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What model was that? Any photo more than welcome!
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Question for military or ex military personnel (soldiers)
- Thread starter Seriousbladeno1
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What model was that? Any photo more than welcome!
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Thanks for sharing your experience! ,so if you was deployed again, you would still carry fixed blade... Do you mind, if I ask you, what is the reason for carrying fixed blades - from your own experience and point of view?
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Someone mentioned having a folder on the vest... I carried a Cuda Dominator (until it fell off in combat) replaced by an OIF Native on my IBA. Microtech D/A Socom was in my pocket.
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Rustyrazor, thank you, I am always glad to have discussion with people, who try to understand opposite views and are able to communicate peacefully without putting others down, just because of disagreements. As soldiers, we were learn how to surpass individual thinking and do, what command dictated, without questioning or reasoning, (this I never liked about military service) there were others for thinking, we were there to do things no matter what...In my opinion, everything must be questioned and everything what we do must have valid reason, every our decision must be thought hrough. That's why, we were given brain, to be clever and do things efficient way, with best possible effect.Most of people are followers from nature and there are only few born to be - leaders, thinkers.Therefore,it doesn't mean that 100 guys will go left and will say to me to follow them, first thing I ll do is question them why and what for....if I don't get sufficient answer I may turn arround and go back, or turn right instead, without feeling any remorse about that, because I am individual beforehand and only healthy and thinking individuals able to communicate and understand others can make good team that will succeed,in whatever require team work (military work for example) ,otherwise this team is never gonna work and progress anywhere, but sure destruction and failure.
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I do respect these guys, so as their opinions and issued raised, with most of them I fully agree, but not all of them. Multitool or folder will do 90% of casual needs and day to day tasks, but when "highly unlikely" situations will cross our path,,,, we may pray to gods to send us one at them moments. Despite highly unlikely events - they still do occure and better be ready for them than lazy to carry few ounces more than necessary....
I have and always had deep respect to all men,who work in high risk jobs, risking their own lives daily, just to feed the family, or for sake of other lives... Whether these guys are firefighters, soldiers, bodyguards, law enforcement, or working in any job that present high risk. I value highly all experiences they share to advice others, because they know best what works, what doesn't...i won't repeat, what I allready mentioned, I gladly take advice into account,however still have own individual thinking that served me well so far for entire life. Simply to be said - guys who does not like fixed blades don't have to agree or disagree with anyone and can carry multitools for every combat theatre included close quarter combat,,, it is their own lifes they go with into that combat with multitools....not mine.When something highly unlikely happend to me, it will be my life and I won't bring Leatherman with me, because I d love to stay alive and be prepared, that's my reason to carry fixed blade in discussed scenarios... For some, i may sound full of fantasies, for me, many others are horribly wrong and full of fantasies... On the end of the day - it is ONLY YOU responsible for your own life, nobody else. It's up to you to defend it, or make a mistake and give it up.
It's not just altitude but air density. Altitude is but one component concerning air density. A given helicopter lifting to a given altitude will be able to lift different loads depending on where on the Earth it is and the season.
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edit: this was in response to post # 144.
that's part of the issue with the eons old model of a military in general... it was never traditionally meant to have a lot of thinkers. the old theory was to take you to the breaking point, so you felt weak and beaten, like breaking a wild stallion and therefore much like the aforementioned steed, they could get you to bend to their will and train you to listen to them without really having to think or the reason to question. This made a lot of sense when you were trying to get masses of people to do things that would seem insane if you were to try and explain to the soldiers what it was you were trying to accomplish and at what cost a "victory" would come. Even the most mentally inept of us has a deep seated resistance to running into a situation that has a whatever % chance of dying and an even higher chance of being injured or crippled, and the way around this was that brainwashing mentality that used to be the norm. These days i think, it's getting harder to just holler orders at people like the old days. There are a lot more educated and or free thinking people joining the military now and as such there are a lot more people who want to know the why and what of a situation, i know i did and that's a big part of why i went into the sof community. Although the final decision rests with the boss, I get to be a part of the planning and risk mitigation of the situation we will be tackling whatever it is and that instills more confidence in me and allows me to have that "by in" of the plan. For me this lets me feel comfortable and confident that although not everyone on our side will always come out without a scratch, at least every situation we could think of has been brought up and discussed at length and whether it's my idea used or someone elses, at least my opinion is considered and i know the plan was made by a conglomeration of experienced folks that i trust, who can collectively think of a lot more issues and solutions to skin whatever particular cat than even the best of military strategists can do alone. who knows? maybe i'm wrong and the best way to win a war is to send wave after wave of our country's men and women to their fate until one side or the other loses the will to stay in it or runs out of resources.
