Rinadi Axes, unexpectedly great.

It's worth noting that their 4lb racing axe has considerably more cheek to it. When speed is prioritized they bulk up both the weight and cheek. However, the norm for Italian axes is not over 3.3lb (1500g) with most being 1.1lb (500g) through 2.86lb (1300g). Light.
 
Its worth noting that the Rinaldi "racing axe" is not used by any timbersport competitors in American, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand. Or in the Basque competition. So like this axe is not really an "American Boys axe" the "Racing axe" is not really a racing axe.
 
These competitors in Italy are using what could be Italian racing axes:

[video=youtube;QicVc6xbzX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QicVc6xbzX4[/video]
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Yeah, that's not what I said.

Input energy and the output product are not linear in their relationship. Depending on your balance of priorities your optimum specifications for the tool involved will vary, sometimes by a significant degree. In this case, a possible analogy would be one of sprinting vs. long distance running. Frequency, intensity, time, and setting have a big impact on the optimum specifications for hand tools.
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Sorry, is it not you who speculated this?

"Italians generally don't like to work any harder than they have to "

I can speculate that their axes are like this because mediterranean climate creates a specific environment in which humans have to work. When the heat is taking the toll maybe you don't go for 3' diameter tree to cut down, but you go for "close to your needs" size of tree. When your houses are 99% masonry, you don't need huge quantities of wood. You need a tool capable to fell a decent size tree and do fine tuning for rafters, windows, doors, furniture etc. You will develop an ax good for these parameters. It has nothing to do with their work ethic, speeding or marathoning.
 
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Steve Tall said:
These competitors in Italy are using what could be Italian racing axes:

[video=youtube;QicVc6xbzX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QicVc6xbzX4[/video]
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Sooooo many questions. Hard to see. Is that two notches pre cut around the log? I am on my phonne again. It looked like he cut close only primarily using just the toe? The guy closest to the camera. Looked like only one far strike.I would be interested in seeing more of these. Obviously what we know as a timbersport axe would blow these axes away, this is interesting non the less.
EDIT and as they are obviously chopping in a hurry in a competition and using what is close enough I stand corrected on the label "Racing axe"
 
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Derzelas said:
Sorry, is it not you who speculated this?

"Italians generally don't like to work any harder than they have to "

I can speculate that their axes are like this because mediterranean climate creates a specific environment in which humans have to work. When the heat is taking the toll maybe you don't go for 3' diameter tree to cut down, but you go for "close to your needs" size of tree. When your houses are 99% masonry, you don't need huge quantities of wood. You need a tool capable to fell a decent size tree and do fine tuning for rafters, windows, doors, furniture etc. You will develop an ax good for these parameters. It has nothing to do with their work ethic, speeding or marathoning.
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That opinion was one actually originally posited by Peter Vido of Axe Connected, in conversation with me.
 
I don't know who's Peter Vido, but since he said that ... It's a bible verse right? Telling the truth and nothing but the truth
Generalization is the mother of all stupidities. But this is just me and my way of thinking.
 
Derzelas said:
I don't know who's Peter Vido, but since he said that ... It's a bible verse right? Telling the truth and nothing but the truth
Generalization is the mother of all stupidities. But this is just me and my way of thinking.
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Nope. Not at all. I specifically said that it was what had been told to me by people who have visited or lived there. I've had Italians also anecdotally confirm this themselves. It's a cultural difference, not laziness. Much like how the El Salvadorans I deal with at Imacasa/Condor have a totally different concept of timeliness than we do. It's just a different attitude or mindset.
 
Woodcraft said:
If you watch the guy on the left it looks like he is literally held up by the axes inability to clear the chip.
Every claim should be comparative right? Otherwise we would all think the corvair was the epitome of automobile design. https://youtu.be/wajzes0HOBs
https://youtu.be/eIuCJBPx8vg
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The guy on the left lost by a comfortable margin. The guy on the right is clearing respectable slabs with average three hits per.

This thread needs some more DBH observations. I'd like to hear about how this thing works out for pack weight and how it works choked up for more detail oriented activity. How does it hit for its weight to length? To me this is a candidate for backpacking, canoeing, trail maintenance maybe, not heavy limbing or felling.

Who uses any country/tradition's Boy's axe for serious chopping and why is the thread being derailed by details that have little to do with the specific axe being reviewed?
 
