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Some observations and unsolicited advice
- Thread starter Will Leavitt
- Start date
Technically if you're selling them to friends or family you're selling them to customers, so I think what you meant is that you wouldn't sell knives if you wouldn't sell them.
Regardless, the reason I only sell to family and friends is not because I am doing shoddy work, it's because I don't expect someone I don't know to trust me when I tell them that I've done the work right. If I was better established (had paid my dues) then I would expect a stranger to trust me more when I tell them a price that I want for a knife of mine.
Jim Adams Customs
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Sean It hard to let go of a knife. I hope you love Sushi. Make a good knife.
They are like your children. They will not fail you. Your knife will outlast the chef and his great great grandkids will be using it.
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If only making good children were as *easy* as making good knives....
Well, I guess the making part isn't so bad, it's the raising part that has some bumps.
--nathan
Well, I guess the making part isn't so bad, it's the raising part that has some bumps.
--nathan
Jim Adams Customs
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I know you probably make incredible knives. Your customers will become your friends. A customer is never stranger. When you go to show they will seek you out. They will want to see what you are up to. I know all the names of my customers. They are my friends first that just own one of my knives.
OK point taken. I only sell knives to my friends. Do you mind if I add that to my logo.
Jim Adams Customs
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If only making good children were as *easy* as making good knives....
Well, I guess the making part isn't so bad, it's the raising part that has some bumps.
--nathan
So true. But isn't it illegal to throw them in the junk blade drawer.
Jim Adams Customs
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Night guys. I guess I have learned many lessons from from people are not in my trade or new to it. I am never closed to ideas. I listen to everyone.
I had a lesson early on when i first start out as a machinist. i was have awful time chatter or noise on pieces i was parting or cutting off in a lathe. the young gentleman that was sweeping the shop, said "Jim try slowing it down". The janitor was giving me advise. Well he was right.
I always remember that lesson.
I had a lesson early on when i first start out as a machinist. i was have awful time chatter or noise on pieces i was parting or cutting off in a lathe. the young gentleman that was sweeping the shop, said "Jim try slowing it down". The janitor was giving me advise. Well he was right.
I always remember that lesson.
I've only been at this 10 tears.er...I mean years, a drop in the bucket compared to the guys I look up to.
I feel I owe it to my customer to give them my very best..and then follow up with my very best. I feel , at times, a little ashamed at the knives I fist sold to customers because of the quality I was making at the time.
I thank them for taking a chance on me and buying something from an unknown.
I guess I'm saying if I don't feel it's not the best I can do--it never leaves my shop, because I'll constantly worry about it reflecting on me in the future,I'm in this for the long haul.
I've herd it can take 10 years or longer to build a good reputation, and 10min to ruin one... something to think about
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I have a whole box full of half finished knives. Each and every one was made to the very best of my abilities when I started them but by the time they were finished or almost finished anyway I had learned enough that I thought it best to start over rather than try to fix all the things I learned how to do better since I started it. That's one of the problems with sending blades out for heat treat. By the time it gets back I'd have ground out five more and the old ones weren't good enough anymore.
I guess I just don't see how anyone could sell something that wasn't the very best they could do. There is a big difference between a rough finished knife and a poorly finished knife. I think a lot of new guys miss that point.
I think just about everyone that's been at this for any length of time is a little embarrassed about the first couple of knives sold. If you're not then you probably either were born with an ungodly amount of natural talent or you haven't learned much in the meantime.
Just because you put time and effort into something does not mean that thing has any real value. I could spend 80 hours making a blade out of an old bed frame with a dull file and I can guarantee that it wouldn't be worth a fraction of one I ground out in twenty minutes from barstock. We're not in kindergarten anymore and you don't get an A for effort in real life. And just because someone buys something doesn't mean they won't regret it later, like when a friend points out that they paid too much money for crap. My biggest fear in selling my knives has always been that someone would hate it or think it wasn't worth the price but be too embarrassed to call me up and ask for their money back.
Knife collectors have to start somewhere too. They don't just magically have the skill to separate the good knives from the bad. That is a skill that must be learned. It only takes one bad knife to turn a potential collector away from the custom knife industry. We as makers owe it to not just the customers but to all of the other custom makers out there to give every customer fair value for their money.