that's part of the issue with the eons old model of a military in general... it was never traditionally meant to have a lot of thinkers. the old theory was to take you to the breaking point, so you felt weak and beaten, like breaking a wild stallion and therefore much like the aforementioned steed, they could get you to bend to their will and train you to listen to them without really having to think or the reason to question. This made a lot of sense when you were trying to get masses of people to do things that would seem insane if you were to try and explain to the soldiers what it was you were trying to accomplish and at what cost a "victory" would come. Even the most mentally inept of us has a deep seated resistance to running into a situation that has a whatever % chance of dying and an even higher chance of being injured or crippled, and the way around this was that brainwashing mentality that used to be the norm. These days i think, it's getting harder to just holler orders at people like the old days. There are a lot more educated and or free thinking people joining the military now and as such there are a lot more people who want to know the why and what of a situation, i know i did and that's a big part of why i went into the sof community. Although the final decision rests with the boss, I get to be a part of the planning and risk mitigation of the situation we will be tackling whatever it is and that instills more confidence in me and allows me to have that "by in" of the plan. For me this lets me feel comfortable and confident that although not everyone on our side will always come out without a scratch, at least every situation we could think of has been brought up and discussed at length and whether it's my idea used or someone elses, at least my opinion is considered and i know the plan was made by a conglomeration of experienced folks that i trust, who can collectively think of a lot more issues and solutions to skin whatever particular cat than even the best of military strategists can do alone. who knows? maybe i'm wrong and the best way to win a war is to send wave after wave of our country's men and women to their fate until one side or the other loses the will to stay in it or runs out of resources.
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Very well written :thumbup: Rustyrazor
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So may I ask what Military combat unit you are part of? If you aren't a soldier currently, when will you will be joining? What theater will your combat unit be operating in? In what areas will you personally be expected to encounter insurgents?
You just seem really sure of your fantasy scenario for someone who's never been in combat.
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As i stated earlier on,I served mandatory military service in middle of Europe at Para.regiment S.O.intervention unit of rapid response...At the time we were never deployed in actuall warfare.
By the way, one doesn't need to be in military at all,natural common sense can recognise what is obvious....I am not taking your opinion away from you,neither want to take any sides in this discussion,let alone trying to convince way more experienced guys into my own beliefs. I have deep respect for those who BTDT and formed their own convenience how to go about nights and days in variety of warfare theatres.
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Mr. Quiet, I don't want to be rude, but it may come off as that, so with all due respect, you seem persistent on pushing the same "fantasy" counterpoint as if what he's saying doesn't have a chance of happening or maybe he's simply not allowed to question whoever happens to disagree. From what i've noticed, he's being very polite to everyone and even a few people who don't seem to have a positive thing to say, so i don't understand your negativity. can you please go back and point out these fantasy scenarios you mention? i just skimmed all 8 pages and didn't' really see anything right out to lunch... not saying something might not have been, i just may have missed it. I also looked to see where people thought that a fixed blade was useless to the modern day soldier and other than people saying it's generally less important in the current theatre than it was in the past or saying a multitool is more useful, i don't think anyone said fixed blades were useless. again, maybe i missed it... it's funny to me to think that on BF so many threads come up on a regular basis in regards to what people would carry as a self defense folder, flipper or fixed blade while going about their daily life in the supermarket or what works best in jogging shorts, and nobody jumps on them for having a fantasy about self defense. I guess it's ok to prepare yourself for the amazingly small possibility of being jumped in walgreens, but the thought that someone in a combat zone may need to pull a knife in a last resort situation is utterly ridiculous? I just don't get it... but then again, i have carried a fixed blade of some sort for the last 17 years i've been in the military so perhaps i may have a fantasy complex myself... along with the thousands of soldiers worldwide who do chose to carry a fixed blade as well.
regards
Royce
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Royce,
His scenario is fantastical for multiple reasons. For one thing, it's obviously a perfect situation that he has dreamed up wherein:
- The attack by "insurgent" was slow enough that he saw it coming...
