sebenza's being outmatched for the value

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Pretty bold, "sebenza's being outmatched for the value", with your first statement being... I've never handled one.... just saying
 
never handled a seb? you shouldn't to my experience even open you mouth, just a suggestion
handle one and then judge

have 4 crk's myself and use them, have handled 4-5 XM at least, none cut like a crk one had to be reground to cut, harder to disengage, some had sticky locks

thick, tactical, heavy thick geometry, are things I don't look in a folder, ability to cut, simple design and finish are something I prefer

I'm not a newb nor I get flashed by hypes, got to CRK level after many many years, to understand them you need to use many, to handle even more,experience, knowledge,a good judgind eye and a long walk on the knives path..., at the end (if) you get one to understand and if you're mature enough you understand and appreciate them
2 cents
Maxx
 
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Honestly, can you expect to be taken seriously when you make statements like this, based on complete lack of any basis for the statement?

Jonsa said:
Never held a sebie, but from handling hinderer's xm-18's, I can't see how the sebenza can be the same price as the xm-18. You get way more for your buck with the xm from the spanto blade grind which isn't quick and easy, a better all aroud frame lock, a g10 scale for grip, awsome ergonomics and cutouts on handle (a ton of machining time on this knife), and will take twice the abuse. Is the sebenzas price still how it is because its been around since the 80's and has had no competition. I think they have met their match with the hinderer which for retail i think is underpriced, you do not have to worry about this knife no matter what you do, rick recommends you to wail the fipper open and use this knife and he will back it up. All I hear when people defend the sebenza is its fit and finish and tight tolerances which the xm-18 has covered, and if you want a slicer rick has that covered to but with a more solid package. Will there be a price decrease in the sebenza or is it granfathered in. Chris reeve seems to be very defensive on a lot of matters also, but Rick doesn't need to be. Is it to the point where people feel like the sebenza is a great knife because of what they paid, so they pretty look for anything positive to make them feel good about their investment. I think rick supplying soldiers, emt's etc. first and foremost makes it for him not about the money also, this might also be a factor. I think some knife makers might just take advantage of their knives being available, Strider is also in this catagory in my opinion. This is just my opinion.
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Uhmm, one more Sebenza vs. anything thread, always fun :) Sadly, never owned XM folder, cant' comment on that.

However, Sebenza, especially in its current incarnation, S30V or S35VN on softish side is hardly a standard for folders either. Sure, build precision is impressive, but at that price I want more than just precisely fit parts. Specifically, good cutting performance and edge holding which is better than average. In other words, price/performance ratio on Sebenza is pretty bad.
15 per side edge is not exactly the best cutting performance edge, it looks good only compared to thick factory edges, and grinding thinner edge than that on 58-59HEC steel isn't gonna hold very long.

Mad_Maxx said:
I'm not a newb nor I get flashed by hypes, got to CRK level after many many years, to understand them you need to use many, to handle even more,experience, knowledge,a good judgind eye and a long walk on the knives path..., at the end (if) you get one to understand and if you're mature enough you understand and appreciate them
2 cents
Maxx
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Max, with all due respect, it's a folding knife, nothing mystical or mythical about it. There is no "CRK level" to reach, and based on your post, I think you did get caught in the hype and bought 4 of them.
 
Guys, do what you want but my suggestion is don't get drawn into this thread. Clearly an attention grab.
I don't know about you but I prefer to not have strings attached to my arms and legs;)
The argument ended at, " I've never handled the knife....."
 
How come the A.G. Russell Acies never gets mentioned in these comparisons? Seems to me if you were looking for a Sebbie beater, that's the one. apples to apples- except for getting ZDP instead of soft S30V- and for less $$.

Anyone?
 
This is a no brainer.... everybody knows a Hnderer is better. But not until you hold a sebenza can you make a post about comparisons.
 
Gator97 said:
Uhmm, one more Sebenza vs. anything thread, always fun :) Sadly, never owned XM folder, cant' comment on that.

However, Sebenza, especially in its current incarnation, S30V or S35VN on softish side is hardly a standard for folders either. Sure, build precision is impressive, but at that price I want more than just precisely fit parts. Specifically, good cutting performance and edge holding which is better than average. In other words, price/performance ratio on Sebenza is pretty bad.
15 per side edge is not exactly the best cutting performance edge, it looks good only compared to thick factory edges, and grinding thinner edge than that on 58-59HEC steel isn't gonna hold very long.


