S30V vs M390 Toughness?

Crucible lists the mechanical properties of the steel http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf right there. what ever the steel ends up being shaped into the mechanical properties would still apply whether its a feed screw or die or a knife blade mechanical properties apply to the steel period.. not sometimes, all the time.
Ankerson said:
The point being here is as I have tried to say more than a few times.....

Those charts and data sheets have NOTHING to do with knife blades....

The knife industry is a very small part of the overall steel industry, like 10%........

ALL of those steels used in knives are used in other parts of the steel industry.... And that's what those data sheets and charts are for....
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Ive heard of many famous knife makers not all of them but most of the notable ones I must have missed you.. Do you work for crucible? Produce any notable books on steels? seems you cut cardboard and have proclaimed your self most knowledgeable.. perhaps a slice of humble pie is in order. What school did you attend on metallurgy?
Any one can read through the many pages of golden information on this awesome website. Ive read your edge retention thread and it seems that is the reason your the end all be all of information on steel? No doubt you know a good amount on steel but thats why im surprised you dont know that mechanical properties have very much to do with knife blades. Dismissing the info crucible puts out on there steel is wrong.
Ankerson said:
That's funny....

You are trying to tell me about steel...

Now that is amusing.....
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Anyway ankerson ill post up the email from crucible when they reply.. i think Phil wilson will be correct but who knows.
 
shinyedges said:
Ive heard of many famous knife makers not all of them but most of the notable ones I must have missed you.. Do you work for crucible? Produce any notable books on steels? seems you cut cardboard and have proclaimed your self most knowledgeable.. perhaps a slice of humble pie is in order. What school did you attend on metallurgy?
Any one can read through the many pages of golden information on this awesome website. Ive read your edge retention thread and it seems that is the reason your the end all be all of information on steel? No doubt you know a good amount on steel but thats why im surprised you dont know that mechanical properties have very much to do with knife blades. Dismissing the info crucible puts out on there steel is wrong.
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Actually I am a consultant if you want to get technical about it.

That Steel thread is a very small part of what I actually do...
 
shinyedges said:
Anyway ankerson ill post up the email from crucible when they reply.. i think Phil wilson will be correct but who knows.
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The answer will vary depending on who answers the email...

Depends on if you get the short answer or the long answer....

The long answer is what I gave...
 
I really really hesitate to jump in on this thread (full disclosure, I am neither a knife maker, nor a metallurgist). Shinyedges and others - it seems to me that the REAL question is NOT what the data sheets say, but how the steels in question actually perform as fully-formed products, specifically knives. As many have noted, including Ankerson and others many many times, the performance of a blade (edge retention, toughness by your preferred measure or method, stain resistance, corrosion resistance, etc) depends on the chemistry of the steel (which is on the data sheets), heat treat, grind, blade dimensions, and the specific test method. I too asked (on a different thread) about the toughness of stainless steels, but for a different sort of data - not the specs on a data sheet, but for standardized performance tests comparable to what Ankerson has generously generated on his big thread. I don't think there is anything comparable, which is not surprising because testing for toughness probably results in broken blades, not just dull ones. But the reason I asked was because it is well-understood, and explained many times, that you can't go just by the datasheets!!! So it is a total red herring to be pursuing that line of inquiry anyway, which is IMO where Ankerson is coming from in his responses (apologies for putting words into your mouth Jim).
Ok, back to work :)
 
Ankerson said:
The answer will vary depending on who answers the email...

Depends on if you get the short answer or the long answer....

The long answer is what I gave...
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Hey Mr. Ankerson,

Do you have a chart somewhere that shows and ranks or values all the steels you've personally tested? I've read some of your review posts and found them very informative for real world testing. Just curious if you've summarized them somewhere.

And yes, I'm being a little lazy asking this vs searching myself! But the vortex of semantic arguments in this thread may have people lost on the answer to the original question.

Also, what is your current favorite general EDC blade steel?

Thanks

Edit: I did find this after posting...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/793481-Ranking-of-Steels-in-Categories-based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope
 
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mb> said:
Hey Mr. Ankerson,

Do you have a chart somewhere that shows and ranks or values all the steels you've personally tested? I've read some of your review posts and found them very informative for real world testing. Just curious if you've summarized them somewhere.

And yes, I'm being a little lazy asking this vs searching myself! But the vortex of semantic arguments in this thread may have people lost on the answer to the original question.

Also, what is your current favorite general EDC blade steel?

Thanks
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Just the basic one here on the forums....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

It's a general guide.....
 
dogrunner said:
I really really hesitate to jump in on this thread (full disclosure, I am neither a knife maker, nor a metallurgist). Shinyedges and others - it seems to me that the REAL question is NOT what the data sheets say, but how the steels in question actually perform as fully-formed products, specifically knives. As many have noted, including Ankerson and others many many times, the performance of a blade (edge retention, toughness by your preferred measure or method, stain resistance, corrosion resistance, etc) depends on the chemistry of the steel (which is on the data sheets), heat treat, grind, blade dimensions, and the specific test method. I too asked (on a different thread) about the toughness of stainless steels, but for a different sort of data - not the specs on a data sheet, but for standardized performance tests comparable to what Ankerson has generously generated on his big thread. I don't think there is anything comparable, which is not surprising because testing for toughness probably results in broken blades, not just dull ones. But the reason I asked was because it is well-understood, and explained many times, that you can't go just by the datasheets!!! So it is a total red herring to be pursuing that line of inquiry anyway, which is IMO where Ankerson is coming from in his responses (apologies for putting words into your mouth Jim).
Ok, back to work :)
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Exactly.

