Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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bmilleker said:
I believe the pivot screw is backing out because the matching of washers + pivot barrel to the stop pin aren't in tolerance. People are having to leave their pivot screw loose to get a decent opening action. And because it's not tightened down, it's backing out with usage.

I have this issue. The action on mine is unbearable when the pivot screw is tightened to where I think it should be. I have assembled and reassembled about 20 times now trying to remedy the problem. I have noticed that even when not fully tightened, I get no side to side play. So I added a drop of blue loctite. And this sucks to have to do. One of the amazing aspects of the 21 is never having to fiddle with the pivot. You could tighten it down, and always know the action would be correct as it was made from factory.

I love the inlays of the 31, but I'm growing frustrated with the allowances I'm having to give it overall.
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Are you saying the 31 does not have a pivot bushing, sandwiched between the slabs?
 
It has the pivot bushing/barrel, but I don't believe it's in tolerance. I believe this because you can tighten the pivot to the point where the blade will only open with force.

Much like on any models without the pivot bushing. You can overtighten to the point where the blade won't come out.
 
I'm speculating 100%.... But maybe they tried getting some of these out before the COVID closing happened. I received mine a week before they closed. Maybe they rushed through some of them?
 
the 31 that I returned was made around the beginning of February (seemed to be made on a late Friday afternoon :eek:)
I got a refund and ordered a BHQ CF inlay 21 - it was made Feb 26 and is absolutely perfect.
 
george65 said:
the 31 that I returned was made around the beginning of February (seemed to be made on a late Friday afternoon :eek:)
I got a refund and ordered a BHQ CF inlay 21 - it was made Feb 26 and is absolutely perfect.
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I have been trying to contact them and return a small 31 since about March 24th.

But I can’t get anyone to respond to my emails right now.

I get them being physically shut down but I would think that they would at least respond to emails periodically.
 
bmilleker said:
One of the amazing aspects of the 21 is never having to fiddle with the pivot.
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Here's my data point FWIW:

I have a large 21 PJ that I bought new from an authorized dealer, and when I crank the pivot screw down tight, the blade drops like a guillotine and has side to side blade play with the lock bar disengaged. Pivot bushing too thick or washers too thin I suppose. In practice I don't notice it and it doesn't bother me, although I do have to be a bit careful closing it.

I have a small 21 micarta that I bought in LNIB condition on the secondary market. When I crank the pivot down tight, the blade will barely budge. Pivot bushing too thin/washers too thick? I just leave the pivot screw a hair loose and it operates smoothly, I haven't had trouble with the pivot screw backing out.

I have a large 31 micarta that I got directly from CRK. The pivot on this one is Goldilocks, I can tighten it down and the blade moves smoothly and has no blade play with the lock bar disengaged. This one does exhibit the noticeable lock flex under discussion here. I can feel it rocking if I take a grip on the knife and push on the spine with my thumb, which I can't feel on my 21s with the same amount of force on the spine. In practice this flex hasn't bothered me and I use it the same as I do the large 21. But if they come up with a fix, I'll probably send it in if and when S45VN reblades become available.
 
Ptman2000 said:
I have been trying to contact them and return a small 31 since about March 24th.

But I can’t get anyone to respond to my emails right now.

I get them being physically shut down but I would think that they would at least respond to emails periodically.
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mine came from a dealer that I've bought several from. super easy return.
I got it from the mailbox at 11 a.m. and it was on its way back that same afternoon.
I should have taken a picture of the crowned spine, you wouldn't believe how woppy jawed it was.
the lock bar flex/clicking sound I just attributed to the lock interface.. didn't know it was a thing until I saw this thread.
 
ekastanis said:
Here's my data point FWIW:

I have a large 21 PJ that I bought new from an authorized dealer, and when I crank the pivot screw down tight, the blade drops like a guillotine and has side to side blade play with the lock bar disengaged. Pivot bushing too thick or washers too thin I suppose. In practice I don't notice it and it doesn't bother me, although I do have to be a bit careful closing it.

