Rinadi Axes, unexpectedly great.

Woodcraft said:
This axe is the "American boys axe" isnt it? That is the impression I am under. So it draws the comparison itself. That said, at $60 it needs to be directly compared to the Council tool $30 actual American boys axe. Then if It can do anything better it could be compared to a vintage boys axe with a high centerline. I am willing to purchase and send a Council Boys axe to DBH if he wants to do a video comparison, but I want it back after ;)
I keep hearing about this learning curve to use a flat cheeked polless axe. Yet there is no video of anyone who has mastered it. And I have looked. Not one. Including the peolle who sell them. All awkward. I have come to the conclusion that is because it is awkward to use. In a way that you will never be able to walk up to a tree and take a big full from the hips swing like you can with an American felling axe. And that, is because it is inferior. And unbalanced. And that will rear its head again and again in use.
As far as splitting and limbing, I know better on the former and doubt in anyway that is meaningful or at all on the latter.
Click to expand...

I have a Council Tool FSS boys Axe on a velvicut handle. I'll make a quick comparison video for yea.
 
Well, glad to see you weren't chased off by the snarky comments :). I thought you packed things and left.

Will watch soon!
 
That is a very light head if I understand things. I would think the bushcraft guys would love that axe. There is plenty of room in my tool shed for different designs and for that one to still be around after thousands of years of axe evolution it would have to fit in its environment. Looks like it does some things quite well for its size.

Just guessing on the steel being 5160? At 58rc it should do pretty well I would think.
 
DeadboxHero,

Thanks for taking the time to record and review all these different axes. You certainly show that any decent axe can be made to do a lot of work. I think at the end of the day that is why most of us are here, we love these tools. I've been thinking about picking up one of these axes for a while, not because I believe they will be better than my cherished vintage American Axes, but just to try something different. Keep the videos coming as well as your thoughts on the axe, it's valuable to anyone considering picking one up. Hopefully we can get this thread back on track.
 
DeadboxHero said:
This axe is beast.

[youtube]RPCOUDAmjxw[/youtube]
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Darn it! Now after all the work I've done thinning out my hatchets to maximize them for backpacking, you make me want to get one of those!

Edit to add:
Benjamin, how much meat is taken off of these with the "special grade" or is mostly edge work?
 
HeavyHanded said:
Darn it! Now after all the work I've done thinning out my hatchets to maximize them for backpacking, you make me want to get one of those!

Edit to add:
Benjamin, how much meat is taken off of these with the "special grade" or is mostly edge work?
Click to expand...

Only edge work. They actually come with a pretty good factory geometry to them. They're unusual in terms of the factory supplied condition in that they come fully apexed but with a significant "flaky" burr left on the edge. You could technically just knock off the burr with a couple of light file strokes and put it right to use, but they do best when thinned out just a little more and polished up.
 
Woodcraft said:
You seem to be calm and accomidating. Thank you in advance for the comparison video.
Click to expand...

[youtube]u99Kg5gm5rs[/youtube]

Found a dead cottonwood log in a riparian forest area.

There is no winner, both are just different. This is not a test, just a comparison.

I enjoy them both (which is why I own them :D)

I have to swing them differently, If I swung them both the same we would have a winner based on that.

I try to swing the Council as fast as the Rinaldi with a non-sliding hand but it just doesn't work, the sliding technique on the Rinaldi doesn't work for me though either.

I glance with both of them, it happens to the best of us. I just edited out the council glancing to cut the video down.

I'll go into detail later.

-Shawn
 
Moonw said:
Well, glad to see you weren't chased off by the snarky comments :). I thought you packed things and left.

Will watch soon!
Click to expand...

hahaha nope :D

garry3 said:
That is a very light head if I understand things. I would think the bushcraft guys would love that axe. There is plenty of room in my tool shed for different designs and for that one to still be around after thousands of years of axe evolution it would have to fit in its environment. Looks like it does some things quite well for its size.

Just guessing on the steel being 5160? At 58rc it should do pretty well I would think.
Click to expand...

