Roger Linger stole my payment for WSK

Scott,
I don't think that it's "mudslinging" if it's true.
If he is so overwhelmed with his work load, then he should not have taken the order.
If I contacted you tomorrow and said that I needed 50 cutom made knives for my platoon, I'm betting that you would be able to give me a reasonably accurate timeframe for their delivery--it might be two years or it might be ten years.
If it was going to take three years, then you would be wrong if you quoted me delivery in two years.

Maybe some makers are overestimating their speed?
But being off the mark by six months is not acceptable IMHO.

Allen.
 
allenC said:
Scott,
I don't think that it's "mudslinging" if it's true.
If he is so overwhelmed with his work load, then he should not have taken the order.
If I contacted you tomorrow and said that I needed 50 cutom made knives for my platoon, I'm betting that you would be able to give me a reasonably accurate timeframe for their delivery--it might be two years or it might be ten years.
If it was going to take three years, then you would be wrong if you quoted me delivery in two years.

Maybe some makers are overestimating their speed?
But being off the mark by six months is not acceptable IMHO.

Allen.
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I agree Allen, but that's the point, we don't know the whole story. Until Roger comes forward this will definately taint his rep. Very sad but true. As far as taking on a 50 piece custom order from one customer, right now being part time, I won't take it. I think you're right about over estimating their speed. I give a wide enough gap that I feel comfortable with.
Scott
 
Most of the makers I've dealt with are stand up, top notch people. They're not Wallstreet businessmen but instead are usually very down-to-earth type good ol' boys. Most of them are the nicest people you'll ever want to meet.

With that said, we've seen a couple instances of knifemaker behavior at Bladeforums here that makes you realize that well liked knifemakers are not immune from getting people's money and never sending the product. It's rare, but it does happen and, rest assured, it will happen again in the future.
Is this one of those times? Without the maker's side of the story, I wouldn't judge too harshley just yet.

However, A maker who has someone's money owes that customer extreme priority consideration to get him his knife. Nine months has passed from the time of quoted delivery in February to the end of October, according to this one side of the story. Even with a sheath error, that seems excessive to me. But, I don't know the other side of the story which is critical before accurately judgeing.

As Steve and others have said, simple communication is essential in a deal like this or you'll end up with threads like these, right or wrong, where a customer is accusing a guy of stealing.


First and foremost, a very basic rule of thumb to follow for anyone who orders custom knives as a hooby is that unless the knife which you've ordered is some unusual item that you're asking the maker to build, NEVER send any maker money until the knife is made with you're ordered specs AND is ready for immediate shipping.
 
The biggest thing that I don't understand is why Roger hasn't taken the initiative to call Yshimo and talk to him. It shouldn't be up to Yshimo to have to call Roger and spend the money required to do so. Roger owes Yshimo this courtesy. All of this could be put to rest with one phone call.
 
Dan Gray said:
no it's not my practice, and I have over 25 years working with customers
it can make a big differance..

Allen since we're into what if's here why not ? you tell me..
Guys read my first post please friend or not I've said it many times we need to communication? I guess it's not sinking in,, that I said this we're just going around in circles now.. :rolleyes: .
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It's too hard, to read your posts because of the bad punctuation and,, lack of sentence structure... If English isn't, your first language I,, apologize but your posts are very hard to read I don't mean any.. dis-respect :) theres also a program that will allow you; to spellcheck your posts before posting called: ispell :thumbup: I think it,, was Ren that pointed that out I spell so bad that I have to use it myself? Sumtimes!!! :D :D

OilMan (not my real name) :D

edit: added some smileys for ya
 
OilMan said:
It's too hard, to read your posts because of the bad punctuation and,, lack of sentence structure... If English isn't, your first language I,, apologize but your posts are very hard to read I don't mean any.. dis-respect theres also a program that will allow you; to spellcheck your posts before posting called: ispell I think it,, was Ren that pointed that out I spell so bad that I have to use it myself? Sumtimes!!!

OilMan (not my real name)
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LOL!! I'm sorry Dan I too am having a very difficult time reading through your posts. You're writing looks like poems or something.

