rust on Blackjack II 1-7 blades

Cliff Stamp said:
When I pointed out that there is published work which shows this to be false, including a wealth of materials data, and cite the resources, along with references to many experienced user and maker reports, some of them which are over a dozen years old, you reply that not only have you not contacted those individuals with contradictory data before you heavily critize them stating they don't know how to sharpen knives correctly you do not intend to :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3847847&postcount=6

You also belittle the work they do, refering to a PhD thesis by Landes who is a metallurgist and knife maker as "second hand info" from a person who lacks your level of sharpening skills, and similar for Verhoeven, not to mention Johnston who has one of the most extreme demands on sharpness I have ever heard of. You then still have the ability with a straight face to ask/demand for an apology here?

-Cliff
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Actually, I ask everyone to read that thread, Cliff Stamp is completely lying here about me, I never made any reference whatsoever to these people.

I never refered once to any of the people he is naming here. All I said was is that based on my personal experience sharpening D2, was that I can get it as sharp as any other steel.

Cliff's claims that I attacked those other people is a complete fabrication on his part.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
This is complete BS. So because you think highly of Mr. warner you place blame on Mike Stewart for your rusty blades?!!! WTF is that about? Mike Stewart worked at Blackjack back in the day. To say he is not knowledgable sounds more like a personal attack. BRK&T is not responsible for your rusty blades!!! They only assembled the knives and then were shipped back to Blackjack you halfwit! I would like to know how you've come to the conclusion that BRK&T is responsible. You are one ignorant individual if you truly believe that. Did you bring any of this up to Ken Warner since you think so highly of him? What is his opinion on the matter? Or would you rather us call Mr. Warner and ask him to respond to this thread?

I am of the strong opinion that you are here for nothing more than a smear campaign against Mike Stewart and BRK&T. You needed a scapegoat because you can't possibly fathom that your knife hero could possibly let a less than quality knife leave his shop.

You are a troll of the highest order. Nothing more, nothing less.

And for all of you who think I'm wrong......too bad. :mad:
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Very professional response - you definitely lead by example. What a pity that your "version of the truth" and opionions are worth no more any anyone else's. Cliff distributes more intelligent discussion than you have ever managed, while he's sneezing.

whitie
 
"What I stated is, what I believe to be true...from my direct experience. Never did I attack or disredit ANYONE else."

My point exactly!
 
CDNWIDE said:
"What I stated is, what I believe to be true...from my direct experience. Never did I attack or disredit ANYONE else."

My point exactly!
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But apparently it wasn't "whities" now was it?

"These Blackjack II knives were made by Mike Stewart and his bark river knife company. A cuctom maker looked at my rusty 1-7 knives this past week and commented that the acid likely was not fully cleaned off after the acid etch.

A buddy of mine is afraid to post pics on the "other" knife forum for concern that "unlimited moderator powers Mike" will ban him just for speaking up. :barf:
 
whitie said:
Very professional response - you definitely lead by example. What a pity that your "version of the truth" and opionions are worth no more any anyone else's. Cliff distributes more intelligent discussion than you have ever managed, while he's sneezing.

whitie
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Retract your lies and apologize for posting misinformation. Just because I moderate here does not mean that I have to tolerate liars and scumbags such as yourself. And as for Cliff Stamp....well, he knows my feelings about him and he is a non-issue to me at this point and not the topic of discussion. My version of the truth is a close to it as it will ever come. You have wronglfully placed blame on someone for something they had no part of. That is the simple truth of the matter. You are a liar plain and simple. All we have asked of you is a simple apology to Mike Stewart. The facts of the case were explained to you and laid out in great detail yet you still chose to blame Mike Stewart for your and/or Blackjack Knives responsibilty in the matter.
 
whitie said:
What a pity that your "version of the truth" and opionions are worth no more any anyone else's.
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We're still waiting for you to explain why your version is worth anything. Previously, I assumed you had some agenda to discredit Mike Stewart. Now I'm beginning to think you are a simple troll. Prove me wrong by producing the evidence that has been asked of you from the beginning of this thread. Without it, there is no point to further discussion as it will be pure conjecture.

And if you have any sense of decency, apologize to Mike Stewart for falsely attributing him.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Retract your lies and apologize for posting misinformation. Just because I moderate here does not mean that I have to tolerate liars and scumbags such as yourself. And as for Cliff Stamp....well, he knows my feelings about him and he is a non-issue to me at this point and not the topic of discussion. My version of the truth is a close to it as it will ever come. You have wronglfully placed blame on someone for something they had no part of. That is the simple truth of the matter. You are a liar plain and simple. All we have asked of you is a simple apology to Mike Stewart. The facts of the case were explained to you and laid out in great detail yet you still chose to blame Mike Stewart for your and/or Blackjack Knives responsibilty in the matter.
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Apologize??? You have to be joking. I'm not lying about anything. Ken Warner told me a few years ago that he receives completed BJ II knives and his contribution is to package them for shipping. That's it. Ken doesn't assemble or manufacture anything. Mike Stewart and his BRKT company were the last ones to do anything with the knives except pack them for shipping.

