SALE ISSUE - KNIFE NOT RECEIVED

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rockyl87 said:
doesnt make sense if the buyer was a scammer, he would just bought it off of you on ebay, and claim through ebay you sent him an empty envolope way easier...

i hope best case snario, the knife was stolen while in transit.
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You're perfectly right! Thank you
 
The buyer and the seller are both impractical, and stubborn hence very entrenched in their beliefs and opinions, which they are entitled to but none of those opinions means that they are absolutely right. I swore not to get engaged with this crap as I had deleted my other posts (moot point because I was quoted several times by others who had responded to me, therefore my foot print in this quagmire already exists). I do not wish to hear from this buyer (had accused me of defending the seller which I did not!) because I had raised several valid points which did not resonate well with him in his distressed state of mind. I have decided to reengage because I had read what the seller is saying which frankly speaking, does not look very good for his status as being an asset member of this community, despite all his previous positive feedback!

Based on all the back and forth, these are obvious facts as stated below (mixed in with some opinion) whether either party likes them or not:

- Seller mailed an envelope containing a 10.1 oz object (I personally believe that it was the knife, but that is just me!)

- Seller purchased the postage at a retail USPS facility. The buyer seems to have a hard time distinguishing between a postage stamp (printed) and a printed label which anyone can do from home. I could not drive this point through to the buyer in my prior posts!

- Seller did the minimum possible to protect the item which he was mailing and just because there were no other incidents in the past, it does not mean anything in this case because something happened to that item during its transit! IMHO, seller gets an F (fail) grade for his packaging if that is his attitude! I have mailed plenty of similarly sized knives in bubbled lined envelops when a huge size box was not the best available option but I always protect the knife inside bubble wrap and then encase it with recycled cardboard and then stick that inside a bubble wall envelop with annoyingly copious packaging tape engulfing the outer seams, so practically making my own makeshift box!

- It is absolutely the seller's responsibility to file a claim because he is the one who purchased that label. PERIOD! (buyer is from Canada and by simply passing the buck to him is grounds for punishment of some sort).

- Both buyer and seller met on eBay first and from my understanding, the seller lured him away and brought him here to do an off beat deal to save them both a few $ so they are both in violation of eBay's TOS but the seller is in bigger trouble in that regard.

- Buyer used a third party across the border mailing address. IMO, this should always be disclosed to the sender. I believe that the seller was aware in this case which did not care as getting the $ from the sale was the most important factor to him!

- Buyer made the crucial mistake of selecting F&F as a method of payment to someone he had not transacted with in the past and there was not modicum of trust established between the "so-called" friends (again being against PayPal's TOS).

I am using violet blue color for my commentary which is my opinion:

Both buyer and seller are at fault in this case which is accentuated by something having gone wrong! I don't believe that either party is trying to scam the other as they are now shouting that epithet across to each other. Because of seller's poor handling of this matter so far, he does deserve a NEGATIVE feedback at the very least because the buyer is genuinely having a negative experience. The seller does not have the right in this case to leave retaliatory negative for the buyer!

I believe that because of shoddy packaging when the envelop went through the sorting machine it got popped and the knife went to the USPS hell. Those are a bit more wavy with how the sorting conveyor belt work at these facilities may attest to this. I think that 3rd party theft is a second possibility, albeit not as high percentage as the former!

Seller is acting irresponsibly for his pisspoor shoddy packaging. I hope that he loses something out of this whole mess for whatever excuse he is conjuring up. That said, I will never deal with this buyer either, so here goes my sincere thanks to both of them for revealing their reactionary and cheap nature 👏
 
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Bottom line-if you 2 are just going to dig your heals in and not work this out between yourselves, it likely will not have a good ending.
Seller will loose his reputation and maybe more, depending on mod reaction
And buyer will still be out his money
At this point my money is on bad ending
 
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It is the SELLERS RESPONSIBILITY to get the knife to the buyer. You don’t just toss it in an envelope and lick a stamp.
 
Yes, sellers should take responsibility until the knife arrives.
 
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I personally would never ship a knife, especially something larger like a fixed blade, in a bubble mailer unless it was something under 50 bucks, and even then i tend to OVER tape my packages no matter what im selling. But i've also sent out hundreds of bubble mailers over the years in other hobbies, and I've had maybe one end up empty, they tend to be rather secure even without any extra precautions.

Most likely scenario is that the knife was packaged poorly and ended up tearing the mailer, or a thieving employee.

Seller is still responsible, though unlikely to be a scammer. A refund is necessary, but if i were the buyer in this exact situation i would suggest a 50/50 split to the seller, as it wasnt exactly their fault and i tend to try to end all transactions with both parties as content as possible.
 
