ShepardCustomConcealment

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ShepardCC said:
Again you are taking this subject out of context and making it about paypal and not about what it's really about. No disrespect but let's keep this on subject.
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With all due respect Mr. Shepard, I strenuously object! This thread IS about PayPal, ethics, & how their SERVICES, are intended to be used. For if it weren't YOUR insistence over using THEIR gift only option, in a self-serving manner (selling Goods), this thread, most likely...??? Pontificate all you want.

If you're not comfortable with using their services under the agreement that you accepted to use it for, you can always use Money Orders, or personal checks.

If someone wants to give you their money, that's their prerogative.
 
I made a mistake and forgot to put in the prefered payment methods. I went back and corrected that. But to assume that just because I put up a knife for sale with a price doesn't mean I automatically take accept and offer paypal. Nowhere anywhere in our forums does it say that paypal is the number one and only acceptable form of payment. So he assumed. My first, very first message was what I accept as payment. He didn't like those options. Great. Don't buy. I didn't lie or scam or try to do anything unethical in any way shape or form. I offered he could pay by check or money order as well. So those forms of payment are unethical too!?!???????
 
ShepardCC said:
I made a mistake and forgot to put in the prefered payment methods. I went back and corrected that. But to assume that just because I put up a knife for sale with a price doesn't mean I automatically take accept and offer paypal. Nowhere anywhere in our forums does it say that paypal is the number one and only acceptable form of payment. So he assumed. My first, very first message was what I accept as payment. He didn't like those options. Great. Don't buy. I didn't lie or scam or try to do anything unethical in any way shape or form. I offered he could pay by check or money order as well. So those forms of payment are unethical too!?!???????
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Check, Money Order and even Paypal are ethical forms of payment provided that the member is using those services in agreement with the entities stated procedures and policies. Circumventing those stated policies for personal gain, for whatever excuse is given, is unethical...aside from being criminal behavior.
 
I did nothing unethical of any sort. I offered 3 ways to pay he declined all three. It was his way of paying or no way of paying and since I decided not to let him pay his way I'm on unethical and I'm a liar and a thief according to his accusations. This is complete and utter ridiculousness. I am NOT going to stand for it and I'm not going to sit here and continue on with this blatantly idiotic discussion. I am NOT a liar. I've never been a liar. I am NOT a thief. I've never been a thief. And I cannot possibly steal my own property. So for him to say I'm a thief and I stole from him is absolutely ludicrous. The fact of the matter that you're agreeing with him and you're one of the moderators here is even more ludicrous
 
I think it's time everyone let this one go and move on with life. Everyone can conduct themselves in a manner that they see fit. If others don't agree with that, then they don't have to deal with each other. In my dealings with Eric, he has been up front about payment right from the start. The product he provided me was exactly what we agreed upon. Personally, I will have no issues in dealing with Eric in the future.
 
ShepardCC said:
I did nothing unethical of any sort. I offered 3 ways to pay he declined all three. It was his way of paying or no way of paying and since I decided not to let him pay his way I'm on unethical and I'm a liar and a thief according to his accusations. This is complete and utter ridiculousness. I am NOT going to stand for it and I'm not going to sit here and continue on with this blatantly idiotic discussion. I am NOT a liar. I've never been a liar. I am NOT a thief. I've never been a thief. And I cannot possibly steal my own property. So for him to say I'm a thief and I stole from him is absolutely ludicrous. The fact of the matter that you're agreeing with him and you're one of the moderators here is even more ludicrous
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You offered the buyer 3 ways of paying.....your way or no way.....
He didn't want to be an accomplice, so he declined the "gift" payment.
It isn't the buyers business practices that is causing the problem.
 
Karda said:
You offered the buyer 3 ways of paying.....your way or no way.....
He didn't want to be an accomplice, so he declined the "gift" payment.
It isn't the buyers business practices that is causing the problem.
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And yet somehow he still wasn't forced to purchase anything so what is he still complaining about?
 