Roger has responded in this thread
 
First thanks to Brian Goode, Ron Medise, and Dan Gray this thread has been brought to my attention and I appreciate the extra effort all went to to do that. Two, Ron and Dan went as far as phoning me, Ron last evening and Dan this day.

This thing is so long and I am such a slow reader I have not yet read even half it yet, but will consume all of it. My first impression when I realized the size of this darn thread is it might do me well to stay away more often. I've never had this much attention, not even when my Lady wants money.

All I have read thus far I find very little to disagree with. The thief part is wrong of course but somewhat understandable. For several months now I have had slow downs, daily it seems, from all different directions including self caused slow downs. However I will say this in case there is a thought of it: I do not or have ever used drugs and drinking was not involved either. Just stuff that happened, some small and some larger than small. I did not fall down or get knocked down. Just things; some I can speak openly about and some I prefer not to. No one involved including myself will be beat or compromised. All will be fine in the end. A bit late but fine.

and yes, in case anyone is waiting for it from me, I am sorry but will not dwell on it.

As for the thread starter, my customer, I can only say that his end of our dealings has been totally straight up and without any complaint from me - at any time.

Edit: I do wish I had not glanced at the two previous posts before mine. I can take being called a theif when there is great enough disapointment in me to cause that thought. Making fun of someone that may very well have more horse sense than you two displayed as having is not a good way to show off your A'ss in English class.

Roger
 
sak_collector said:
Well look, it is not the buyers responsibility to keep up with the maker. He has laid out money and wants his knife. I am so sick of more and more seeing makers made out to be saints and the customer should never question a makers efforts.

What if you had your car worked on, and the mechanic moved and never contacted you? It would not be your job to hunt your car down. Knife making is a business, if these guys are not expected to be responsible when they take somebody's money then they need to find something else to do with a little supervision.

The guy has his money, when does he become a thief? 6 months, 7 months, never?

Ive moved a few times, I have never been out of contact for months at a time and if it is going to be some time there are multiple other ways to make contact.

People need to stop giving makers a pass for this type of crap. Just regular folks trading knives cant get away with it and neither should makers.
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Exactly. Good post.
 
I find it a little disconcerting how so many folks feel the need to jump in and hammer down on the pile with their analogies.

It's been made perfectly clear that there was a lack of communication and Roger is trying to get back on track. He does not intend to steal any monies from those involved, so he is not a thief.

I don't think anyone feels a maker should recieve a "free pass." This is the problem with threads like this, and why Matt Roberts (Longrifle) made the post that he did. It can quickly throw this stigma out that makers are going to screw somebody over (on purpose) and then get away with it.

The reason you see makers backing Roger is not only due to them being friends, it's because only a maker can really understand all that's going on and truly empathize with such a situation. The thing we all have to keep in mind, is we're not dealing with a business where somebody picks up a part off of a shelf and drops it in the mail. We're dealing with making a custom knife from scratch... there are so many damn things that can go hay-wire it's rather staggering.

That doesn't mean Roger shouldn't have stayed in contact. Everyone (including Roger) agrees on that.

And for the record, I have had someone do "the reversed roles" to me, as has been brought up so many times. A customer ordered a knife that was totally whacky, but I made it anyway. He did not pay me, and kept giving excuses. He moved away, and I lost total contact. Finally a year later, I found him and went to his workplace to discuss it with him.

It was not okay. I WAS very mad about it.

I did not, however, go to his workplace and start shouting from the roof-top that he was a thief. That's really what many of you folks have tried to do with this thread (I don't think that was QUITE the original intent) The internet has a HUGE power over our customers now-a-days. One really ugly thread spreads like a tidal wave, and can have horrific effects on a maker.

It seems to me at this point, it would be best if everyone gave Roger a chance to make things right with his customer and quits dog-piling on him.

Just my $0.02 :)
 
Roger,

I Respect you buddy,you have only done rite by me. I'm sorry this unfortunate turn of events has accured. I would and will still buy from you any day of the week my friend.

