Sebenza Overrated?

[Gator97]

And you have yet to prove anything other than you are willing to now challenge people of opposing viewpoint face to face when you get home.

Technically, and practically he challenged one person who called him a liar. Other than that, he doesn't not have to prove anything, it's you who wants proof. And you could start by posting photos and caliper measurements of your sebbies, then to disprove Benchmade claims, you post another set of pix with BM and their caliper measurements.

 

[Brennanscott]

Wow, 37 posts in this thread, and not a single one even comes close to actually trying to offer anything to the discussion. Bravo. Don't bother responding, you're clearly a child, and I have no reason to continue trying to bring you up to adult conversations.

Wow, maybe you missed Spark's post. Anyway, thanks for teaching us nothing.

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

Wow, 37 posts in this thread, and not a single one even comes close to actually trying to offer anything to the discussion. Bravo.

Yes, this is true. I am still waiting for someone with enough balls to even begin to challenge my argument. So far they have all stuck to their hate and bad tempers. Disturbed human beings who resort to personal attacks when half witted comments don't work. Such happens with cowards who do nothing but put out filth and hateful rhetoric. Makes me sick to live in the same country as these few people.

 

[frontline29]

ATTENTION CHILDREN

Y'all need to simma down now. Cut out the insults immediately. If I see anything rude past this point, week long bans will be handed out.

:thumbup:

 

[Brennanscott]

Yes, this is true. I am still waiting for someone with enough balls to even begin to challenge my argument. So far they have all stuck to their hate and bad tempers. Disturbed human beings who resort to personal attacks when half witted comments don't work. Such happens with cowards who do nothing but put out filth and hateful rhetoric. Makes me sick to live in the same country as these few people.

Jiggy, what exactly do you want people to challenge you on? You stated that Sebenza's are over rated and not worth their asking price having never owned or handled one.

How can someone argue that? You have no basis of opinion. Enough said already.

 

[Medic1210]

So you resort to threatening now? Go read BM's site again and this time take your time to actually comprehend whats being said before you talk again. Yes your a liar because your claims of your $100 BM knives being on par with Sebenzas in quality is a lie. You're basically saying CRK is fraud for overcharging. You are saying Sal and Thomas W are lying and in it together to rip off honest customers. Did you really think I'd run away all scared just because you act like an e-thug. You lost all credibility.

I've not threatened anybody, just curious to see if they would say the same thing to me face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard. Secondly, I'm not a liar. I'm posting exactly what Benchmade claims, and thirdly, you're twisting my words and putting words in my mouth to try and prove your point. Nowhere have I said a $100 BM was on par to a Sebenza in Quality. I merely stated that Benchmades are manufactured on machinery just like CRK that gives tolerances of 0.0005" which has already been covered a few posts back. I never stated or indicated I thought CRK is a fraud, and I never accused Sal or Thomas of lying like you're doing to me. You've proven you let your emotions affect your participation in a debate, so until you calm down and stop calling names and twisting words, don't bother responding to me.

 

[kawr]

Technically, and practically he challenged one person who called him a liar. Other than that, he doesn't not have to prove anything, it's you who wants proof. And you could start by posting photos and caliper measurements of your sebbies, then to disprove Benchmade claims, you post another set of pix with BM and their caliper measurements.

Go do a search in CRK forums, proof is already out there with pics and all.

 

[frontline29]

Go do a search in CRK forums, proof is already out there with pics and all.

"Absolute Proof (Sebenza Fit and Finish)"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807347

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I know nothing about any of those think you mentioned. However I do know the price of some very nice spyderco and BM knives with the same and materials and some being with better steels at less then half the price of a Sebenza. No one can seem to explain this to me. All I get is hate. If you are suggesting by posting FACTS about the materials used vs the price of the knives that I am discrediting a knife you are sadly mistaken. Could you do me a favor and educate me?

i am not sad about anything. you have in fact spent the last several pages attempting to discredit the knife.

to which spydercos and benchmades are you referring?

what kind of facts would you like? you have already ignored statements made by thomas (in this thread) and sal (not in this thread). your opinion has been predetermined.

but anyway:
-crk encourages you to disassemble your knife to care for it. they even include the hex key. with many other companies this will void your warranty (and who could blame them, really?).
-heat treated lock face. who else does that?
-blade to handle ratio is better than any knife i have ever owned or seen.
-hold their value as well or better than almost every other knife.
-each knife is hand fitted.
-best clip design, pretty much ever.
-pivot bushing. the pivot is tightened all the way, the bushing prevents the scales from pinching the blade. try this with your folders and the blade wont move at all.
-screws are interchangeable (except clip screw) and use the same size hex key. all my other folders have at least two different sized screw heads, some have three.

not everything is simply the sum of its parts. i find the sebenza to be simple and elegant, strong and durable. it is the pinnacle in the exercise of design and execution.

 

[Gator97]

So you resort to threatening now?

