S30V vs M390 Toughness?

na ill pass on the whine and cheese LOL thanks though oh and heres some more info on s30v http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/S30V.pdf
james terrio said:
Yes. My understanding is, S30V came about by Crucible attempting to develop a stainless 3V. They didn't quite succeed.



I think you're missing the point. There are several different ways to measure "toughness" and "corrosion resistance" and so forth, and not all datasheets report the same methods. So even compiling/comparing DS's from different manu's doesn't always give us a true, clear picture of what we're looking at.

Some of us do take this stuff pretty seriously... sometimes because it's an important part of our livelihood. If you're more interested in lols, perhaps you would have more fun in Whine & Cheese. :)
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shinyedges said:
This might be incorrect but wasn't s30v originally created as a knife steel ? I thought I read it was one of the first steels created specifically for knives?
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Well, not exactly.....

Knife steel was part of it, but it's useful in other parts of the steel industry also....
 
shinyedges said:
I guess phil wilson was incorrect http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/S30V.pdf
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He isn't wrong as that's how it was marketed to the knife industry and there was a few people in the knife industry that helped develop it for the use in knife blades.

Now if you want to talk about a steel that was developed for knife makers that would be CPM 154 as that was specifically developed for them as an alternative over S30V.
 
So it WAS developed for knife steel... your answers confuse me. I know it can be used in other areas than knife steel but as you stated it WAS developed for knife steel and used in other applications instead of being developed for other applications and being used as knife steel.
Ankerson said:
He isn't wrong as that's how it was marketed to the knife industry and there was a few people in the knife industry that helped develop it for the use in knife blades.

Now if you want to talk about a steel that was developed for knife makers that would be CPM 154 as that was specifically developed for them as an alternative over S30V.
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shinyedges said:
So it WAS developed for knife steel... your answers confuse me. I know it can be used in other areas than knife steel but as you stated it WAS developed for knife steel and used in other applications instead of being developed for other applications and being used as knife steel.
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It's means exactly what I said....

There is a lot of history about what actually went on with S30V....

Crucible already had developed the steel, it was in the development stages, with the help from Chris Reeve and a few other knife makers the formula was tweaked for use in knife blades....
 
Thats not what this link says. Phil wilson's history of s30v says It is finally here! We have been hearing rumors for about 3 years about a super steel
being developed specifically for knife blades by Crucible Materials Corporation. The
original idea was to take the basic alloy composition of CPM 3V and add enough
chromium to make it stainless. 3V has a reputation for being the steel to use if toughness
is the main criteria. The trick was to add enough chrome to improve the corrosion
resistance but not compromise the superb toughness to a significant degree. The new
composition is called CPM S30V. It is a particle metallurgy based tool steel just like 3V
and all the others like CPM S60V and CPM S90V.

So when s30v was born into the world from the idea of 3v it has specific intentions as to what it would be used for...knife steel. As you stated certain makers helped DEVELOP it for knife steel.
Ankerson said:
It's means exactly what I said....

There is a lot of history about what actually went on with S30V....

Crucible already had developed the steel, it was in the development stages, with the help from Chris Reeve and a few other knife makers the formula was tweaked for use in knife blades....
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shinyedges said:
So when s30v was born into the world from the it has specific intentions as to what it would be used for...knife steel. As you stated certain makers helped DEVELOP it for knife steel.
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Yes, as I said.....

Those knife makers were Chris Reeve, Sal Glesser and Phil Wilson...... And a few others I forgot....

They were involved in the development of S30V for use in knife blades.

S60V and S90V had more Vanadium that they wanted to deal with back then in production knives...

So they wanted a steel that had less Vanadium in it.

Crucible approached Chris Reeve and basically said we have the steel that we think would be good for knife blades, Chris and the others got involved and the end result was S30V after tweaking it and a lot of R&D...
 
back on topic, Crucible has the toughness of 20cv listed as the same as 440c at two points higher in hardness. crucible has s30v listed as being 4 times tougher than 440c... any clarification on why the manufacturer has s30v as being tougher than 20cv? are they incorrect? If what i'm reading from crucible is incorrect please correct me i'm just confused on why crucible would be incorrect about the steels they developed
 
shinyedges said:
back on topic, Crucible has the toughness of 20cv listed as the same as 440c at two points higher in hardness. crucible has s30v listed as being 4 times tougher than 440c... any clarification on why the manufacturer has s30v as being tougher than 20cv? are they incorrect? If what i'm reading from crucible is incorrect please correct me i'm just confused on why crucible would be incorrect about the steels they developed
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You are putting too much stock in the graphs etc in the data sheet...

CPM 20CV is the same as Latrobe 20CV, CTS 204P and M390....

The steel was not developed for knife blades, it was developed for the Plastics industry....

Use as a knife steel is a lot different than what it was originally developed for.
 