Yoshima,

I'm sorry this has hapend to you and I know Mr. Linger will make this rite.Rest easy my friend.I have so much faith in Roger that I would give you my Linger WSK free of charge if he did not,knowing well he would make good on it.

Frank

Frankecast1@yahoo.com
 
rlinger said:
Edit: I do wish I had not glanced at the two previous posts before mine. I can take being called a theif when there is great enough disapointment in me to cause that thought. Making fun of someone that may very well have more horse sense than you two displayed as having is not a good way to show off your A'ss in English class.

Roger
Click to expand...

You know, In retrospect, this thread might not have been the best place for light heartedness. There was no harm meant by my post.
 
oilman in rereading your thread I do see a part that is sincere. fact is the spell ck has a time understanding what I write. coupled with I don't have time to rewrite anymore times than three or four times :rolleyes: which I do now :)

thanks Roger for the vote of understanding...back in my earlier posts is one reason I mention knowing real names ..it's hard to get to know oilman? :) and the gravity of thought that went into that or other posts from guys we don't know or can't get to know...
and "oilman" as an example only will not know me, who is oilman? :)
I have only myself to blame for my lack of education guys plainly put..
but that alone has excelled me in other places so much for the better..
the swap for common sense over grammar I'll take any day.
Ira thanks.. :)
 
Well said Nick. I think it is time for me to leave this thread and let Roger work things out; I am sure that he will.

Roger, I hope things are getting better for you. It sounds like life hasn't been the greatest for you lately.
 
Everyone. I finally received an email from Mr.Linger today. He did explain to me about what went wrong briefly. He did apologized to me about not contacting me back about update as well. Now I am so relieved. Thank you so much once again for all the good members of this board. Please accept my apology for using the word "stole " when I started this Thread. I thought it was stolen, but I do not feel that way any more.
 
Dan, don't worry!! I have talked with you in person and your are easy to understand because you are honest as the day is long and an absolute gentleman.

Take stock in the fact that very few here would EVER consider making fun of you to your face, Very few!!!!:D :D

And I understand exactly what you say when you post......................
 
Yshimo, GREAT!!! I am very glad to read your post :D

Personally, I never felt that YOU had any ill intent with your post... it was some of the following commentary that got ugly. I would have been concerned if I were you as well.

Some of my fellow makers/friends got quite passionate about it... sometimes our hearts belch out words that our rationale would have edited.

I think the bottom line is everyone wanted (as Kit would say) all parties to reach a mutual and happy conclusion.

I'm glad things are getting fixed.

Thanks Yshimo and Roger :D

+++ another ugly thread in GB&U with a good ending :cool:
 
I edited my last two posts..



Dan Gray said:
oilman in rereading your thread I do see a part that is sincere. the fact is the spell ck has a time understanding what I write. coupled with I don't have time to rewrite anymore times than three or four times :rolleyes: which I do now :)

thanks Roger for the vote of understanding...back in my earlier posts is one reason I mention knowing real names ..it's hard to get to know oilman? :) and the gravity of thought that went into that or other posts from guys we don't know or can't get to know...
and "oilman" as an example only will not know me, who is oilman? :)
I have only myself to blame for my lack of education guys plainly put..
but that alone has excelled me in other places so much for the better..
the swap for common sense over grammar I'll take any day.
Ira thanks.. :)
Click to expand...
 
I'm glad to see that this has come to a good ending yshimo, you'll not regret getting that knife from Roger. He's a top notch maker and a very giving person. I'm honored to know him along with all the other good makers over in shoptalk. Yes we did get passionate with the comments being made about our friend, because we know Roger is a good man.
Dan Gray, I also spoke to you on the phone and appreciate your wealth of knowledge when it came to answering my questions. ;)
Nick, your post #89 was fantastic! AMEN to that. ;)
Scott
 
I'm glad that all parties are satisfied and that the issue has been resolved.

And I think that it shows how special Bladeforums really is, when a guy can come here and post a problem on 10-23-05 and have it resolved on 10-27-05.

I hope that we all learned something from this, and I hope no one harbors any ill feelings.

Allen.
 
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