Casinostocks said:
The buyer and the seller are both impractical, and stubborn hence very entrenched in their beliefs and opinions, which they are entitled to but none of those opinions means that they are absolutely right. I swore not to get engaged with this crap as I had deleted my other posts (moot point because I was quoted several times by others who had responded to me, therefore my foot print in this quagmire already exists). I do not wish to hear from this buyer (had accused me of defending the seller which I did not!) because I had raised several valid points which did not resonate well with him in his distressed state of mind. I have decided to reengage because I had read what the seller is saying which frankly speaking, does not look very good for his status as being an asset member of this community, despite all his previous positive feedback!

Based on all the back and forth, these are obvious facts as stated below (mixed in with some opinion) whether either party likes them or not:

- Seller mailed an envelope containing a 10.1 oz object (I personally believe that it was the knife, but that is just me!)

- Seller purchased the postage at a retail USPS facility. The buyer seems to have a hard time distinguishing between a postage stamp (printed) and a printed label which anyone can do from home. I could not drive this point through to the buyer in my prior posts!

- Seller did the minimum possible to protect the item which he was mailing and just because there were no other incidents in the past, it does not mean anything in this case because something happened to that item during its transit! IMHO, seller gets an F (fail) grade for his packaging if that is his attitude! I have mailed plenty of similarly sized knives in bubbled lined envelops when a huge size box was not the best available option but I always protect the knife inside bubble wrap and then encase it with recycled cardboard and then stick that inside a bubble wall envelop with annoyingly copious packaging tape engulfing the outer seams, so practically making my own makeshift box!

- It is absolutely the seller's responsibility to file a claim because he is the one who purchased that label. PERIOD! (buyer is from Canada and by simply passing the buck to him is grounds for punishment of some sort).

- Both buyer and seller met on eBay first and from my understanding, the seller lured him away and brought him here to do an off beat deal to save them both a few $ so they are both in violation of eBay's TOS but the seller is in bigger trouble in that regard.

- Buyer used a third party across the border mailing address. IMO, this should always be disclosed to the sender. I believe that the seller was aware in this case which did not care as getting the $ from the sale was the most important factor to him!

- Buyer made the crucial mistake of selecting F&F as a method of payment to someone he had not transacted with in the past and there was not modicum of trust established between the "so-called" friends (again being against PayPal's TOS).

I am using violet blue color for my commentary which is my opinion:

Both buyer and seller are at fault in this case which is accentuated by something having gone wrong! I don't believe that either party is trying to scam the other as they are now shouting that epithet across to each other. Because of seller's poor handling of this matter so far, he does deserve a NEGATIVE feedback at the very least because the buyer is genuinely having a negative experience. The seller does not have the right in this case to leave retaliatory negative for the buyer!

I believe that because of shoddy packaging when the envelop went through the sorting machine it got popped and the knife went to the USPS hell. Those are a bit more wavy with how the sorting conveyor belt work at these facilities may attest to this. I think that 3rd party theft is a second possibility, albeit not as high percentage as the former!

Seller is acting irresponsibly for his pisspoor shoddy packaging. I hope that he loses something out of this whole mess for whatever excuse he is conjuring up. That said, I will never deal with this buyer either, so here goes my sincere thanks to both of them for revealing their reactionary and cheap nature 👏
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This is the best summary of the situation I have seen. And I also agree with most of CS's opinions.

In my years on the forum, I've seen more threads about issues with empty envelopes being delivered than issues of empty boxes being delivered.
IMO, dropping a fixed blade into a bubble envelope without further packaging is setting yourself up for failure. You can succeed many times, but eventually the odds are that a failure will happen. The postal machinery is not gentle.
(Note: I don't mean that just dropping a knife into an empty box is a good idea either. Both boxes and envelopes require internal padding and external wrappings. )
 
My hot take FWIW. Mat (Casinostocks) pretty much nailed it above. My abridged version:

Seller really did ship the knife from a USPS retail location, but did a terrible job of (not) packing it in a crappy bubble mailer, which seems not to have even been sealed up properly. Knife was either torn out of the crappy bubble mailer by the sorting machines, or stolen by an employee of USPS or the border mail depot. No matter, empty envelope is the result.

Seller owes buyer a refund, simple as that. This issue seems to stem 100% from his poor packing of the knife, and he deserves negative feedback for that no matter what happens. He deserves a forum ban if he doesn’t comply with the refund. Seller’s bad attitude about the situation isn’t doing him any favors. Plus, he broke eBay’s AND PayPal’s TOS (so did the buyer FWIW).

There’s still a very slight chance that the buyer is scamming the seller, but the evidence presented thus far doesn’t make that seem likely.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Bottom line-if you 2 are just going to dig your heals in and not work this out between yourselves, it likely will not have a good ending.
Seller will loose his reputation and maybe more, depending on mod reaction
And buyer will still be out his money
At this point my money is on bad ending
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How am I digging my heels in? I tried to contact him for days. Now I am consistently asking him what he's willing to do to help the situation.

Does he intend to reimburse me fully or partially? Does he intend on contacting USPS and investigate?