I don't see it as being so much of a problem at knife shows and such where the customer can actually see and hold the knife and meet the maker face to face before shelling out cash. Online however it is a whole different story. You can only tell so much from a picture. The typical low quality picture only makes matters worse. Knives are a 3d object and a lot of that third dimension is really hard to capture on film. The guy buying a knife can't tell from a photo that the handle is perfectly round or square and clunky like a brick. This works both ways. The guy that made the knife can't tell that all the knives he's seen in the magazines aren't either. If he hasn't got out and handled a lot of well made knives it's almost impossible to get it all right from pictures alone. As far as he can tell his knives are just as good as the other guys so why shouldn't he charge what they do or close to it. Except for the part about getting paid this was me when I was new. James Rodebaugh was kind enough to thump me on the head and tell me that knife handles work a lot better if they aren't perfectly round. I'd been looking at pictures in magazines for years but had never picked up a custom knife other than my own and I had no idea. He also gently pointed out a bunch of other ways I could improve my design. It was a hard pill to swallow but one of the most informative critiques I've yet had.
All of this is part of paying your dues. Knifemaking is a journey with no end but there are some important lessons to learn along the way. Trying to skip ahead rarely works out well in the long run.
I guess I just don't see how anyone could sell something that wasn't the very best they could do. There is a big difference between a rough finished knife and a poorly finished knife. I think a lot of new guys miss that point.
I think just about everyone that's been at this for any length of time is a little embarrassed about the first couple of knives sold. If you're not then you probably either were born with an ungodly amount of natural talent or you haven't learned much in the meantime.
Just because you put time and effort into something does not mean that thing has any real value. I could spend 80 hours making a blade out of an old bed frame with a dull file and I can guarantee that it wouldn't be worth a fraction of one I ground out in twenty minutes from barstock. We're not in kindergarten anymore and you don't get an A for effort in real life. And just because someone buys something doesn't mean they won't regret it later, like when a friend points out that they paid too much money for crap. My biggest fear in selling my knives has always been that someone would hate it or think it wasn't worth the price but be too embarrassed to call me up and ask for their money back.
Knife collectors have to start somewhere too. They don't just magically have the skill to separate the good knives from the bad. That is a skill that must be learned. It only takes one bad knife to turn a potential collector away from the custom knife industry. We as makers owe it to not just the customers but to all of the other custom makers out there to give every customer fair value for their money.
I don't see it as being so much of a problem at knife shows and such where the customer can actually see and hold the knife and meet the maker face to face before shelling out cash. Online however it is a whole different story. You can only tell so much from a picture. The typical low quality picture only makes matters worse. Knives are a 3d object and a lot of that third dimension is really hard to capture on film. The guy buying a knife can't tell from a photo that the handle is perfectly round or square and clunky like a brick. This works both ways. The guy that made the knife can't tell that all the knives he's seen in the magazines aren't either. If he hasn't got out and handled a lot of well made knives it's almost impossible to get it all right from pictures alone. As far as he can tell his knives are just as good as the other guys so why shouldn't he charge what they do or close to it. Except for the part about getting paid this was me when I was new. James Rodebaugh was kind enough to thump me on the head and tell me that knife handles work a lot better if they aren't perfectly round. I'd been looking at pictures in magazines for years but had never picked up a custom knife other than my own and I had no idea. He also gently pointed out a bunch of other ways I could improve my design. It was a hard pill to swallow but one of the most informative critiques I've yet had.
All of this is part of paying your dues. Knifemaking is a journey with no end but there are some important lessons to learn along the way. Trying to skip ahead rarely works out well in the long run.
Alright I'm a newbie, been lurking here since 2006, sold my first knife here less than a year ago. I read everything I could read, about how to make a good knife. I have sat and just looked at different makers knife photos here for hours, trying to see where I need to be, a clue as to how it is done. Thrown many would be blades out the door in frustration, but continued to try an improve.
I started out assembling knives from bought blanks about 5 years ago, I either gave them away or sold them for the cost of the materials, I only have so many friends and kin folk. I have always wanted to make a knife, I love knives, maybe I'm obsessed as my wife claims. Anyway blade blanks just were not doing it for me, I needed to make a knife.