No he was not, he told you if U'd be so bold to call him a liar face to face

...your claims of your $100 BM knives being on par with Sebenzas in quality is a lie. You're basically saying CRK is fraud for overcharging. You are saying Sal and Thomas W are lying and in it together to rip off honest customers.... You lost all credibility.

Actually misrepresenting his words, and accusing him of things he never said damages your credibility. He never said any of that, you're insinuating and making things up to prove you were right with your insults.

 

[kawr]

I've not threatened anybody, just curious to see if they would say the same thing to me face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard. Secondly, I'm not a liar. I'm posting exactly what Benchmade claims, and thirdly, you're twisting my words and putting words in my mouth to try and prove your point. Nowhere have I said a $100 BM was on par to a Sebenza in Quality. I merely stated that Benchmades are manufactured on machinery just like CRK that gives tolerances of 0.0005" which has already been covered a few posts back. I never stated or indicated I thought CRK is a fraud, and I never accused Sal or Thomas of lying like you're doing to me. You've proven you let your emotions affect your participation in a debate, so until you calm down and stop calling names and twisting words, don't bother responding to me.

Thats CLEARLY not what you said. Way to flip flop. Yes I believe BM is capable of producing 0.0005'' tolerances which is probably evident in their gold class. You clearly state your average $150 BM has it.

Interesting, 'cause my $150 Benchmade has 0.0005" tolerances, and I've never once had an issue with their customer service. They'll even sharpen my knife for free, as often as I want to send it in to them (not that I use that service, but it's there for those who don't know how to sharpen their knives). How much does CRK charge to resharpen a knife??

You're lying again. I rest my case. I'm done with you since you clearly have zero credibility.

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

Jiggy, what exactly do you want people to challenge you on? You stated that Sebenza's are over rated and not worth their asking price having never owned or handled one.

How can someone argue that? You have no basis of opinion. Enough said already.

*sigh....I'll try this once more. You can get a very nice Spyderco or benchmade for less then half the price of the sebenzas. These BM and spydercos use virtually the same materials as a sebenza some even use a better steel. They both have very good ff, lockup, tolerances, no blade play, etc. So what makes the Sebenza worth more. It will be a few days before bm responds to the tolerance question. However besides that I think the bm and spydercos are very tight knives and I don't see the .0005 making much a difference seeing as they are already damn near vault like. What is your opinion on this?

 

[kawr]

*sigh....I'll try this once more. You can get a very nice Spyderco or benchmade for less then half the price of the sebenzas. These BM and spydercos use virtually the same materials as a sebenza some even use a better steel. They both have very good ff, lockup, tolerances, no blade play, etc. So what makes the Sebenza worth more. It will be a few days before bm responds to the tolerance question. However besides that I think the bm and spydercos are very tight knives and I don't see the .0005 making much a difference seeing as they are already damn near vault like. What is your opinion on this?

Just because you cant tell the differance in tolerances doesnt mean its not there. I basically directly quoted Sal Glesser on that.

 

[giant1]

Yes, this is true. I am still waiting for someone with enough balls to even begin to challenge my argument. So far they have all stuck to their hate and bad tempers. Disturbed human beings who resort to personal attacks when half witted comments don't work. Such happens with cowards who do nothing but put out filth and hateful rhetoric. Makes me sick to live in the same country as these few people.

I've been reading this thread with great amusement. You keep talking like you have made a great case but sadly for you the only person who is convinced of this is YOU!!.

If you really believe that the sebenza is over rated don't buy one. Stick to the cheaper knives and be happy. It's OK!!

 

[338375]

We get that a lot in General.

The fact that people will argue, or debate an issue with those that are making and selling the knives, really proves a lack of intelligence. They are looking more to argue than discuss knives IMO.

This thread has gotten so far off track, it really does belong in W&C.

 

[Noctis3880]

Did somebody mention Benchmade? This thread is moving up too fast for me to read each individual post, but I felt like commenting on that. Benchmade knives are a nice design and would have the most consistently smooth opening on the knives with their Axis locks. The only thing is, I can typically move the blade to the side enough to hit the handles, and there never seems to be a "sweet spot" to adjust to which avoids that.

I think the thing I like best about the Sebenza is the bushing system in which you tighten the pivot up nice and snug, and you don't have to worry about tweaking it to hit that sweet spot.

I'll just repeat what others have said and say that when your competitors are praising you, you must be doing something right.

As far as the steel goes, I believe CRK knows that performance is something most other companies are already deep into, and that it isn't the best selling point of the Sebenza, so they haven't jumped onto the bandwagon of new steels like everyone else.

 

[338375]

*sigh....I'll try this once more. You can get a very nice Spyderco or benchmade for less then half the price of the sebenzas. These BM and spydercos use virtually the same materials as a sebenza some even use a better steel. They both have very good ff, lockup, tolerances, no blade play, etc. So what makes the Sebenza worth more. It will be a few days before bm responds to the tolerance question. However besides that I think the bm and spydercos are very tight knives and I don't see the .0005 making much a difference seeing as they are already damn near vault like. What is your opinion on this?