I have a small 21 micarta that I bought in LNIB condition on the secondary market. When I crank the pivot down tight, the blade will barely budge. Pivot bushing too thin/washers too thick? I just leave the pivot screw a hair loose and it operates smoothly, I haven't had trouble with the pivot screw backing out.

I have a large 31 micarta that I got directly from CRK. The pivot on this one is Goldilocks, I can tighten it down and the blade moves smoothly and has no blade play with the lock bar disengaged. This one does exhibit the noticeable lock flex under discussion here. I can feel it rocking if I take a grip on the knife and push on the spine with my thumb, which I can't feel on my 21s with the same amount of force on the spine. In practice this flex hasn't bothered me and I use it the same as I do the large 21. But if they come up with a fix, I'll probably send it in if and when S45VN reblades become available.
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From what I can see online and from my own experience the % of flaws in the 21 model is very very low.

Off course there are some and I think you just had a case of really bad luck my friend.
 
Over a dozen 21's in the drawer.
All of the plains, large and small, open the same with the pivot tight. Some free fall faster with the lock held.
A few of the knife art carbon fiber models will not drop very free with the lock held, kind of need a flick. They still open and close just as smooth with the lock putting pressure.

The total variance in my collection of 21's is only how they free drop when holding the lock over. The action when opening all of them is indistinguishable, I only notice it in some closing methods.
Note, all of them have at least a month of carry. There was a lot of out of the box difference, but they all settled in for me. I know they all don't get like that, some will be troublesome. I'm lucky.
 
Honed_Edge said:
Over a dozen 21's in the drawer.
All of the plains, large and small, open the same with the pivot tight. Some free fall faster with the lock held.
A few of the knife art carbon fiber models will not drop very free with the lock held, kind of need a flick. They still open and close just as smooth with the lock putting pressure.

The total variance in my collection of 21's is only how they free drop when holding the lock over. The action when opening all of them is indistinguishable, I only notice it in some closing methods.
Note, all of them have at least a month of carry. There was a lot of out of the box difference, but they all settled in for me. I know they all don't get like that, some will be troublesome. I'm lucky.
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I don’t have a bad 21 in the bunch. They are all smooth and no blade play. Only negative is a slight off-center grind on my large Insingo, though that seems a (un)common complaint. The blade is centered by the grind is slightly off.

They had 21 production dialed right in. That is for sure! Maybe the 31 will get there. It will have to.
 
I was thinking about my last comment here, and realizing just what a success the 21 was. Like, how many people own multiples (if they are fortunate enough to afford it), and how many saved for a single 21 as the “grail” of their collection? I realize I own eight 21s, which is more than I will ever need.

The 21 is a great user knife, and a beautiful collection piece for people bent that way as well. It was hard to find fault with unless you are a fan of Cold Steel spine-whack testing.

CRK will need to create the same culture around the 31 to continue their success. It should live up to, or exceed the quality and collectibility of the 21 for the future to be bright at CRK.
 
Imagine if the only new implements to the 31 was to loose the fabrication hole and to add the S45VN steel..

Perfection.
 
rileybassman1 said:
I had my pivot come loose yesterday now that you mention it... However, that was before my "good" reassembly... And I just double checked and it's tight today and I have opened it probably 200+ times today... And since my "good" reassembly, my blade free falls with no play when I take lockbar pressure off... So I'm assuming that it will stay pretty tight now as I don't think there is friction from the blade/washers.... I'll keep a eye out and report back if it loosens up tho. My old standby for loosepivots is a bit of Teflon/plumbers tape.

The mentioned lock rock I sadly do have tho... I would consider it flex more then rock... But yea... Short of them coming up with a solution idk that there will be any options. I really think this is due to the lockface being a ball. My inkosi did it too and I think it's just that there is only ever a tiny rounded face against the blade Tang as opposed to a full, flat lockbar surface. Kind of annoying but I'm really gonna try and look past it as I love everything else about it.

