Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sharp & Fiery said:
That photo does not match up with my 31.
My 31 has a stepped stop pin.
That photo shows a female body screw with a bushing...like a 21 has.
Click to expand...

That parts diagram matches my large plain 31. What is your 31?
I also have 1 body screw smaller than the other 2. Maybe they used 21 spare parts <shrug>
 
jackghobbies said:
That parts diagram matches my large plain 31. What is your 31?
I also have 1 body screw smaller than the other 2. Maybe they used 21 spare parts <shrug>
Click to expand...

In the 31 I have, I have two shorter screws in my 31 stop pin. Im assuming yours should be the same. The shorter screw that you took out is for the stop pin. There is another short screw on the other side holding the stepped pin in place. Thats why you thought it was in so tight, im assuming. :)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
In the 31 I have, I have two shorter screws in my 31 stop pin. Im assuming yours should be the same. The shorter screw that you took out is for the stop pin. There is another short screw on the other side holding the stepped pin in place. Thats why you thought it was in so tight, im assuming. :)
Click to expand...

lol - Who's on first? No, I have 2 long screws the exact same size and 1 short that is in the stop pin.
I did switch the 2 long pins because the original installed pivot screw kept coming out frequently.
Since switching the long pivot screw comes out less frequently but opening is a bear.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
In the 31 I have, I have two shorter screws in my 31 stop pin. Im assuming yours should be the same. The shorter screw that you took out is for the stop pin. There is another short screw on the other side holding the stepped pin in place. Thats why you thought it was in so tight, im assuming. :)
Click to expand...

lol - Who's on first? No, I have 2 long screws the exact same size and 1 short screw that is in the stop pin.
I did switch the 2 long screws because the original installed pivot screw kept frequently coming out.
Since switching, the long pivot screw comes out less frequently, but opening is a bear.
 
Jack, just watched your disassembly video. Sharp is right about this stop pin construction.
The 21 has a Chicago screw with a collar around it. It's the exact same screws as the other two, everything is identical.
The 31 has a center section threaded throughout and a smaller male screw goes in both sides.

A 21 has screws of all the same length.

On all my 21's, the stop pin collar comes off once the male side screw is removed. Your 31 stop pin is clearly held in by another screw. Look through the female 21 stop pin screw and you can see all the way through when the male is out. Your 31 has a solid screw blocking the view.

Just watch any 21 disassembly and it should be obvious.

EDIT: Watched more of Jacks video and the diagram in the background shows the correct construction. The two shorter screws are marked as #4. The screws like the 21 has everywhere are labeled #3 while the female part of the Chicago screw is #11.
 
Last edited:
Honed_Edge said:
Jack, just watched your disassembly video. Sharp is right about this stop pin construction.
The 21 has a Chicago screw with a collar around it. It's the exact same screws as the other two, everything is identical.
The 31 has a center section threaded throughout and a smaller male screw goes in both sides.

A 21 has screws of all the same length.

On all my 21's, the stop pin collar comes off once the male side screw is removed. Your 31 stop pin is clearly held in by another screw. Look through the female 21 stop pin screw and you can see all the way through when the male is out. Your 31 has a solid screw blocking the view.

Just watch any 21 disassembly and it should be obvious.

EDIT: Watched more of Jacks video and the diagram in the background shows the correct construction. The two shorter screws are marked as #4. The screws like the 21 has everywhere are labeled #3 while the female part of the Chicago screw is #11.
Click to expand...

Thanks for watching. In fact, I'm really tempted to do a full disassembly, re-assembly and demonstrate how difficult opening is. I think I can show how much tension there is. But it may be long and boring. So that.
Right, I never removed the back side stop pin and I don't think it is causing the hard to open issue, unless the tolerances are so tight that if the stop *sleeve* is a hair to narrow and that is causing the pivot screw to tighten down more than it should <shrug> Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery is that what you were eluding to? If yes, any thoughts on a resolution?
 
