show things that don't come out for months and even years. It's the nature of the beast. Many things factor when it can be available or even come out. Materials available, production space, getting tooling and machines setup etc.. Also if something isn't well received a company may scrap the product entirely. The award is based on what is shown at that time. Not whether it was made as soon as the show is over. I for one like that ZT takes there time. Bad things come to products that are rushed.
 
C'mon all, really.... common sense tells me, if a knife should be considered for "Knife of the year" it should be in production that year. Further more, it should be in production at the time the aware is given, not later that year or two or three years from now, or who knows when. It's silly that you cannot buy the 2012 knife of the year until 2014. If that knife is not ready for production, let it win the award next year, or the year after, when it is.

I am not talking any trash on KAI, I love ZT. But this just seems to make sense. This is constructive criticism and not an attach. It is kind of like the college football debate over the bowl game format or changing to a play off system. It makes sense that you cant crown a national champion without a play off. I think this is very similar (and look what happened with that). Will they make the change to the rules? Who knows. But they should. You can argue that it's marketing, but I think most knife enthusiasts would agree with me and would like to see the change. It's just common sense. They can still have awards for prototypes but call it something else and give the knife of the year award to best knife of that year.
 
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ericvar101 said:
C'mon all, really.... common sense tells me, if a knife should be considered for "Knife of the year" it should be in production that year. Further more, it should be in production at the time the aware is given, not later that year or two or three years from now, or who knows when. It's silly that you cannot buy the 2012 knife of the year until 2014. If that knife is not ready for production, let it win the award next year, or the year after, when it is. . . . It's just common sense.
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As the saying goes, common sense is uncommon. :)
 
You sir, are insufferable. Maybe you should start your own knife company with your own designs that are reviewed and by your own magazine that win awards given at your yearly knife show because the folks that have been doing it for years clearly haven't a clue.
 
I've read this whole thread, and have to admit that I'm not sure what the point of this is. Other companies are still showing their products at these trade shows, so I'm not sure you're able to quantify what NOT winning this "of the year" award does to those other companies' product sales. Every knife mag I've ever seen tends to show a full spread of the product highlights. It's not like they just show the knife who won, then call it a day. :confused:
 
daveb068 said:
You sir, are insufferable. Maybe you should start your own knife company with your own designs that are reviewed and by your own magazine that win awards given at your yearly knife show because the folks that have been doing it for years clearly haven't a clue.
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TRAVESTY!:rolleyes: lol....This is going down hill...
 
Would ABSURD work better? And yes, this thread will probably end up in W&C at some point. But I expect that as people who can't argue the message invariably attack the messenger.

Carry on. :)
 
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Neither is accurate...I did argue the message at an earlier point in this thread, seems to have fallen on deaf ears (would it be blind eyes?) as much of this thread has.
 
Topcatpt said:
I dont know why anyone is attacking anyone. Op has a point they win on a knife you cannot get that year. Doesnt make common sense. Is it a big deal no.
Its 2014 about to be blade show where is that zt model not in existence. The microtech that won was out that year. Just a simple discussion if it makes sense or not. Op doesnt like zt dont matter some of you defend kai like you work for them. Like this thread is going to cause them to loose profit. In the end its really up for the people that run Blade Show to make the rules. If they say thats fine so be it. Their show their rules they run the biggest show in the industry and do alot for the community good enough for me. But does it make sense to me not really. The knife industry doesnt run on my opinion (which sucks lmao) or anyone else who is typing in this thread. Its just something for us to B.S. about. No need to get panties in a bunch.
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I don't get it either. No reason for the attacks.
It seems if you mention anything in this room other than something 100% positive about KIA it always winds up this way.
I wish they still had their own forum.

ericvar101 said:
C'mon all, really.... common sense tells me, if a knife should be considered for "Knife of the year" it should be in production that year.

I am not talking any trash on KAI, I love ZT. But this just seems to make sense. This is constructive criticism and not an attach.
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I think for anything to be considered for an "of the year" award the product should be out that year.
Seems like commen sense, but if Blade let's them get by with it they'll keep doing it.

In the end it's no big deal at all, as it's just a very small part of the Blade show. I don't think many care all that much about these awards. Some years I don't even swing by to see who won them.
 
newdebate said:
I'd say the op is trolling.
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So, let me see if I have this correct. You just joined this board, have ten posts, and you're saying that someone in good standing, who's been a (contributing AND paying) member of this board for like, a decade and who has thousands of posts is trolling?

Really? :yawn:
 
Quiet said:
So, let me see if I have this correct. You just joined this board, have ten posts, and you're saying that someone in good standing, who's been a (contributing AND paying) member of this board for like, a decade and who has thousands of posts is trolling?

Really? :yawn:
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:D ^^^ Whatever else may be said about the thread, this is a win. :thumbup:
 
I see that the ones who look at the topic with some objectivity can have varying opinions. Some think it doesnt make sense, some think it's not a big deal, maybe a combination of both etc etc. can disagree with the OP without attacking him. The ones who are passionate about ZT are passionate with their responses, it doesnt take much provocation does it? OP isnt the biggest ZT rider out there, I get that but even if you view this as a veiled attack on the brand to elicit your classic ZT fan comebacks, Im sure in his mind he is content... Got his topic out and his point across, didnt attack anyone back which I think is by design LOL.
 
I own quite a few ZT's and like them very much. I am not that fond of the 0454 though - if they kept it a one piece satin/stonewash blade like the Sinkevich prototype, it would have been a winner (and a bonus for using blue anodized hardware).

But yeah, I think it is odd to win a product award for something so distant from hitting the market.
 
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