Here a quick video of action after my "good" reassembly... And keep in mind I got this knife Friday

https://imgur.com/xe0m8Iq
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I'm pretty sure a loser pivot screw with some blue loctite would solve my problem. But I have been told sev
george65 said:
the 31 that I returned was made around the beginning of February (seemed to be made on a late Friday afternoon :eek:)
I got a refund and ordered a BHQ CF inlay 21 - it was made Feb 26 and is absolutely perfect.
Click to expand...

I purchased from KnifeCenter but have only tried to contact CRK because I assumed this was a manufacturing issue.
Where did you purchase & return?
 
kidcongo said:
I don’t have a bad 21 in the bunch. They are all smooth and no blade play. Only negative is a slight off-center grind on my large Insingo, though that seems a (un)common complaint. The blade is centered by the grind is slightly off.

They had 21 production dialed right in. That is for sure! Maybe the 31 will get there. It will have to.
Click to expand...

kidcongo said:
I was thinking about my last comment here, and realizing just what a success the 21 was. Like, how many people own multiples (if they are fortunate enough to afford it), and how many saved for a single 21 as the “grail” of their collection? I realize I own eight 21s, which is more than I will ever need.

The 21 is a great user knife, and a beautiful collection piece for people bent that way as well. It was hard to find fault with unless you are a fan of Cold Steel spine-whack testing.

CRK will need to create the same culture around the 31 to continue their success. It should live up to, or exceed the quality and collectibility of the 21 for the future to be bright at CRK.
Click to expand...

I agree...I have a lot of 21’s...north of 20...and they are all solid and smooth. Just beautiful. Crk absolutely had the 21 dialed in!

kidcongo said:
Maybe that’s it! :eek: Maybe the fabrication hole was key!!

Bring it back!!!
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353 said:
Under the inlay then? Cause I can't see it on pictures.
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rileybassman1 said:
Yea it's under the inlays ... I read it is to aid in removal should they need to.
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rileybassman1 rileybassman1 is correct. The locating hole is still underneath the inlays on the 31, it helps to remove the inlays without scratching the face of the scales.

I was driving, so I couldnt answer all of your questions...update on the way, for those who are interested.
 
Well, this has been a puzzle to figure out this 31. Lol.
So I decided to break down my 31 and give it a great cleaning...for the 6/7th time? I cant even remember.
At the advice of rileybassman1 rileybassman1 I decided to tighten the screws in different orders and managed to get it together with the pivot tight. It was still very tight to open tho. Just not as bad as before...and the terrible lock flex was still there.
Then I had to take a drive...a three hour drive, so I decided I would constantly open and close this 31 all the way down the highway. No flick open, just rolled with my thumb. I figured i would try to break it in and see if the lockup got tighter. Because as I stated in an earlier post, if i physically push the lockbar over another 1-2mm it will lock up solid. So after maybe a low count of 2000 openings and a super sore thumb...my 31 is smooth smooth smooth...the pivot screw did not loosen and is still tight...

However,

It did not fix the flex issue and now I also have side to side play. Smooth, but with all sorts of slight play. If I push the lockbar in another 1-2mm (which is almost 100% lockup) I have solid lockup, no side/side, and acceptable flex (think 21).
So with a regular roll, or even a wrist flick, this 31 will not lock up solidly.

Then I got this idea that maybe with cutting force on the blade, I could get it to lock up further...so I got a piece of hardwood and did some testing. The tests are inconclusive.
Sometimes (usually when i used the heel of the blade and a firm grip), it would go to that full solid lockup. Sometimes it wouldnt.

ETA because i accidentally hit post...

When I used force on the tip of the knife to cut the hardwood, I never achieved full solid lockup.
So very puzzling. I believe lock geometry and tolerances are slightly off...
But honestly, what do I know? Haha.
 
Actually, another thought... I believe the new shouldered stop pins are hardened? Can anyone verify?
Second question is if the Inkosi stop pins are shouldered? And hardened?
Can anyone verify?
 
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