Seller my be a good guy overall, but we have ALL agreed that using goods paypal is the way to go. Also, that using gift is in fact ripping off paypal.....despite what we think of them. In some ways this has all gone to hay, but double standards are not fair.
 
Again you are making this about PayPal and not about his accusations. He said I was a liar. He said I was a thief. I am neither of those two things and again I am done dealing with this. I offered my 3 accepted ways of payment. He didn't like those ways. Great. This should be done and over. But To then get mad and start lying, saying I'm a liar and a thief is Way out of line. I don't know how many times this needs to be said. It's my property and it's my choice to sell to whomever I want with whatever payment I want. If I want to be paid with dog treats then I want dog treats. Money was created so that the trading of things could be made easier. Just like in the trading forum if you want to trade one knife for another, you have to come to an agreement that both parties are satisfied with before the deal and the trade are done. I was not satisfied with way he wanted to pay and he was not satisfied with the way that I wanted to be paid. He didnt accept my terms and tried to force me to accept his terms. No trade. No trade of money for knife. End of story. Deal doesn't get done. But to come on here and start calling me a liar and a thief of my own property and then you condoning it is absolutely ludicrous.
 
Bottom line is the seller makes the rules, not the buyer. If the buyer didn't like it he should have just moved along, end of story. The seller can sell to he/she chooses, period.
 
Perfect comment
"And yet somehow he still wasn't forced to purchase anything so what is he still complaining about?"

Scrim..You dont like the seller..Move to another..you dont like their business practice move on.
You dont like my opinions of your going on and on and on and on..
Get over it......
Let it go.. You bet this..You and I will never do business. Simply due to this post and how you simply
can not accept what has transpired.
This is about enjoying this passion and this hobby and most of all this community
I get the paypal point.. But as we all know...

IF YOU DONT like the sellers terms and or if they choose to deal with you or not..
Find another seller or simply get over it already.........
Your point has been made..Kardas point and Kelamas points regarding PP
has been noted..

I have my opinion as you do yours..You continue to bash Eric and I have my rebuttal
The problem is you dont like my rebuttal..So you feel the need to single me out.
Its all good Scrim.. Others can make their comments but you personalize mine???
It is to each his/her own..If you opt not to pay the 3 choices.
Move along.

This is becoming a merry go round of your pointing out the same thing over and over
and calling someone a liar..
Your point has been made.

Time to leave this one alone..
I wish both well with a resolution..
 
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ShepardCC said:
Again you are making this about PayPal and not about his accusations. He said I was a liar. He said I was a thief. I am neither of those two things and again I am done dealing with this. I offered my 3 accepted ways of payment. He didn't like those ways. Great. This should be done and over. But To then get mad and start lying, saying I'm a liar and a thief is Way out of line. I don't know how many times this needs to be said. It's my property and it's my choice to sell to whomever I want with whatever payment I want. If I want to be paid with dog treats then I want dog treats. Money was created so that the trading of things could be made easier. Just like in the trading forum if you want to trade one knife for another, you have to come to an agreement that both parties are satisfied with before the deal and the trade are done. I was not satisfied with way he wanted to pay and he was not satisfied with the way that I wanted to be paid. He didnt accept my terms and tried to force me to accept his terms. No trade. No trade of money for knife. End of story. Deal doesn't get done. But to come on here and start calling me a liar and a thief of my own property and then you condoning it is absolutely ludicrous.
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It is about Paypal.
It's about you wanting payment for goods/services by the gift option against paypals own clearly stated and pretty well known business policies. It's about this buyer and potentially more/future buyers having an issue with being an accomplice and having these type of terms not being stated clearly up front and being sprung on them after the fact..... exactly like this due to these business practices. This buyer didn't actually call you a liar and a thief....he called you a liar and a scammer and you replied by calling him a bully and a child.
 
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It's over a kizer Knife I have for sale for $115. All this fuse. It's stupid

I was willing and offering many different ways to pay. However when he starting to bully and threaten I said I don't want to do business with you. Then he came on here to try to call me a liar a thief and an unethical person of my own property for refusing to sell to him.
 