Last edited:
jackghobbies said:
Thanks for watching. In fact, I'm really tempted to do a full disassembly, re-assembly and demonstrate how difficult opening is. I think I can show how much tension there is. But it may be long and boring. So that.
Right, I never removed the back side stop pin and I don't think it is causing the hard to open issue, unless the tolerances are so tight that if the stop pin is a hair to narrow and that is causing the pivot screw to tighten down more than it should <shrug> Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery is that what you were eluding to? If yes, any thoughts on a resolution?
Click to expand...

Somewhat yes...

My understanding is that the collar on the 21 is hand fitted to the same tolerance as the pivot bushing and washers minus a hair.

My understanding is that the new shouldered stop pin is turned...so if the tolerance was the same as the bushing and washers +, then when you fully tightened the pivot screw, it would tilt the scales and pinch the front of the washers.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Somewhat yes...

My understanding is that the collar on the 21 is hand fitted to the same tolerance as the pivot bushing and washers minus a hair.

My understanding is that the new shouldered stop pin is turned...so if the tolerance was the same as the bushing and washers +, then when you fully tightened the pivot screw, it would tilt the scales and pinch the front of the washers.
Click to expand...
hrrrrm, any thoughts on a solve? I never really looked at the stop pin. Maybe disassemble and try to turn the stop sleeve? Or is this a wait for CRK to solve issue?
btw, I really appreciate everyone's contributions here!
 
jackghobbies said:
hrrrrm, any thoughts on a solve? I never really looked at the stop pin. Maybe disassemble and try to turn the stop sleeve? Or is this a wait for CRK to solve issue?
btw, I really appreciate everyone's contributions here!
Click to expand...
And by “turned” i mean lathed. Not rotated in the handle. :)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
...so if the tolerance was the same as the bushing and washers +, then when you fully tightened the pivot screw, it would tilt the scales and pinch the front of the washers.
Click to expand...

And with that also pinch the blade..

If this is the the case it's PIA to fix. I had to do a fix for this on a Benchmade, and even if I was ever so carefull removing material of the stop pin shoulders I ended up taking a tiiiiiny bit to much off, making it rattle slightly after the "mod" :rolleyes:..

But it actually fixed the problem and I was finally able to dial in the action as I wanted, free dropping and no bladeplay. Still has the rattle though..
 
I have an insane amount of respect for the time and passion that Chris put into the Sebenza 21. All the reiterations were rock solid.
What is disappointing the most to me...
This new 31 is not up to Chris Reeve standards. That is disappointing to me. Very, as I hold CRK knives in high regards, and use them daily.
I would hate to see the reputation of this industry turning company be tarnished.
More passion is necessary...this amount of lockrock is unacceptable.

ETA:In my opinion...the easiest way to fix this is to go back to the original 21 stop pin design and the original lockface configuration. Then they can unshorten the blade tang, and offer replacement blades for both the 21 and 31.

Its just another case of fixing something that aint broken.
 
Yeah, they might have rushed slightly into this one, but I also hear of 31's not having issues at all! :confused:

It will be interesting to see if they'll adress this or not. My guess is they will.
 
So reading through the last days comments or so... If I miss stuff I apologise...

I have a new 31 with micarta inlay... When I got it it was fairly stiff - I have disassembled and re-assembled 3 different times now - 2 of the times I re-assembled the blade was off center and it was difficult to open as stated... The last time, I played a lot with tightening sequence and flipped my washers around - so I found that actually having the 2 body screws tight when putting the blade in resultted in a waaay better action. If I had them loose, then tightened the pivot, then the body, action was much tighter - but if the body screws were right and then I tightened the pivot, it seemed that the action (and centering) were much better.

My guess is that, as stated, the blade stop is slightly different dimensions... And perhaps this is causing the scales to bend a bit as stated.

If I was you, I would try disassembling, cleaning well, check your washers/maybe flip them - and assemble and make sure the body screws are all right first.

I'm really happy with my action and centering now... Yea it's a pain compared to how my old inkosi was, but once tuned - for only having it for a few days, it's very nice.
 
rileybassman1 said:
So reading through the last days comments or so... If I miss stuff I apologise...

