Ripped off

deluxewarplaya said:
If the knife meets certain criteria that I am looking for in a knife, I couldn't care less what the marketing department spins up about what the knife is made to do. For all I know, they could tell me that the knife is designed to make my car go faster, but then when I inspect it, it doesn't have any of those properties. My point is, the knife should fit the job and a person should be able to find certain qualities or properties about a knife (or any product for that matter) that meet certain criterion for the intended use.
Click to expand...

I go along with that. If you had x-ray vision, you could see the weak tang. Otherwise, the knife looks a lot like other Muela knives built for heavy work. No reason to think batoning was abuse.

In fact, we've seen knives made for that level of use that still failed: a defect in the design sometimes, perhaps an unexpected knot in the wood, or poor technique.

It's also a problem with a lot of knife manufacturers that they may have made great knives in-house in the past, but the knives they contract out now don't measure up. Many more buyers now are no longer outdoorsmen, and don't stress the new (cheaper) knives, so the rate of complaints won't go up.

You got out and really used a knife that looked good but wasn't ready for prime time.
 
PayetteRucker said:
One more example of a shoddy knife giving battoning a bad name amongst the community that has never had to split wood on a regular basis... Man, it amazes me how one can judge a practical technique because knives that are not designed to be used in that way get broken. It's called a 6 dollar tramontina...
Click to expand...

If you split wood so much, wouldn't it make sense to invest in a splitting axe or a splitting maul? Maybe even a splitting wedge?
 
Who says he splits wood so much, or want to carry any extra weight he can avoid? We have plenty of threads that show knives used successfully in batoning.
 
Regardless of what he was doing; using cast mystery steel to attach to the much harder steel tang? That's a recipe for eventual failure. I'd imagine one could break the extension in light chopping too. I wouldn't consider light chopping to be abuse in a knife that size. This sucks all around considering $70USD gets into Ontario (and other equally bomb-proof knives) TAK range.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Who says he splits wood so much, or want to carry any extra weight he can avoid? We have plenty of threads that show knives used successfully in batoning.
Click to expand...

good point, but i just believe its presumptuous to assume that any given fixed blade will hold up to, let alone be intended for that function... we all can agree not all knives were created equal and many fine knives function perfectly well at their given task of cutting things doesnt mean they will fair well batoning...
i bet i could baton some sticks with my sodbuster doesnt mean it was intended to do that or that it would fair well:) not to mention the risk of injury to me!
I agree the tang looks suspect...
gene
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Who says he splits wood so much, or want to carry any extra weight he can avoid? We have plenty of threads that show knives used successfully in batoning.
Click to expand...

My post was directed towards Payette Rucker, not the OP. Payette Rucker clearly says he splits wood "on a regular basis". So, I stand by my question. If it's something you do on a regular basis, why wouldn't you invest in a tool designed for splitting wood? It's easier, quicker, and more effective. That's why the splitting maul was invented.

As for carrying extra weight... ok. That makes sense, to a point. But, if you're out backpacking (Which is when most people worry about "carrying weight") how often do you have wood that needs splitting? That's an honest question.
 
I don't know. Payette Rucker is in our Pacific Northwest. deluxewarplaya is in Australia. I don't know circumstances. Maybe it's work around his home, maybe out on a hike. Environment is as big a factor as anything.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I don't know. Payette Rucker is in our Pacific Northwest. deluxewarplaya is in Australia. I don't know circumstances. Maybe it's work around his home, maybe out on a hike. Environment is as big a factor as anything.
Click to expand...

That's true. And, maybe he does have a completely valid reason for using a belt knife to split wood. Who knows?
 
Having read the complete thread, and regardless of anything else, there's a well known engineering principle shown here that this tang design violates, and clearly makes the knife unsuitable for batoning.

square corners in metal start fractures, not so much from blows, but from vibration.

Ever wonder why all the windows on your last airline flight had rounded corners?

It's because in the early days the square conored windows quickly led to fractures of the skin of the Aircraft (FAR worse with jets than with Recips, but happened with both)

Those square corned slots on the tang are a guarantee of fracture under vibration, and nothing sets up vibration like batoning. most all KaBars are a square cut at the blade tang juncture and when they fail, thats usually the spot.

Admittedly I'm not a fan of batoning except in extreme emergency, growing up in hardwood forests helped develope that attitude. Knives are for cutting, axes, machete's. hatchets, and other specially designed tools are for choping, wedges and mauls are for splitting.

Yep. we all open paint cans with screwdrivers and butter knives, but the tang design on this particular knife ... Sucks rocks.

As always, JMHO, YMMV and that's okay too.

PS Choping would have seen the same failure mode, it would have just lasted longer before failing.

Out of warranty or not, I'd write the mfr a letter, addressed to the president and at least let them know they are producing a product guaranteeing them dissatisfied customers.

Letters to Company presidents are much more productive than e-mails to "Cusromer (NO) Service."

Good Luck!