The sheets are for the most part a general reference with HT data for the various steels.

A knife blade and a 4" thick bar of steel have nothing to do with one another....

Same goes for a Circular cutter and a knife blade, or the various wear parts that a number of steels are used for.

Knife blades are a whole different part of the steel industry in itself.

One wouldn't use a knife steel for landing gear on an F15 for example.

But a steel used to make knives out of can be used for screws or other wear parts depending on what specs are needed, and if they are the HT would be a lot different than for a knife blade.

NOTHING is really all that simple or even straight forward in general terms.

We aren't talking about the Space Shuttle or a Submarine here......
 
I understand real world use and i agree data sheets are not the final word on anything BUT disregarding mechanical properties that Crucible puts out is wrong.

Ankerson if that 4inch knife and 4inch bar of steel are made of the same steel they ABSOLUTELY have something in common they SHARE the SAME mechanical properties shape doesn't change the properties of the steel and never will.
dogrunner said:
I really really hesitate to jump in on this thread (full disclosure, I am neither a knife maker, nor a metallurgist). Shinyedges and others - it seems to me that the REAL question is NOT what the data sheets say, but how the steels in question actually perform as fully-formed products, specifically knives. As many have noted, including Ankerson and others many many times, the performance of a blade (edge retention, toughness by your preferred measure or method, stain resistance, corrosion resistance, etc) depends on the chemistry of the steel (which is on the data sheets), heat treat, grind, blade dimensions, and the specific test method. I too asked (on a different thread) about the toughness of stainless steels, but for a different sort of data - not the specs on a data sheet, but for standardized performance tests comparable to what Ankerson has generously generated on his big thread. I don't think there is anything comparable, which is not surprising because testing for toughness probably results in broken blades, not just dull ones. But the reason I asked was because it is well-understood, and explained many times, that you can't go just by the datasheets!!! So it is a total red herring to be pursuing that line of inquiry anyway, which is IMO where Ankerson is coming from in his responses (apologies for putting words into your mouth Jim).
Ok, back to work :)
Click to expand...
 
shinyedges said:
I understand real world use and i agree data sheets are not the final word on anything BUT disregarding mechanical properties that Crucible puts out is wrong.

Ankerson if that 4inch knife and 4inch bar of steel are made of the same steel they ABSOLUTELY have something in common they SHARE the SAME mechanical properties shape doesn't change the properties of the steel and never will.
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What does a 4" thick bar of steel have to do with a knife blade?

They are completely different..... And would be subject to different uses and pressures.
 
Yes, it was developed specifically for knife steel. We distribute all of our CPM S30V through our partner Niagara Specialty Metals. You can review their website at www.nsm-ny.com

Thanks
Crucible Sales


Thats what crucible had to say so it turns out phil wilson and crucible say the same thing.
 
shinyedges said:
Yes, it was developed specifically for knife steel. We distribute all of our CPM S30V through our partner Niagara Specialty Metals. You can review their website at www.nsm-ny.com

Thanks
Crucible Sales


Thats what crucible had to say so it turns out phil wilson and crucible say the same thing.
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You got the short answer.... ;)
 
Different uses yes.... different mechanical properties NO. There made of the same material they share much.. shape and size doesnt change composition or mechanical properties does it?Does changing shape or size change the steel? If so how? If you'd like we can contact crucible and get there answer on this as well? What should i ask? does changing shape and size change the properties of the steel?
Ankerson said:
What does a 4" thick bar of steel have to do with a knife blade?

They are completely different..... And would be subject to different uses and pressures.
Click to expand...
 
shinyedges said:
Different uses yes.... different mechanical properties NO. There made of the same material they share much.. shape and size doesnt change composition or mechanical properties does it?Does changing shape or size change the steel? If so how? If you'd like we can contact crucible and get there answer on this as well? What should i ask? does changing shape and size change the properties of the steel?
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You are thinking way too much.....

It's NOT the same....
 
The short answer is YES... which is what ive said this entire time you said "well, not exactly" crucible and phil wilson say the same thing here why are you the only one saying "Not,exactly" The answer to is S30V created specifically created for knives is YES. PERIOD. want to argue? call crucible and Phil wilson and tell them otherwise so far your the only one saying different.
Ankerson said:
You got the short answer.... ;)
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shinyedges said:
The short answer is YES... which is what ive said this entire time you said "well, not exactly" crucible and phil wilson say the same thing here why are you the only one saying "Not,exactly" The answer to is S30V created specifically created for knives is YES. PERIOD. want to argue? call crucible and Phil wilson and tell them otherwise so far your the only one saying different.
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The answer is still not exactly.....

The long answer is anyway...
 
Now that the answer came straight from crucible ill call your response WRONG and anyone who cares to verify can call or email crucible. The manufacturer who made the steel has already spoken and your calling crucible liars lol ok crucible is wrong and your right get real....
Ankerson said:
The answer is still not exactly.....

The long answer is anyway...
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