I've already done everything I could on my side.
 
SpyderPhreak said:
My hot take FWIW. Mat (Casinostocks) pretty much nailed it above. My abridged version:

Seller really did ship the knife from a USPS retail location, but did a terrible job of (not) packing it in a crappy bubble mailer, which seems not to have even been sealed up properly. Knife was either torn out of the crappy bubble mailer by the sorting machines, or stolen by an employee of USPS or the border mail depot. No matter, empty envelope is the result.

Seller owes buyer a refund, simple as that. This issue seems to stem 100% from his poor packing of the knife, and he deserves negative feedback for that no matter what happens. He deserves a forum ban if he doesn’t comply with the refund. Seller’s bad attitude about the situation isn’t doing him any favors. Plus, he broke eBay’s AND PayPal’s TOS (so did the buyer FWIW).

There’s still a very slight chance that the buyer is scamming the seller, but the evidence presented thus far doesn’t make that seem likely.
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I agree with that! I'm fine with those conclusions.
 
DrRollinstein said:
I personally would never ship a knife, especially something larger like a fixed blade, in a bubble mailer unless it was something under 50 bucks, and even then i tend to OVER tape my packages no matter what im selling. But i've also sent out hundreds of bubble mailers over the years in other hobbies, and I've had maybe one end up empty, they tend to be rather secure even without any extra precautions.

Most likely scenario is that the knife was packaged poorly and ended up tearing the mailer, or a thieving employee.

Seller is still responsible, though unlikely to be a scammer. A refund is necessary, but if i were the buyer in this exact situation i would suggest a 50/50 split to the seller, as it wasnt exactly their fault and i tend to try to end all transactions with both parties as content as possible.
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I would be fine with a 50/50 refund. That would definitely be better than nothing.
 
Anderdale said:
Maybe I’m alone but I’m in the bubble mailer doesn’t bother me camp.

However, It all depends on how the item is packaged within the bubble mailer. You can’t just throw a loose item in the mailer. It needs to be wrapped in something protective and securely.

For what it’s worth, I’ve only ever had an item stolen out of a box, never out of a mailer.
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I have mailed too many to remember in bubble envelopes,I do disguise the knife so you can’t tell what is in there. Never lost one yet. Buyer is working too hard for this $230, at this point I don’t think he is trying to scam the seller. Pay the man, that is your obligation. 50/50 no good, pay the $230, as it looks like you didn’t give this sale proper attention until it went viral in BF. I’m also done with this post. Good luck getting your money, if seller is a straight up dude he will refund 100%
 
SimonLG said:
How am I digging my heels in? I tried to contact him for days. Now I am consistently asking him what he's willing to do to help the situation.

Does he intend to reimburse me fully or partially? Does he intend on contacting USPS and investigate?

I've already done everything I could on my side.
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By not getting past the scammer accusation( not a a scammer, but a crappy seller). which is just making a bad situation with the seller worse. The seller has not been making good decissions, and I don't know if he will now and deal with you, but all you can do is try.
Normally I would say you deserved a full refund, but I do think you contributed to making it impossible to win an insurance claim, by not bringing the situation to USPS's attention immediately . They are not going to pay on stories. They see the package as delivered. They are tough to get a claim paid even with all i's dotted and t's crossed.
That said I would have already paid you in full regardless, of anything you may or may not have done(which includes the 3rd party reciever). Gotten on with my life and kept my reputation. But I pack better, so none of this may have been necessary.
Losses suck( nobody sells or buys to get nothing), but are the risk we assume when having to hand the item to a shipper like USPS.


.
 
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Has the shipper filed a claim with the postal service? The postal service tracks their mail and likely records the weight at every trans shipping point. The package also went through a customs process. We would have a lot more information after a claim is filed by the shipper and the postal service allowed to trace their mailing records.

N2s
 
not2sharp said:
Has the shipper filed a claim with the postal service? The postal service tracks their mail and likely records the weight at every trans shipping point. The package also went through a customs process. We would have a lot more information after a claim is filed by the shipper and the postal service allowed to trace their mailing records.

N2s
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Seller basically said it’s not his problem and peaced out.
 
In my opinion, the seller should file an insurance claim with USPS and explain the circumstances, not try to hand off all responsibility to the buyer.

Once a decision is rendered from the USPS, he should come to terms with the buyer on some level of restitution for failure to take sufficient steps to avoid (and not invite) theft or loss.

If the seller is unwilling to take these steps, then I don't believe he belongs in this community.
 
kreole said:
This right here says everything anyone needs to know about the seller.
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I was siding with the seller until he said this as well. Just doesn't want to take any responsibility. As someone with +54 feedback I would expect better. That's probably what the buyer thought too.

That said, I think the buyer went about it the wrong way and also paid with PPFF, so SOL unfortunately. May it be a lesson to both in this transaction.
 
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