It a "Silicon Manganese steel" which can be a vast array of steels since silicon and manganese are used in small amounts for the actually manfacture of mass produced steel from the mill.

its propriety so we don't know what the exact alloy is the Rinaldi uses.

I mistakenly thought it was a "shock resistance steel" but that would be a Silicon Molybdenum steel (which also has manganese.)

In the end, What's important is that the steel and heat treat perform great, I'll get into the details later.

Hacked said:
DeadboxHero,

Thanks for taking the time to record and review all these different axes. You certainly show that any decent axe can be made to do a lot of work. I think at the end of the day that is why most of us are here, we love these tools. I've been thinking about picking up one of these axes for a while, not because I believe they will be better than my cherished vintage American Axes, but just to try something different. Keep the videos coming as well as your thoughts on the axe, it's valuable to anyone considering picking one up. Hopefully we can get this thread back on track.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, I really appreciate the encouragement. I'll be honest, its much easier just to keep all the fun to myself sometimes :D but I like to share with you guys because I like to read and learn also.

HeavyHanded said:
Darn it! Now after all the work I've done thinning out my hatchets to maximize them for backpacking, you make me want to get one of those!

Edit to add:
Benjamin, how much meat is taken off of these with the "special grade" or is mostly edge work?
Click to expand...

hahaha gotcha! :D but really, it is a great axe for backpacking, I'm actually looking at which one I want next, especially since the price is good for what ya get.

I bought the special grade, I enjoy not having to sharpen an axe as soon as I get and just going straight to a strop and then out to the woods.

its a quarter inch wide bevel he puts on there. I like it. I've been maintaining the edge with an Arctic Fox stone too. its nice to have a bevel to follow.
I'll share on sharpening soon too.
 
DeadboxHero said:
[youtube]u99Kg5gm5rs[/youtube]

Found a dead cottonwood log in a riparian forest area.

There is no winner, both are just different. This is not a test, just a comparison.

I enjoy them both (which is why I own them :D)

I have to swing them differently, If I swung them both the same we would have a winner based on that.

I try to swing the Council as fast as the Rinaldi with a non-sliding hand but it just doesn't work, the sliding technique on the Rinaldi doesn't work for me though either.

I glance with both of them, it happens to the best of us. I just edited out the council glancing to cut the video down.

I'll go into detail later.

-Shawn
Click to expand...

I will wait for you to post the details and opinions from the comparison before I give my opinion. Thanks.
 
Woodcraft said:
I will wait for you to post the details and opinions from the comparison before I give my opinion. Thanks.
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Yep, Just my opinion, nothing scientific :)

The Rinadi swings very fast and still produce deep cuts and pops chips, feels very primal. I like that I can just swing away and not get tired.

The Council is more methodical, each blow has better effect but cannot be swung as rapid because it would feel clumsy and would tire me quickly.

I think there are so many variables to account for it makes my head explode just attempting to catalog them :D

some examples being,

-user skill
-experience level
-user physiology and fitness
-swinging techniques and tactics
-Purpose and task
-steel type
-edge, cheek and bit geometry
-heat treat- underlying microstructure and hardness
-sharpening skill
-edge finish
-Handle design
-handle wood
-handle length
-handle thickness
-wood type
-wood age
-moisture content
-etc.

I am able to find what works great for me but based on these variables it would be daunting to find universal truths for all.

Just having a different body type, physical age and fitness would change everything, which would lead me to prefer different swinging techniques and tactics which would then have me focus on tools that would enhance my strengths

For instance, if I was a smaller, slimmer build I would focus more on endurance type qualities with longer handles, lighter heads. It would take more time but it would synergize my physiological ability.

I continue to explore these attributes over time and continue to be perplexed and fascinated by my on going discoveries that can only be learned by going out and using the tools.



If you ask me which one is my favorite a month from now I would not have a definite answer. I learn something new every time I go out and swing them.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Yep, Just my opinion, nothing scientific :)

The Rinadi swings very fast and still produce deep cuts and pops chips, feels very primal. I like that I can just swing away and not get tired.