I understand what you are saying about the tolerances. I for one, and probably most people unless they are a machinist, could never tell the difference between .0005 and .0007 without the use of precision tools.

Is it critical in a knife? No, I don't think it is. Is it a bad thing ? Absolutely not.

I stated in my earlier post that I have never owned a Sebenza, but had given them a close look see at a local shop to see what they were all about...
I probably spent about 20 minutes fondling a couple of them. I really wanted to get excited about it, after reading all the glowing reviews, but it just didn't get me excited.... Maybe if I went back now and looked again, something would click, maybe not.
I could tell when I opened one up though, and felt and heard the locking, this wasn't your average production knife...

I guess its like watches. I have worn Timex watches for years, and they are very durable. I bought a new Timex diver watch about 2 years ago, and at a quick glance, it looks like a Rolex Sub Mariner.
Is there a need to spend another couple thousand more for a Rolex, than I paid for my Timex ? No.....
There are a lot of people that appreciate the differences between the two though, and for them the extra spent is well worth it.

 

[effer]

If one will only think about the knife as a simple tool, then I would say Sebenza is definitely not the best in price/performance line up. As a matter of fact I also think that most offerings from premium brands could be also considered overrated and overpriced.
As far as tolerances, if one cannot feel or see the difference, does it really matter? As technology evolves those tolerances are (or will be) easier to achieve and at lower cost. For example certain chinese manufacturer now produces knives with fit and finish better than some lower-end offerings from us/european brands that cost 3-5 times as much. Production evolves.
Still I would say that Sebenza is the best knife I've handled so far in terms of fit and finish when compared to Benchmades, Spydercos, Kershaws etc. I think it is mostly in attention to details and excellent quality control rather than simply CNC tolerances.

Rating of the knife as an art, collectible, man's jewelry is very subjective like judging other similar items. Is Rolex overrated? Will I write faster using a premium $2000 pen? Is Malavich's "Black Square" really worth 1 million dollars? Will I get my satisfaction, if I paint that square myself and hang it up instead of that overpriced piece?

What's the point of trying to convince somebody one way or the other when the question is so subjective?

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

i am not sad about anything. you have in fact spent the last several pages attempting to discredit the knife.

to which spydercos and benchmades are you referring?

what kind of facts would you like? you have already ignored statements made by thomas (in this thread) and sal (not in this thread). your opinion has been predetermined.

but anyway:
-crk encourages you to disassemble your knife to care for it. they even include the hex key. with many other companies this will void your warranty (and who could blame them, really?).
-heat treated lock face. who else does that?
-blade to handle ratio is better than any knife i have ever owned or seen.
-hold their value as well or better than almost every other knife.
-each knife is hand fitted.
-best clip design, pretty much ever.
-pivot bushing. the pivot is tightened all the way, the bushing prevents the scales from pinching the blade. try this with your folders and the blade wont move at all.
-screws are interchangeable (except clip screw) and use the same size hex key. all my other folders have at least two different sized screw heads, some have three.

not everything is simply the sum of its parts. i find the sebenza to be simple and elegant, strong and durable. it is the pinnacle in the exercise of design and execution.

Once again I have said nothing to discredit this knife. I have given realistic material and price comparisons to other knives just as nice as a seb. Any benchmade or spyderco in the range of 100-200 can have the same parts as a sebenza and in some cases, better blade steel. Thank you for your comments.

Just because you cant tell the differance in tolerances doesnt mean its not there. I basically directly quoted Sal Glesser on that.

That's kinda what I mean. If you can't tell the difference then why does it matter or if they didn't tell you it was .0005 then you wouldn't know.

I've been reading this thread with great amusement. You keep talking like you have made a great case but sadly for you the only person who is convinced of this is YOU!!.

If you really believe that the sebenza is over rated don't buy one. Stick to the cheaper knives and be happy. It's OK!!

I believe I have made a pretty good case in which no one has tried to challenge but instead throw hate speech. I wouldn't say over rated I would say over priced. I will stick to my "cheap" 1-200 dollar knives.

 

[Medic1210]

Thats CLEARLY not what you said. Way to flip flop. Yes I believe BM is capable of producing 0.0005'' tolerances which is probably evident in their gold class. You clearly state your average $150 BM has it.



You're lying again. I rest my case. I'm done with you since you clearly have zero credibility.

First off, math 101... $150 > $100. Secondly, since when is stating that my Benchmade is manufactured to 0.0005 tolerances and never having an issue with their customer service equal to saying their quality was the same. I was merely pointing out Benchmade's claim, which you refuse to accept, of their manufacturing tolerances, which I should point out, is mentioned almost verbatim in both quotes you highlighted bold. So, what's that about credibility? You've proven absolutely nothing except you resort to twisting and misrepresenting words as well as name calling in lieu of civilized discussion.