- Yet quick enough that he was able to grab for something on his belt
- The something (in his fantastical scenario, a fixed blade) being deployed quickly enough for him to be able to use it effectively and
- The fixed blade being a better weapon than a sidearm (which is something that is MUCH more commonly carried by a combat unit soldier) would be.
So, you tell me. You've had multiple combat veterans in this thread talking about the modern battlefield, and how knives have been surpassed by technology and today's weaponry/training, and how they carried multi-tools instead. So, all this time, were these guys just walking around, ready to get taken out by an insurgent that jumped outta nowhere? I see from your posts here that you, being a big knife guy, wanted to be ready for a knife-fight, and that's great. But did it ever happen? 17 years? Ever have to knife any insurgents? I realize that question is incredibly poor taste to ask a veteran, but it's underscoring my point. I apologize if you find it offensive. It's always great to be "ready", but when what you're ready for is an absolute statistical anomaly, then for most people, the real world takes over, and they leave the sharpened crowbar at home, and bring a multi-tool stashed on their person.
Interestingly, my father fought in Vietnam. He ended up serving for nearly 30 years, and he got out after we were well on our way in the Desert Storm fiasco. He never once had to stab anyone, and he tells me he carried his issued bayonet in his ruck and that it never served him as a weapon. Didn't really serve any of his guys as one either. Being in the Defense industry, I have many friends who are both ex-military as well as currently serving. Out of everyone I know, only one of them says he carried a fixed blade, through multiple Sandbox locations and not once did he ever need his fixed blade as a weapon, though he and his unit were actually clearing buildings. Didn't end up ever needing to use his hawk as a weapon either, but that's for another thread. My friend didn't even know anyone who had ever actually used a bladed weapon on someone jumping out them from an allegedly cleared space. Now, he knew plenty of guys who used their pistols to respond to those threats. In addition, in this very thread, you've got plenty of active duty folks who point blank state that they didn't carry a fixed blade. I guess we should be glad that no insurgents jumped out of nowhere to fight them hand to hand, eh? :thumbup:
Don't misunderstand me. If this guy wants to carry a fixed blade, and a back up fixed blade, by all means. What I call into question is how he keeps talking about himself being in these fantasy "fighting/stabbing insurgent" situations...which would be odd for a civilian (he served, he states). So, we have a civilian, and not an active duty combat unit soldier talking about how he'd use a knife to defend himself, when as an actual soldier, he would have been issued better weapons (and trained in their use, NOT knife fighting) in which to do so. Soldiers who actually saw combat are telling him that in today's world, that's just not really something that is a major threat, and in the end, why wouldn't you use a pistol? Instead, we get to hear him talk about "first it must be found (in highly stressful rush during deadly attack,which takes place usually within fragments of seconds) , opening folder after and only now (too late) to engage it into counter weapon,,,,with not even sufficient length of blade to reach vital parts of insurgent,along chances of breaking (snapping) folder in half". All this from a guy who was never in a combat unit? I believe that the military has a term for folks who were noncombat personnel who talk a lot about how they'd do this or that in combat, but darned if I can remember what that term is.
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Well, I have taken the time to read all eight pages of this and have enjoyed it immensely. It has been interesting to see the differences in the responses between those who served before my time and those who recently were in uniform. Not only have I enjoyed it, I have learned a few things along the way.