Regarding this nonsense about who "made" these 1-7, check out Mike Stewart's comments on the first 2 pages of this post: http://knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/761177/ . Mike makes it clear that BRKT "MADE" these 1-7. Now the feeble-minded are up in arms because Mike Stewart now says poor BRKT simply "assembled" the knives. Personally, I think the whole 'manufacture vs. assemble' discussion is a meaningless smoke screen to the truth. BRKT manufactured/assembled the knives and Ken Warner did nothing that would compromise the integrity of the blades.

whitie
 
whitie said:
BRKT manufactured/assembled the knives and Ken Warner did nothing that would compromise the integrity of the blades.

whitie
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Who MADE the blades?

Evidence please of anything other than improper storage?

Again, who is the mystery knifemaker/expert that told you this?
 
I thought that the theory of the thus far unidentified expert was that the etching acid caused the rust 90 days after you received the knives -- and Lord knows how long after the blades were etched. That being the theory that you sponsored, however little reality it might have, what does assembling the blades into knives have to do with the rust?

Follow the bouncing ball?

And still no interest in who made the blades? Interesting.
 
I don't care even IF Bark River made the blades. If you're going to put away knives for God knows how long, prior to putting any wax on them a prudent person would make sure the knives were thoroughly cleaned. If you put wax over contaminants, you've just sealed them in over the steel. I find it hard to believe that the etching acid hadn't already caused visible rust by the time they were delivered to the owner. You could leave a carbon steel knife with just WATER on it and you'd see rust pretty quickly. Those knives probably sat around for a few days at the factory before they were shipped to the distributor or vendor. Even if not, they would take a few days to get there by mail. They would have probably sat in stock for a while before they were sent to the owner. Again, a few more days by mail. The owner didn't see anything visibly wrong with them, and waxed them and put them away. Months later there is rust - it has to be Mike Stewart's fault!!! He must be using some newly invented delayed-reaction acid.
 
The Last Confederate said:
Who MADE the blades?

Evidence please of anything other than improper storage?

Again, who is the mystery knifemaker/expert that told you this?
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Confederate, do you really think that "making the blades" has much to do with corrosion performance? Do you really? I'd suggest that the material itself and the handling/coatings used have more influence over corrosion that who "made" the blades. Somehow, these knives were introduced to something that I hope never to see again.

I can't give "evidence" of storage of any kind. In essence, that's a rather stupid request, don't you think. Why not ask for evidence that I didn't fart in church last Sunday. Or maybe you are just trying to ask ridiculous questions (another smoke screen perhaps). I have hundreds of knives and handled these no differnently than any others, and no, none of these ever saw the inside of the sheath.

My knifemaker that cleaned up my 1-7 blades has seen this and the KF thread. He's a big boy and obvoulsy have decided there is nothing to be gained by commenting. Who can blame him. Ditto my friend that is afraid to post on KF (he doesn't have a BF ID). These guys have read your line of questioning and no one can force them to do anything. I will admit, though, that my knife maker contact doesn't etch blades, and as such I shouldn't have mentioned his comments about the etching process (my bad).

whitie
 
Formal retraction... my comments about the etching process were not appropriate. It dawns on me that my knife maker doesn't etch blades, so he was shooting from the hip with his comments. I should have realized that before posting. I might comment that it was an honest mistake, but most of you are set to believe only what you want to.

That's it.. all my "lies" are now exposed. Boy what a relief!! Yes, I do feel better. :thumbup: Nothing else said in any of my posts is false in any way, regardless of what all-knowing, self-important moderators have to say on the subject.



whitie
 
whitie said:
Confederate, do you really think that "making the blades" has much to do with corrosion performance? Do you really? I'd suggest that the material itself and the handling/coatings used have more influence over corrosion that who "made" the blades.
whitie
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Then why did you start this whole thing by making such a point of blaming it on Mike Stewart making them.....:jerkit:
 
I stated that Mike Stewart made them because Mike Stewart said that BRKT made them. Again, check out the KF thread (link in above post) and tell me how you would interpret "who made them". No interpretation help necessary.

The white paper that Ken Warner packs these 1-7 in looks perfect (no liquid evidence of anything out of the ordinary). If Ken had introduced something onto the blades, I would expect to see/smell something in his white paper wrapping. The wrapping paper is totally clean. Of course, you can scream "EVIDENCE, give it to us now", to which I say believe whatever the hell you want.

I don't need anyone's help interpretting the "facts" as things are pretty clear. BRKT did something to help these particular blades rust pre-maturely. Again, believe whatever the hell you want... it really doesn't matter to me.

whitie
 
whitie said:
I stated that Mike Stewart made them because Mike Stewart said that BRKT made them. Again, check out the KF thread (link in above post) and tell me how you would interpret "who made them". No interpretation help necessary.