Regards,
:) ...
 
Last edited:
I won't comment on the Muela knife other than to say I've never seen a composite handle like that and definitely not one advertised as full tang. A knife designed with cost cutting in mind. . . That was just shoddy manufacturing imo. You probably need to loosen your grip, it failed from being squoze to hard . . . :rolleyes:

That said, if I were to carry a knife with the idea of batoning in mind, I'd want a true full tang knife with no stress risers and none of that hide-what's-really-in-the- tang, rubbery material for a handle. A few years back there was a thread with pics of a knife that broke right at the blade/tang interface that was a built in stress riser. Cold Steel SRK or Recon Scout IIRC. Point is with a Kraton handle or anything that hides the tang, you really never know what you've got without destructive testing.

Now we know.

The TOPS Air Wolfe has a real full tang and minimal stress risers. I have one and it's a good knife; nothing special really, just 1095 steel and Black G-10. Only Tops knife I own.

$.02
 
ras said:
I won't comment on the Muela knife other than to say I've never seen a composite handle like that and definitely not one advertised as full tang. A knife designed with cost cutting in mind. . . That was just shoddy manufacturing imo. You probably need to loosen your grip, it failed from being squoze to hard . . . :rolleyes:

That said, if I were to carry a knife with the idea of batoning in mind, I'd want a true full tang knife with no stress risers and none of that hide-what's-really-in-the- tang, rubbery material for a handle. A few years back there was a thread with pics of a knife that broke right at the blade/tang interface that was a built in stress riser. Cold Steel SRK or Recon Scout IIRC. Point is with a Kraton handle or anything that hides the tang, you really never know what you've got without destructive testing.

Now we know.

The TOPS Air Wolfe has a real full tang and minimal stress risers. I have one and it's a good knife; nothing special really, just 1095 steel and Black G-10. Only Tops knife I own.

$.02
Click to expand...

I've got a Busse Basic 11. It's got a rubbery handle. I'd baton with it.
 
EMT_Lee said:
I've got a Busse Basic 11. It's got a rubbery handle. I'd baton with it.
Click to expand...
There are are always exceptions. But does the Busse Basic really have a "hide-what's-really-in-the- tang, rubbery material? Not really because you know what's under the Resiprene C and it probably looks a lot like:
handle.jpg

. . .note the radiused curves leading to the tang from the blade (see photo). Not only do these eliminate the possibility of stress fractures and microscopic fissures that can cause catastrophic failure in the field . . . Scrapyard
Click to expand...

The OP effectively conducted destructive testing to determine the handle was not up to the task. Busse makes a point of eliminating stress risers and as I recall that was the issue with the other knife I mentioned. The pics showed it fractured right at a 90 deg transition point between blade and tang.
 
EMT_Lee said:
That's true. And, maybe he does have a completely valid reason for using a belt knife to split wood. Who knows?
Click to expand...

If you're asking me specifically, then the answer is that my friend I was with was using the hatchet, while I was using the knife. We only carried 1 hatchet and a number of knives for various tasks.
 
I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would defend such actions by this company. Even Frost, the king of cheap knives, doesn't make such crap as this!
 
This reminds me of the story I heard about the American woodchoppers that came down-under , though they would whip the locals pants , but they never heard of australian hard wood , so they just broke tools and looked bad.

I understand you thought you had a tool capable , but even so , why would you baton with a stainless euopean knife ? The whole baton caper is an American thing , Ive never felt the need to baton while camping in Australia.

I'd take the knife back and try and get your money returned.
Do some research on suitable tools and technique.
 
Well...now you can hammer off the rest of that crap metal and put a nice stag on it to make yourself a nice custom.

You need to get a esee or becker that has a REAL full tang for battoning.
 
bigbadboom said:
This reminds me of the story I heard about the American woodchoppers that came down-under , though they would whip the locals pants , but they never heard of australian hard wood , so they just broke tools and looked bad.

I understand you thought you had a tool capable , but even so , why would you baton with a stainless euopean knife ? The whole baton caper is an American thing , Ive never felt the need to baton while camping in Australia.

I'd take the knife back and try and get your money returned.
Do some research on suitable tools and technique.
Click to expand...

If you take your car and ram it into a solid block wall do you think that the dealership would take it back and give your money back to you????
 
richard thurman said:
If you take your car and ram it into a solid block wall do you think that the dealership would take it back and give your money back to you????
Click to expand...

The dealership will tell you to get bent, but your insurance company might pay your car off :D Mmm, knife insurance, what a novel idea lol.
 
yeah but the car didnt perform as advertised by the sales man. he said it was full tang was suitable for the buyers purpose ,, if you buy a tank thats meant to ram thru solid brick walls , but when ya do you find out its a cardboard pantomime tank , well the salesman led you down the proverbial garden path . he sold a knife clearly not designed for what the customer was looking for . Yeah knives are for cutting , but SOME knives are overbuilt for just that purpose.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top