RevDevil said:
IN that case... :) I would say the M390 is a tougher steel. But in general, not all makers do the same thing to the steel or follow the recommended heat treating protocol. It can and does vary a great deal. You probably already knew that though. Just reiterating for the new folks. :)
I know a little about the Para2, old pic and that is incomplete and only sprint runs.
NISfbzll.jpg
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Rev, I gotta ask, you always have a wonderful set of photos and knives in your collection. What is your top three favorite knives of all time and do you have a favorite edc knife? I. E. Is the pm2 up there for you in terms of rank.
 
Ankerson heres what you said...

Ankerson said:
Well, not exactly.....

Knife steel was part of it, but it's useful in other parts of the steel industry also....
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BUT you later confirm S30V was indeed made for knife steels first.. when a steel is developed for a specific purpose then how does that not qualify as its "original" "intended" use? Whether they started by modifying 3v or not when the contents of a steel are changed to create a new steel then thats what it is a NEW steel. I'm sure you know even slightly changing composition of a steel results in an entirely different set of properties.

This is off topic anyway so ill jump back on topic
 
shinyedges said:
Ankerson heres what you said...



BUT you later confirm S30V was indeed made for knife steels first.. when a steel is developed for a specific purpose then how does that not qualify as its "original" "intended" use? Whether they started by modifying 3v or not when the contents of a steel are changed to create a new steel then thats what it is a NEW steel. I'm sure you know even slightly changing composition of a steel results in an entirely different set of properties.

This is off topic anyway so ill jump back on topic
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Might be good for use in knives and then tweaked for knife use isn't the same as developed for knife use..... ;)

It's a fine line.....

In the end the result was CPM S30V and CRK was the 1st one to use it in production knives.
 
I Never said M390 was developed for knife steel I said S30v was specifically developed as a knife steel....because it was.
Here's what i wrote exactly
This might be incorrect but wasn't s30v originally created as a knife steel ? I thought I read it was one of the first steels created specifically for knives?

Not sure where you got that m390 was developed for knife steel as i never said that.
Ankerson said:
You are putting too much stock in the graphs etc in the data sheet...

CPM 20CV is the same as Latrobe 20CV, CTS 204P and M390....

The steel was not developed for knife blades, it was developed for the Plastics industry....

Use as a knife steel is a lot different than what it was originally developed for.
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shinyedges said:
I Never said M390 was developed for knife steel I said S30v was specifically developed as a knife steel....because it was.
Here's what i wrote exactly
This might be incorrect but wasn't s30v originally created as a knife steel ? I thought I read it was one of the first steels created specifically for knives?

Not sure where you got that m390 was developed for knife steel as i never said that.
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The point was is to ignore the charts as they don't have anything to do with knife blades....... AT ALL.....

They reference a general guide as to what the steels were originally developed for...
 
YOU stated several makers helped DEVELOP s30v for knife steel..... where are you getting confused? where exactly did you get "might be good"? or "tweaked for knife use"? The fact is S30V was made for knife steel period you confirmed it... If S30V wasnt made for knife steel what was S30V made for then? Phil wilsons word on this was deemed correct even by you.. so im not sure what your saying here.
Ankerson said:
Might be good for use in knives and then tweaked for knife use isn't the same as developed for knife use..... ;)

It's a fine line.....

In the end the result was CPM S30V and CRK was the 1st one to use it in production knives.
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My point was S30V was CREATED as a knife steel. Therefore that is its ORIGINAL developed use..... AND as for crucibles data on the steel they created not having ANYTHING or NOTHING to do with the steel THEY created is just plain wrong. Crucible put info out on the steel they make.. your saying there wrong and there data has nothing to do with there steel lol wow
Ankerson said:
The point was is to ignore the charts as they don't have anything to do with knife blades....... AT ALL.....

They reference a general guide as to what the steels were originally developed for...
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shinyedges said:
YOU stated several makers helped DEVELOP s30v for knife steel..... where are you getting confused? where exactly did you get "might be good"? or "tweaked for knife use"? The fact is S30V was made for knife steel period you confirmed it... If S30V wasnt made for knife steel what was S30V made for then? Phil wilsons word on this was deemed correct even by you.. so im not sure what your saying here.
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I am not confused at all..... ;)

Since I know exactly what transpired back then....
 
ok. I emailed crucible well just see what comes from the horses mouth. Phil wilson is a man i respect and i trust what information he puts out.
Ankerson said:
I am not confused at all..... ;)

Since I know exactly what transpired back then....
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shinyedges said:
My point was S30V was CREATED as a knife steel. Therefore that is its ORIGINAL developed use..... AND as for crucibles data on the steel they created not having ANYTHING or NOTHING to do with the steel THEY created is just plain wrong. Crucible put info out on the steel they make.. your saying there wrong and there data has nothing to do with there steel lol wow
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The point being here is as I have tried to say more than a few times.....

Those charts and data sheets have NOTHING to do with knife blades....

The knife industry is a very small part of the overall steel industry, like 10%........

ALL of those steels used in knives are used in other parts of the steel industry.... And that's what those data sheets and charts are for....
 
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