HeavyHanded said:
The guy on the left lost by a comfortable margin. The guy on the right is clearing respectable slabs with average three hits per.



Who uses any country/tradition's Boy's axe for serious chopping.
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No he isnt bit thanks for your opinion. ( Comparatively if he was using say a 4# Rockaway with a high centerline or one of comparitive weight )

You should research what the American boys/pulp axe was traditionally used for.
(That is what they chose to call this axe right? So they chose the standard they wanted to be held to)
 
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Woodcraft said:
No he isnt bit thanks for your opinion.

You should research what the American boys/pulp axe was traditionally used for.
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You're right, most of his chips cleared with two hits and he ran out of room at the bottom - took a few more than it should have to finish it off.

Again, I'm more interested in some of the other differences. Is the Rinaldi lighter than a Council or similar? In my limited experience a lot of regional patterns are more based on availability of raw materials and how to get the most from them while getting the job done. If the Rinaldi sacrifices energy but can be produced at a higher number per amount of raw materials would explain a lot. Especially if its a better choice for up close work.

Gotta remember a lot of "American" anything usually reflects an abundance of raw materials as much as anything else. And in any event I don't recall the OP making any comparative statements that would have led to such a festival of leg raising.
 
This particular axe has a nominal head weight of 1.54lb (700g) on a 62cm handle, so despite its large profile and deep bit it only weighs as much as a typical American hatchet head does. They produce it in up to a 1500g head weight (3.3lb).
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
This particular axe has a nominal head weight of 1.54lb (700g) on a 62cm handle, so despite its large profile and deep bit it only weighs as much as a typical American hatchet head does. They produce it in up to a 1500g head weight (3.3lb).
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I'd expect it to outperform most hawks but not equal an American Boy's axe for chopping, while weight will be between the two.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Who uses any country/tradition's Boy's axe for serious chopping and why is the thread being derailed by details that have little to do with the specific axe being reviewed?
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I used to work for the local Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR). We managed several forests that support the local timber industry. I had to keep roads and trails open. I could carry whatever axes I wanted in my truck. My kit typically included a 20" Stihl, a pulaski and boys axe. The boys axe was my go to tool for clearing a typical fall across the road. It was fastest. To use the chainsaw I was required to put on my chainsaw chaps, face shield and hearing protection. In the time it took me to gear up for the chainsaw I could clear the road with the boys axe. Just jump out and start swinging. No fueling, no oiling, no PPE.
 
Square_peg said:
I used to work for the local Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR). We managed several forests that support the local timber industry. I had to keep roads and trails open. I could carry whatever axes I wanted in my truck. My kit typically included a 20" Stihl, a pulaski and boys axe. The boys axe was my go to tool for clearing a typical fall across the road. It was fastest. To use the chainsaw I was required to put on my chainsaw chaps, face shield and hearing protection. In the time it took me to gear up for the chainsaw I could clear the road with the boys axe. Just jump out and start swinging. No fueling, no oiling, no PPE.
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I get a lot of use from mine too. I did not reach for it when limbing a 30 foot cotton tree that fell over in my back yard, but when clearing smaller stuff it's great. Being the same scaled down pattern as my full size axes it does a good job of chopping and splitting. I find mine too heavy to justify the weight for backpacking though. In my use that makes it a niche tool.

I think that's where the conversation gets interesting in terms of alternative patterns and weight to length performance with choked up detail work thrown in as well.
 
HeavyHanded said:
In my limited experience a lot of regional patterns are more based on availability of raw materials and how to get the most from them while getting the job done. If the Rinaldi sacrifices energy but can be produced at a higher number per amount of raw materials would explain a lot. Especially if its a better choice for up close work.

Gotta remember a lot of "American" anything usually reflects an abundance of raw materials as much as anything else.
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This is a very interesting point and I think you are right. From what I have read, it appears that after the Middle Ages iron and especially steel, were relatively scarce (compared to the size of the population) in most of Europe, it had to be traded at a relatively high cost from farther away. It was the industrial revolution which made them cheap enough to be readily available to the masses.

HeavyHanded said:
And in any event I don't recall the OP making any comparative statements that would have led to such a festival of leg raising.
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:D

Thank you Sir for summing up in such a concise and funny way the twists and turns of this thread. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
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