The Council is more methodical, each blow has better effect but cannot be swung as rapid because it would feel clumsy and would tire me quickly.

I think there are so many variables to account for it makes my head explode just attempting to catalog them :D

some examples being,

-user skill
-experience level
-user physiology and fitness
-swinging techniques and tactics
-Purpose and task
-steel type
-edge, cheek and bit geometry
-heat treat- underlying microstructure and hardness
-sharpening skill
-edge finish
-Handle design
-handle wood
-handle length
-handle thickness
-wood type
-wood age
-moisture content
-etc.

I am able to find what works great for me but based on these variables it would be daunting to find universal truths for all.

Just having a different body type, physical age and fitness would change everything, which would lead me to prefer different swinging techniques and tactics which would then have me focus on tools that would enhance my strengths

For instance, if I was a smaller, slimmer build I would focus more on endurance type qualities with longer handles, lighter heads. It would take more time but it would synergize my physiological ability.

I continue to explore these attributes over time and continue to be perplexed and fascinated by my on going discoveries that can only be learned by going out and using the tools.



If you ask me which one is my favorite a month from now I would not have a definite answer. I learn something new every time I go out and swing them.
Click to expand...
Sure, sure. But different not better does not register with me. I can step outside and tell you what of any two axes I own is faster at bucking. (On that wood, yada yada)What one I could use the longest and still produce with. What is a better splitter.(The joy of testing is saying what works best for you!) To me it is all in a name. This axe is not what it claims to be. It is not up to the tasks of a boys/pulp axe. Could it be that someone knew calling it a small forest axe would put it up against too much competition? IDK. Clearly you think this axe has some positive attributes. I think it is just another bushcraft little pack axe that is not flexible enough or designed well enough to be useful on its own.
From your videos and my own opinion, experience and whatever else you want to throw in, the actual boys axe is the work axe of the two. The Italian jobby is a backpackers light use axe. And in that arena there are far better choices for that price.
Again, love the videos. Thanks for them. I am just not a slap on the butt agree with you because it feels good kind of guy. I give my opinion.
 
Woodcraft said:
Sure, sure. But different not better does not register with me. I can step outside and tell you what of any two axes I own is faster at bucking. (On that wood, yada yada)What one I could use the longest and still produce with. What is a better splitter.(The joy of testing is saying what works best for you!) To me it is all in a name. This axe is not what it claims to be. It is not up to the tasks of a boys/pulp axe. Could it be that someone knew calling it a small forest axe would put it up against too much competition? IDK. Clearly you think this axe has some positive attributes. I think it is just another bushcraft little pack axe that is not flexible enough or designed well enough to be useful on its own.
From your videos and my own opinion, experience and whatever else you want to throw in, the actual boys axe is the work axe of the two. The Italian jobby is a backpackers light use axe. And in that arena there are far better choices for that price.
Again, love the videos. Thanks for them. I am just not a slap on the butt agree with you because it feels good kind of guy. I give my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't get too caught up in the name, we have to remember that something is lost in translation when we something comes from a different culture and language. Whats funny is Rinaldi is both right and wrong with the name choice :D

They are correct in the name because its what the first axes used in the Americas looked like before we became a country and its about the same size as a boys axe. Yet incorrect because technically speaking, a "boys axe" is something very specific and I agree it doesn't quite fit in that category

I thought it was fun to share the differences though and that for a lightweight it really holds its own, heck I could probably cut logs faster with the Rinaldi but that might not work for everyone.

As far as how the Rinaldi stacks up against other bushcraft axes you would be surprised, especially if you had the unique opportunity to swing the top brands and styles.

I take no offence to different opinions. I try my best to embrace them and agree to disagree. I'm sure alot of us would get along just fine in person and we would be more open to new things if we could compare them together with a little friendly competition ;).