Max, with all due respect, it's a folding knife, nothing mystical or mythical about it. There is no "CRK level" to reach, and based on your post, I think you did get caught in the hype and bought 4 of them.
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Good post. I would agree that not all knife roads end in CRK country. Different strokes for different folks. No magic, just common sense.
 
Oh yeah? Well, I’ve never handled a Sebenza or a Hinderer so perhaps I’m doubly qualified to comment on this thread… :rolleyes:

My Ontario RAT-1 is a better ‘value’ than either… :p

But I just don’t know if ‘value’ can be measured solely on the dollars you ‘save’ by opting for a cheaper alternative. When you factor in things like warranty, reputation (QC falls under this heading, imo,) and re-sale potential, then perhaps you may consider the extra cost justified and with far less risk involved. However similar, well-built, or cheaper an alternative may be, it will never be a CRK, Hinderer, Strider, William Henry... or whatever. If you wanna see the show, you gotta buy the ticket--I think many Forum members do just that.
 
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colubrid said:
This is a no brainer.... everybody knows a Hnderer is better. But not until you hold a sebenza can you make a post about comparisons.
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Everybody does? No brainer? Actually you're correct about the no brain part to come to such a conclusion.
 
Alright, dear CRK fans, do not take comments/remarks on Sebenza not being the best in the world as personal insults (and respond with the same)...
 
Both knives are Very very Fine creations. The makers are to be recognized for their individual achievements and members of both camps "feelings" regarding their chosen favorites are to be respected.
This thread is pointless and less than worthless, Why? Because it pits people who are members of a Larger group (Lovers of fine knives) against each other for absolutely no reason other than elevating the OP to an unearned position, that of Puppet Master. "Oh look what I can do with a few keystrokes, aren't I powerful".
These are Both Great Knives - one would be fortunate to own offerings from BOTH. They are so dissimilar as to NOT interfere with each other in either Form or Function AND can easily occupy positions of honor in ANY collection.
Much like fans of both knives Coexisting in one forum.
 
Jonsa said:
the gen. 4 xm-18 models resolved the softer blade detent problems., the main idea of the weaker detent was it is easier to fold out under pressure or with gloves, this was not a design flaw but for a purpose.
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If this was done for a purpose, why is it being resolved?

Jonsa said:
The time put into machining the handle with all the contours and jimping is a lot more than on the sebbie.
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This isn't done by hand. It's merely a matter of inputing the design and letting the CNC do the work.

Jonsa said:
Then on top of the titanium you get the g10 scale for added grip and comfort in different temps and weather, and g10 just as tough as steel to machine tool wear wise. So I still feel I am overpaying for the sebenza now a days. I believe the sebenza could still be the perect folding knife but at a lower price point.
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To compare the prices of each fairly, an additional $200.00 has to be added to the Hinderer XMs. While Sebenzas have a full titanium frame standard, XMs do not. This being the case, Sebenzas are already at a lower price point.
 
Buck_110 said:
If this was done for a purpose, why is it being resolved?
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Strange question, It was done on purpose because at a time it seemed to be a correct solution, turned out to be wrong and it was resolved. Never happened to you? You always get everything right and never go back fixing/revisiting things?
 
Gator97 said:
Alright, dear CRK fans, do not take comments/remarks on Sebenza not being the best in the world as personal insults (and respond with the same)...
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You're right Gator - we're discussing two mid-tech knives that are the pinnacle of their niches. Nothing to get upset about Hinderers are my fix. I've owned several Sebenzas but a good Spydero will do anything a Sebbie will do for a fraction of the price. They are slassy medium duty folders IMO. Hinderer XMs are most decidedly in the hard use realm. What's not to understand? :)

BTW, the M-18 & 24 have ti on both sides - just have an overlay of g-10 or optional ti to afford grip which goes with the theme of the build. I've buried my XM-18 into thich cardboard and foam cushions as hard as I can. Something I'd be leery of trying with a Sebenza. A Sebenza is a good EDC, so is a Spyderco Endura or a Sage 2.if you need that ti "fix" on both sides. :cool:
 
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I used a XM-18 Hinderer I got in a pass around, did a review, and did not like the drop in the handle at all. It was made very well though, and great for push cuts.
In all my years as a butcher and game processor I mostly cut away from myself, and try to cut that way when possible.

A straight handle, such as the sebenza handle is much better for this type of cut.

Anyway, who cares, differant strokes for differant folks. They are both great knives. Just depends on what you're wanting in a knife.
 
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