This thread got me to thinking about the upgrades and changes to uniforms and OCIE gear during my time. For example, at first we used Cotton "H" style LBE, then nylon. By the time I got out, that was all a thing of the past. My aidbag changed a lot too. At first it was a little M3 bag about the size of a six pack of beer. By the end I had a vest and backpack just for my medical gear. I liked the concept but the vest was hot. Weapons changed too, M16A1, A2 and then the M4 came on the scene. The Browning designed Colt 45 ACP gave way to the 9mm (miss my 1911).
Knives changed for the better, the M7 was replaced by the M9 in the eighties. To me, the M9 is big and heavy but it is much more practical and user friendly than the M7. Just my opinion.
The one thing that I noticed that was constant was this. Combat experienced troops always seemed to find ways to carry less gear. Most of the guys I spotted with huge knives were support or what we called REMFs. Don't know what the current term is. I was considered a REMF myself but I had enough junk to carry without adding a big knife to the mix.
The important thing is we have smarter soldiers, that are better trained and better equipped than ever before. And, they have a great selection of knifes to choose from with steels that we did not even dream about.
I remember having an NCO that would say, "It's a fine time to be a soldier." I have to agree but, I must add it's also a fine time to be a knife enthusiast. Just look at what we have to choose from.
This thread got me to thinking about the upgrades and changes to uniforms and OCIE gear during my time. For example, at first we used Cotton "H" style LBE, then nylon. By the time I got out, that was all a thing of the past. My aidbag changed a lot too. At first it was a little M3 bag about the size of a six pack of beer. By the end I had a vest and backpack just for my medical gear. I liked the concept but the vest was hot. Weapons changed too, M16A1, A2 and then the M4 came on the scene. The Browning designed Colt 45 ACP gave way to the 9mm (miss my 1911).
Knives changed for the better, the M7 was replaced by the M9 in the eighties. To me, the M9 is big and heavy but it is much more practical and user friendly than the M7. Just my opinion.
The one thing that I noticed that was constant was this. Combat experienced troops always seemed to find ways to carry less gear. Most of the guys I spotted with huge knives were support or what we called REMFs. Don't know what the current term is. I was considered a REMF myself but I had enough junk to carry without adding a big knife to the mix.
The important thing is we have smarter soldiers, that are better trained and better equipped than ever before. And, they have a great selection of knifes to choose from with steels that we did not even dream about.
I remember having an NCO that would say, "It's a fine time to be a soldier." I have to agree but, I must add it's also a fine time to be a knife enthusiast. Just look at what we have to choose from.
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Sounds like a few condo commandos and REMFs have spoke their wisdom ...It might be better to end this before the real combat vets tell it like it is...
2 Panther
2 Panther
I believe it is a model 14 spear point with saw and black micarta handle with finger grooves. Unfortunately I don't have a picture.
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I would never bring anything expensive on a trip to the desert. Nice knives tend to get lost, or stolen. A couple of traditional K-bars, a large and small Leatherman, and a large, and small SAK would be my choices. They would also be good for barter, and gifts.
My country practices conscription and I can say the same thing about my issued bayonet. Sure, we were trained to use it in a pinch, but reality is that in all of our field exercises, the bayonet gets used for everything that is not combat-oriented. I even remembered using the bayonet as a makeshift stand for my tripflares because clumsy me managed to lose the mounting kit.
Seriously, who uses a knife in combat situations today? If I see someone charging at me from 10 meters away, I'm going to put no less than 10 holes in him from my rifle, excessive force be damned.
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yep... me too. it's getting to be a debate rather than a discussion and i don't need to argue about things. I will just say since you bought it up that no, you didn't offend me... i love to hear people's opinion and I agree with you 100% that the likelyhood of using a fixed blade for self defense is very very low, and that's not why i continue to carry one by the way, i use it for everything else you could imagine. i just like to give the other side of the coin when people tell someone they are wrong in the absolute sense... is the OP wrong? who knows? ...is he talking about a highly unlikely event? definitely, but he does have a right to discuss his position.
p.s. Airborne1... before i go, could you please fill me in on what a real soldier thinks? i know the rest of us fake soldiers and wannabe's who commented on this thread in the last 8 pages have been waiting for someone just like you to straighten us out and tell us what a real man would do.
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