The white paper that Ken Warner packs these 1-7 in looks perfect (no liquid evidence of anything out of the ordinary). If Ken had introduced something onto the blades, I would expect to see/smell something in his white paper wrapping. The wrapping paper is totally clean. Of course, you can scream "EVIDENCE, give it to us now", to which I say believe whatever the hell you want.

I don't need anyone's help interpretting the "facts" as things are pretty clear. BRKT did something to help these particular blades rust pre-maturely. Again, believe whatever the hell you want... it really doesn't matter to me.

whitie
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As relayed to me by Mike Stewart personally via PM on another forum regarding your knives:

Mike Stewart said:
Just so you here it from me--I did not make that batch of blades.

I did assemble them for Ken.

All the New BJKs are Being 100% made by me.

I did that batch and had a lot of trouble with the Fit of those Blades.

I told Ken that I would only make them in the Future if I had control of all of the components from the Start.

I'm making 1500 of them right now for Ken.


It is possible the Acid can Cause those light marks but not Months later.

Regardless--He knows that they would still be covered under Warranty and it would cost nothing to have them re polished and re-etched.

When a Blade is Acid Etched--The Electro Acid is only around the Logo--It is Neutralized Immediately and the blade--In our shop-- is scrubbed with Water and Baking Soda to prevent any further Etching.

If you miss a Spot--It will show in a matter of Minutes.--Not months later.

We also Passivated the Blade in heavy oil to give it an even protection from further rusting.

We bulk Pack the finished Knives to Ken.(still Oiled) He inspects them and re-packages them with the Sheaths.

We have no Control over what he may or may not do with the knives in his Boxing Process.
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So there you have it. Unless of course Mr. Warner has something to add to the contrary. You did something to those blades and you are looking to place blame for your mistake. You can sit here and try to explain yourself all you want if it makes you feel better but we cannot believe you when there is evidence 10X over to the opposite.
 
whitie said:
The white paper that Ken Warner packs these 1-7 in looks perfect (no liquid evidence of anything out of the ordinary). If Ken had introduced something onto the blades, I would expect to see/smell something in his white paper wrapping. The wrapping paper is totally clean. Of course, you can scream "EVIDENCE, give it to us now", to which I say believe whatever the hell you want.

I don't need anyone's help interpretting the "facts" as things are pretty clear. BRKT did something to help these particular blades rust pre-maturely. Again, believe whatever the hell you want... it really doesn't matter to me.

whitie
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Presumably Mr. Warner, possessing AT LEAST as many facts as you do, will come to the logical conclusion.

The etching acid theory having gone away, why it is "clear" that BRKT did "something" to make this rust problem appear is not evident to me and, I suspect, most here. Must be the fault of the unfavored company.

I have received a BRKT carbon steel knife (Northwind) with rust problems, but so did many who bought on "sale" from the particular southern vendor in question, and BRKT nevertheless offered to buff out all the blades in question at no charge. BRKT knives that I have received from three other vendors (two also in Southern locations) and five members of this Forum did not have such problems.
 
whitie said:
I don't need anyone's help interpretting the "facts" as things are pretty clear. BRKT did something to help these particular blades rust pre-maturely. Again, believe whatever the hell you want... it really doesn't matter to me.

whitie
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That's kind of a vague accusation. The "facts" are not exactly established. BRKT might or might not have made the actual blades. You heard that they did from Ken Warner himself, which is good information, but by your own admission he told you this years ago. What about right now, or months ago when the knives were made? Things change over time. It would be great to get a firm statement from somebody in charge at Blackjack. (Edit: I wrote this before I read Ken's post above where Mike stated clearly that he did not make the blades at that time).

They "did something" to make the blades rust pre-maturely. What might that "something" be? You couldn't go into a court of law and say your neighbor "did something" to make your car go off the road and crash into a tree. What we really need are actual facts here and not speculation.
 
whitie said:
I stated that Mike Stewart made them because Mike Stewart said that BRKT made them. Again, check out the KF thread (link in above post) and tell me how you would interpret "who made them". No interpretation help necessary.
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How about we take it directly from www.knifeware.com?

This is from an e-mail that was sent to me at 6:10pm tonight from Kevin Warner.

"The first batch of Knifeware 1-7s was built by Bark River with parts,
including ground blades, I supplied."

So there, Mike Stewart did not make these blades, or are you going to argue with the company that SUPPLIED the blades?

Stop blaming Mike Stewart or the Warners, someone didn't take proper care of their 1095 blades and they rusted.

Take some responsibility.
 
whitie said:
I don't need anyone's help interpretting the "facts" as things are pretty clear. BRKT did something to help these particular blades rust pre-maturely.
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I suppose now we will get testimony from a nameless expert in metallurgy to confirm this?

whitie said:
Again, believe whatever the hell you want... it really doesn't matter to me.
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Then why did you start this thread?

:thumbdn:
 
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