I have a new 31 with micarta inlay... When I got it it was fairly stiff - I have disassembled and re-assembled 3 different times now - 2 of the times I re-assembled the blade was off center and it was difficult to open as stated... The last time, I played a lot with tightening sequence and flipped my washers around - so I found that actually having the 2 body screws tight when putting the blade in resultted in a waaay better action. If I had them loose, then tightened the pivot, then the body, action was much tighter - but if the body screws were right and then I tightened the pivot, it seemed that the action (and centering) were much better.

My guess is that, as stated, the blade stop is slightly different dimensions... And perhaps this is causing the scales to bend a bit as stated.

If I was you, I would try disassembling, cleaning well, check your washers/maybe flip them - and assemble and make sure the body screws are all right first.

I'm really happy with my action and centering now... Yea it's a pain compared to how my old inkosi was, but once tuned - for only having it for a few days, it's very nice.
Click to expand...

Hey! Thanks for posting. Good to have another 31 owner here. :D

My centering and action is great...but still have the lockflex and backing out pivot screw...any ideas?
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Hey! Thanks for posting. Good to have another 31 owner here. :D

My centering and action is great...but still have the lockflex and backing out pivot screw...any ideas?
Click to expand...

I had my pivot come loose yesterday now that you mention it... However, that was before my "good" reassembly... And I just double checked and it's tight today and I have opened it probably 200+ times today... And since my "good" reassembly, my blade free falls with no play when I take lockbar pressure off... So I'm assuming that it will stay pretty tight now as I don't think there is friction from the blade/washers.... I'll keep a eye out and report back if it loosens up tho. My old standby for loosepivots is a bit of Teflon/plumbers tape.

The mentioned lock rock I sadly do have tho... I would consider it flex more then rock... But yea... Short of them coming up with a solution idk that there will be any options. I really think this is due to the lockface being a ball. My inkosi did it too and I think it's just that there is only ever a tiny rounded face against the blade Tang as opposed to a full, flat lockbar surface. Kind of annoying but I'm really gonna try and look past it as I love everything else about it.

Here a quick video of action after my "good" reassembly... And keep in mind I got this knife Friday

https://imgur.com/xe0m8Iq
 
rileybassman1 said:
So reading through the last days comments or so... If I miss stuff I apologise...

I have a new 31 with micarta inlay... When I got it it was fairly stiff - I have disassembled and re-assembled 3 different times now - 2 of the times I re-assembled the blade was off center and it was difficult to open as stated... The last time, I played a lot with tightening sequence and flipped my washers around - so I found that actually having the 2 body screws tight when putting the blade in resultted in a waaay better action. If I had them loose, then tightened the pivot, then the body, action was much tighter - but if the body screws were right and then I tightened the pivot, it seemed that the action (and centering) were much better.

My guess is that, as stated, the blade stop is slightly different dimensions... And perhaps this is causing the scales to bend a bit as stated.

If I was you, I would try disassembling, cleaning well, check your washers/maybe flip them - and assemble and make sure the body screws are all right first.

I'm really happy with my action and centering now... Yea it's a pain compared to how my old inkosi was, but once tuned - for only having it for a few days, it's very nice.
Click to expand...

Glad things have worked out for you. I have tried all of that and more. I have a *lot* of money in knives and can't recall a single knife over the years I had to do all of that to get it to expectations. Just saying.
 
Can someone elaborate on the mechanical causes of pivot screws backing out over usage? Perhaps that can shed some light on why people are experiencing this. I've seen threads and reviews on rare occasions about the 21 pivot backing out as well, so I'm pretty sure the reason is a generic one. I do have a guess and I'm curious if I'm close.
 
I believe the pivot screw is backing out because the matching of washers + pivot barrel to the stop pin aren't in tolerance. People are having to leave their pivot screw loose to get a decent opening action. And because it's not tightened down, it's backing out with usage.

I have this issue. The action on mine is unbearable when the pivot screw is tightened to where I think it should be. I have assembled and reassembled about 20 times now trying to remedy the problem. I have noticed that even when not fully tightened, I get no side to side play. So I added a drop of blue loctite. And this sucks to have to do. One of the amazing aspects of the 21 is never having to fiddle with the pivot. You could tighten it down, and always know the action would be correct as it was made from factory.

I love the inlays of the 31, but I'm growing frustrated with the allowances I'm having to give it overall.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top