Since that's not a reality though I think it would be nice if we could all enrich the thread by "showing" the differences rather then "telling" us. Especially since there are too many variables and empirical evidence helps us all.

but I understand, Its very time consuming to get out there and swing away let alone using media to record and share.
Besides, Isn't that what I am here for?! hahaha :D
 
DeadboxHero said:
I don't get too caught up in the name, we have to remember that something is lost in translation when we something comes from a different culture and language. Whats funny is Rinaldi is both right and wrong with the name choice :D

They are correct in the name because its what the first axes used in the Americas looked like before we became a country and its about the same size as a boys axe. Yet incorrect because technically speaking, a "boys axe" is something very specific and I agree it doesn't quite fit in that category

I thought it was fun to share the differences though and that for a lightweight it really holds its own, heck I could probably cut logs faster with the Rinaldi but that might not work for everyone.

As far as how the Rinaldi stacks up against other bushcraft axes you would be surprised, especially if you had the unique opportunity to swing the top brands and styles.

I take no offence to different opinions. I try my best to embrace them and agree to disagree. I'm sure alot of us would get along just fine in person and we would be more open to new things if we could compare them together with a little friendly competition ;).

Since that's not a reality though I think it would be nice if we could all enrich the thread by "showing" the differences rather then "telling" us. Especially since there are too many variables and empirical evidence helps us all.

but I understand, Its very time consuming to get out there and swing away let alone using media to record and share.
Besides, Isn't that what I am here for?! hahaha :D
Click to expand...

I think what you have is a sprint vrs jogging situation. The speed that you "can" and actually have to generate to penetrate with the light axe(combined with the sticking) would cause fatigue in the long run faster than utilizing the weight of the axe head and the sliding hands method. I am contemplating picking up something new and reviewing it as the thaw is here and banging into frozen oak is finally coming to an end. But buying an axe and not getting to hang it is such a disappointment:).
 
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DeadboxHero said:
[youtube]u99Kg5gm5rs[/youtube]

Found a dead cottonwood log in a riparian forest area.

There is no winner, both are just different. This is not a test, just a comparison.

I enjoy them both (which is why I own them :D)

I have to swing them differently, If I swung them both the same we would have a winner based on that.

I try to swing the Council as fast as the Rinaldi with a non-sliding hand but it just doesn't work, the sliding technique on the Rinaldi doesn't work for me though either.

I glance with both of them, it happens to the best of us. I just edited out the council glancing to cut the video down.

I'll go into detail later.

-Shawn
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! It's great to hear from someone who has used both side-by-side and can provide real-world feedback. Not many members have used (or at least used and reviewed) the Rinaldis, so it's a great addition to the forum. I guess it's true that there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm sure lots of members will find this useful. Thanks for taking the time to post everything up! It'd be nice if more people did that, myself included.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the Council has an extra 3/4lb of steel in the head compared to the Rinaldi, yes?
 
Woodcraft said:
I think what you have is a sprint vrs jogging situation. The speed that you "can" and actually have to generate to penetrate with the light axe(combined with the sticking) would cause fatigue in the long run faster than utilizing the weight of the axe head and the sliding hands method. I am contemplating picking up something new and reviewing it as the thaw is here and banging into frozen oak is finally coming to an end. But buying an axe and not getting to hang it is such a disappointment:).
Click to expand...

I think that's a pretty good supposition. The extra 4" of handle on the boy's axe would make a huge difference in being able to slide, but - even with a thinner bit you will have to put more energy into the Rinaldi due to lighter head.

To me this may or may not be a good trade off for camping as I'm not chopping for extended periods. I do wind up camping with the family in more accessible areas and have to go further for firewood, or tackle larger downfall. The Rinaldi is about 4 ozs heavier than my hatchet at a skosh over 2lbs, and the Council Boy's is 4 lbs total - too heavy for me to be packing without a real need.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
If I'm not mistaken, the Council has an extra 3/4lb of steel in the head compared to the Rinaldi, yes?
Click to expand...

The Council Tool has a 2.25 lbs head. I believe the Rinaldi has just over a 1.5 lbs head so that would be about right. That would make the Small Forest Axe or Hults Bruk Akka a more comparable axe to the Rinaldi at lest in terms of weight.
 
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