I made my first dozen or so by hand with files,rasp, and sandpaper, I heat treated them to the best of my ability, I still have them all. Then I got a deal on a grinder, so I bought it and started with that. I bought a box of used Nicholson files from a mill that closed, must have been 250 files in it. It took two of us to load it, I still have some, but many were swept out the door.
Now there has been a lot of opinions here on quality. As I have become more skilled my standards have become more refined. Ignorance is a wonderful thing sometimes, the first time I finished a knife I thought it was a great job, knew it would cut, and do the job it was made for, now I look at it as junk, and wonder how I thought it was good.
I don't consider myself a knife maker even though that is what it says under my log in. Thats just the membership I purchased, I do want to become known as a knife maker somewhere along the way.
I definitely believe I have learned enough to sale some of my work to off set my cost of learning. I know what I would pay for a custom knife from a well known established maker and price my work accordingly, it's the only way I can afford to continue to make knives, and I hope that a couple hundred knives down the road I'll look at what I was making now and consider it passable but not up to my hopefully acheived standards if that makes sense. I know the knives I make now are good in quality, I just hope to continue an improve as I progress.
Anyway I have somehow made this post about myself when that was not my intention, I believe many makers have started off like me, and most have a blade or two in there closet somewhere to remind them of where there standards once were.
Another thing I believe to be true, no matter what skill level you are, Master or novice, you'll never make a perfect knife to your eyes.
One other thing, every knife I ever posted here for sale was made to the best of my ability at that time. I test every knife before it leaves here, I don't try to break them, but I go give them a work out. I back every knife I make with a 110% MBG, I value and appreciate every individual that gives me chance by trying one of my knives.
I started out assembling knives from bought blanks about 5 years ago, I either gave them away or sold them for the cost of the materials, I only have so many friends and kin folk. I have always wanted to make a knife, I love knives, maybe I'm obsessed as my wife claims. Anyway blade blanks just were not doing it for me, I needed to make a knife.
I made my first dozen or so by hand with files,rasp, and sandpaper, I heat treated them to the best of my ability, I still have them all. Then I got a deal on a grinder, so I bought it and started with that. I bought a box of used Nicholson files from a mill that closed, must have been 250 files in it. It took two of us to load it, I still have some, but many were swept out the door.
Now there has been a lot of opinions here on quality. As I have become more skilled my standards have become more refined. Ignorance is a wonderful thing sometimes, the first time I finished a knife I thought it was a great job, knew it would cut, and do the job it was made for, now I look at it as junk, and wonder how I thought it was good.
I don't consider myself a knife maker even though that is what it says under my log in. Thats just the membership I purchased, I do want to become known as a knife maker somewhere along the way.
I definitely believe I have learned enough to sale some of my work to off set my cost of learning. I know what I would pay for a custom knife from a well known established maker and price my work accordingly, it's the only way I can afford to continue to make knives, and I hope that a couple hundred knives down the road I'll look at what I was making now and consider it passable but not up to my hopefully acheived standards if that makes sense. I know the knives I make now are good in quality, I just hope to continue an improve as I progress.
Anyway I have somehow made this post about myself when that was not my intention, I believe many makers have started off like me, and most have a blade or two in there closet somewhere to remind them of where there standards once were.
Another thing I believe to be true, no matter what skill level you are, Master or novice, you'll never make a perfect knife to your eyes.
One other thing, every knife I ever posted here for sale was made to the best of my ability at that time. I test every knife before it leaves here, I don't try to break them, but I go give them a work out. I back every knife I make with a 110% MBG, I value and appreciate every individual that gives me chance by trying one of my knives.
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Jim Adams Customs
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When I was telling my wife about this, she said she sent the check for the dues. LOL
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I've drank a cup of coffee trying to figure out how to reply. This is the best I can do.
2-4-6-8 Who do we appreciate?
JIM
JIM
JIM
Yayyyy JIM!!!!!
You know, people (usually the newer makers) complain and cry about the arrogance of the older makers.....
I'm not even that good a knifemaker but I try to help people with what I've learned. Ya know some things and people aren't worth the time and energy, it takes a while but they'll show their true colors. That's why there's always new makers and a lot fewer old makers. Think about this; think about how many new people come on here every week asking how to start, compare this to the number of people that have been at it for over 5 years. Y'all are right when you said the market will deal with the people that don't put the work in.