One final thought: every single paid member/Dealer here, takes a calculated risk every single time that they complete a transaction over the internet.

My risks, are just as great as the next guy (unless provided I'm dealing with one of the reputable member's here whom I've dealt with previously). Even then, there are so many intangibles that can occur during the transit of the package. With that said, the logic of only selling via the PayPal Gift option, is ridiculous, offensive & a gross insult to the prospective buyer.

It would be great, if PayPal had a customer service representative here, so they could witness first hand how their services are being used. I have a very strong feeling, that if Mr. Shepard, were to call PayPal C.S. & discuss with them the manner in which he is using their services; he wouldn't be given the PRIVLEDGE to use their service any longer.
 
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One question of Shepherd - PayPal is a business that makes its money through, among other things, payment of fees by those who use its services pursuant to its terms of service. One of the terms you agreed to is that you would not accept personal payments (the technical term for gift, friends and family...) in exchange for goods or services. How do you rationalize violating your agreement by not only accepting personal payments but requiring them?
 
While I don't agree with the fervor Scrim went at this issue with, I side with him on the Paypal thing. As simple post stating the facts would have sufficed. If it makes you that mad, send an email to Paypal about Shepard's practices.

While I believe Shepard is an overall honest guy, he needs to realize that his current Paypal practice of doing business under the "gift/friends" option is illegal.

It really is that cut and dry. Not much different than not claiming income on your taxes. Though, it seems to have become an "acceptable" crime(like eating grapes in the produce dept. at the grocery store) it is actually much worse and more damaging to the folks who appreciate the service. Shepard, I urge you to remove the Paypal stipulation from your sales threads. What you do in emails is your own business but engaging in illegal activities on an open/public forum is risky business. Furthermore, claims that Paypal does not offer seller protection are unfounded. You need to adhere to the user agreement and policy to be eligible for protection. 99.9% of the "Paypal Screwed Me" threads are the direct fault of the SELLER for not following protocol.
 
KELAMA said:
WThis thread IS about PayPal, ethics, & how their SERVICES, are intended to be used. For if it weren't YOUR insistence over using THEIR gift only option, in a self-serving manner (selling Goods), this thread, most likely...??? Pontificate all you want.
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PayPal is but an aspect of this thread. This thread is actually about ShepardCC. So says the title.

Let's exclude the ethics of PayPal GIFT for a moment.

Scrim called him a liar and a scammer in his very first sentence of his first post in the thread. Those accusations are what the last few pages are about IMO and he has yet to prove either.

From the screen shots shown, it looks like ShepardCC posted a sales thread and completely omitted the forms of payment accepted. It only said to email or PM him. Scrim said "I'll take it" in the thread and sent a PM requesting PayPal info to pay. ShepardCC replied with the info and said that he only accepts PayPal GIFT. Scrim does not use GIFT and was unhappy that it was not specified in the thread and expected to honor the original sale by paying through GOODs. Reasons were then given by both parties for their preferred method of payment. A brick wall was hit regarding PayPal and Shepard offered to pay by check or money order.

And that is where the public PM conversation ends.

Payment methods were not mentioned in the original sales thread and added later to notify other potential buyers. PayPal was assumed and when it was not agreed upon other methods to pay were offered. They were then declined. I see no lie and no scam in this scenario.

The lie that Scrim accused and has yet to prove is that Shepard said that payment methods were in the original post and not added later. Where's that PM?
Did I miss any other lies allegedly told?

Just to be clear, I 100% disagree with the use of PayPal GIFT when paying for GOODS.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
Just to be clear, I 100% disagree with the use of PayPal GIFT when paying for GOODS.
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I agree, it is nice to be able to use PayPal as intended. I have purchased many items via F&F. What I do not agree with is singling out one person for using the F&F option in PayPal. If, as a community, we want to stop this practice it has to be for EVERYONE, not just one person. It seems that in every second sale thread I look at, the person is asking for F&F. If we don't want this, the practice has to be specifically mentioned in the rules of the forum. Once that is done, the debate is over for good.
 
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