I've made some great friends in this, I've met some good people. I work hard to honor the people that have taught me and to honor the craft. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur in my way of thinking. I probably need to just toss a bunch of @#$@# on the wall and see what people will buy.
2-4-6-8 Who do we appreciate?
JIM
JIM
JIM
Yayyyy JIM!!!!!
You know, people (usually the newer makers) complain and cry about the arrogance of the older makers.....
I'm not even that good a knifemaker but I try to help people with what I've learned. Ya know some things and people aren't worth the time and energy, it takes a while but they'll show their true colors. That's why there's always new makers and a lot fewer old makers. Think about this; think about how many new people come on here every week asking how to start, compare this to the number of people that have been at it for over 5 years. Y'all are right when you said the market will deal with the people that don't put the work in.
I've made some great friends in this, I've met some good people. I work hard to honor the people that have taught me and to honor the craft. Maybe I'm just a dinosaur in my way of thinking. I probably need to just toss a bunch of @#$@# on the wall and see what people will buy.
Dont be tempted to lower your own standards Will, the ninja monkeys wouldnt approve.
Capitalism is a great thing the market will indeed separate the wheat from the chaff. That is why I wont put anything of mine on here for sale. I dont want to become known as someone who will take a piece of scrap, throw some wood on it and call it a knife. I truly want to learn to make a quality knife, not for monetary gain (although that would be nice
) but simply because I have found that I really love making knives and anything I do is worth putting the work into to do it right.I dont expect to put my work by these older makers for years to come, but I can learn from them along the way.
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Everyone has to find their own style of working. I can think of a few famous knife makers who routinely sell knives that I personally would be embarrassed to put my name on. They get big $$. They've found their niche, and it is based on things other than fit and finish. There are many factors in selling a knife other than the hand-rubbed finish, and many types of users and collectors. My philosophy is to make things that I am proud of, to the best I can do at this point in time. Don't waste time worrying about what other people are or are not selling.
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Just to play Devil's advocate, anyone in here ever think that some people don't want to buy the best you can do? Or at least they don't want to pay for it. Nearly every maker on the planet has some knives that they sell for more and some that they sell for less. Some that get sent for engraving and some that get sent out for nice sheath work. Some folks want a tactical knife to abuse or a hunting knife to hunt with, now they might spend $150 on one, but they sure aren't going to spend $700.
The point here is that there may be some miscommunication or misunderstanding of words, I always work hard of my knives, but I do recognize that there are price and quality points for people. If a 2000 grit hand rub is the best finish you can do, do you have to put one on every knife?
The point here is that there may be some miscommunication or misunderstanding of words, I always work hard of my knives, but I do recognize that there are price and quality points for people. If a 2000 grit hand rub is the best finish you can do, do you have to put one on every knife?
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AcridSaint, that's what I meant when I said that a rough finished knife is not the same as a poorly finished knife. If I put a 400 grit hand rubbed finish on a knife you can bet your ass it's done to the best of my ability just the same as if I went on up to 2000 grit. And if a maker can't get it right at 400, going up to 2000 isn't going to improve the quality of the knife. It's just a different finish. Same thing applies if you decide not to hand rub it at all. Hand rubbing a blade doesn't make your grinding any better. Some finishes take more time and cost more than others but no ,matter what finish you choose to put on a knife it should be the highest quality that you are capable of.
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Hi Jason, I agree with your comments there, I think we're on the same page.
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If you put a 400x finish on a using knife it should be the best 400x you can do. If you put a scotchbrite finish on a knife it should be the best you can do. You can't drive an Indy car to work, you can't drive your work car at Indy. Everything has a purpose, the design and craftsmanship is driven by the purpose. My issue isn't with the level of finish (like 400x vs 2000x) it's with the obvious flaws and lack of work that people try to reason away by explaining it's the genre.
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Brother, you got that right. I learned the hard way not to let early slips in the filing/sanding pattern pass; they're just going to come back and bite me in the butt if I do. And that ends up taking longer to fix than doing it right the first time.
You guys are also right about quality being "job one" as the Ford folks used to say. I see some guys like Nick selling some knives with a real basic machine finish. But they still keep everything nice and straight, and that's OK with me. They're keeping costs down but not sacrificing craftsmanship. (Sorry to speak for anyone else, I just figured that was their intent.)