Spark crossed a line

[Esav Benyamin]

Who is this guy? All private and no PM and no email- yes, that is his right to remain anonymous,

The strongest argument Strider fans have is that Mick's private life is his own, and the knives should be judged on their merit. But here you are insinuating that a poster should validate his credentials before having his opinion taken seriously.

but he is just a fellow who is making up grossly inaccurate BS accusations about what "he" perceives as fallout from all this.

He's not making anything up, he is quoting actual BF members expressing their discomfort with the situation. Not accusations but actual decisions not to patronize Strider Knives.

Look at what he said;

Based on his statement that I quoted, I asked him to provide some proof of this above absurd claim re the impact of "sales"- etc. He came back with forum quotes..... not very conclusive and unimpressive, in my opinion.

I am a private company and would not ever divulge my figures re Strider or any other company/knife maker with whom I do business.

However, nobody has asked me, a large Strider dealer, how this has impacted my business.

Of course his data are inconclusive. It's also preliminary, a sample taken in the heat of the argument. Your sales wouldn't show a bit of it at this point. I doubt they would show a significant drop ever. Some other vendors might, though. Your customers are more perceptive of their own needs and the value of the knives themselves.

Rather, ron mathews, comes out of nowhere with spurious claims and more pointless drama.

Anyway, enough- true everyone has a right to speak their mind on this forum- no disputing that. It's just that false and unsubstantiated statements like this one quoted makes me wonder what the motives are- that's all.

We would be better off if you would dispute the data rather than the poster's creentials. His data do speak for themselves. You might contest the sample size, but his motives are irrelevent.

I am surprised that you, Esav, who is typically a voice of reason on this forum cannot see my point here.

I am always a voice of reason when I agree with people.

Have a nice weekend all,

Neil Ostroff
AUTHORIZED STRIDER DEALER

Shabat shalom.

 

[Neil Ostroff]

I am always a voice of reason when I agree with people.

Well, actually, I do agree with you on this point.

Back to work- got a call in to Strider for more knives.:thumbup:

Regards, Neil
AUTHORIZED STRIDER DEALER

 

[DaveH]

I would expect that the sales would go up at least in the short term, as loyal strider fans decide to show their support and buy knives.

Long term effect is harder to guess at.

 

[ron mathews]

makes me wonder what the motives are- that's all.
Neil Ostroff
AUTHORIZED STRIDER DEALER

I have a real problem with anyone whom I believe has stolen valor. I have seen too many guys earn valor by forfeiting their lives.

 

[Moodino]

'Valor' is subject to concensus and opinion like most human constructs. It's not absolute. Therefore, it's pointless creating a system of 'relative valor' since the premise is flawed in the first place. Sales, cold hard sales based on professional reputation and service excellence, now that's different. Anytime so-called ethics and morality enter into conversations or transactions about manufacturing quality or service excellence- I get suspicious of motive. I've been burned by too many 'faith based' business people lately to care much for dubious human constructs such as valor, honor, patriotism or allegiance to supernatural beings and thier emissaries et al .:thumbdn:

I have a real problem with anyone whom I believe has stolen valor. I have seen too many guys earn valor by forfeiting their lives.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Anytime so-called ethics and morality enter into conversations or transactions about manufacturing quality or service excellence- I get suspicious of motive.

The conversation was never about manufacturing quality or service excellence.

So what is your motive?

 

[Boats]

Anyone else ready to let this all die down yet?

Maybe one more round of recriminations will prove conclusive?:thumbdn:

 

[Moodino]

My motive is to drive home the point that no one can be right about these issues and that insinuations about relative 'standing' are null for finding of relevance. Simply put, these circular threads can continue for an infinite loop as each subsequent poster tries to have the last word or clarify an illworded message ad infinitum or keep everyone on track or ...you get the picture- unless they are locked or abandoned. We see that in most forums. It's a waste of bandwidth IMHO. Like I said before, it's better to spin off a whole separate entities... "JusticeRecriminationRetributionBackstabingBitchin.com" . What do you think? Then another whole domain or forum can be devoted to Geopolitical musings with no foundation. Let's call that one "UnsupportedGeopoliticalMusings.com"
It seems these special interest forums do more traffic in these topics than in the core issues- like knife talk. That's my motive- driving the point home

The conversation was never about manufacturing quality or service excellence.

So what is your motive?

 

[Spark]

As far as my motivation, simple, as a member of this community I strongly felt that actions of Spark was an innappropriate use of his forum as I disagree with Keith, it is appears to me that Sparks intention was malicious.
...
This debacle, in my opinion, is not the calm fact finding mission that Spark et al espouses, but an ill-natured witch hunt.
...
It wasn't until a short time prior starting this post that I learned that a smear campaign was launched by Spark against Mick Strider.

You know, I love reading things like this because the sheer hypocrisy and double standards regarding Mick Strider continually amaze me.

Anytime anything happens that pisses off ol' Mick, a smear campaign is exactly what happens - against the target of Mick's anger.

Folks, I'm going to show you examples of a "smear campaign" -
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243854
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243514

These two threads were started while I was at SHOT Show in 2003. Mick Strider was too incompetent or lazy to figure out the forums software (suppossedly) to moderate his own forum, that I provided free of charge for years, and somehow managed not to email, private message or call me via the phone for help. Or any other Moderator on this site. What are those threads filled with? A bunch of character assassinations, speculation, and a smear campaign against me. And suprise suprise suprise, look what names turn up in there, but some of the same ones taking shots at me in the latest threads. If I was going to speculate on a motive, I'd guess that the idea was to get people to go elsewhere and hurt my business, but hey, let's not speculate.

When I got back, I posted this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243626 and suprise suprise, there were more shots taken. Mick even admits that he's wrong for being such an ass. Unfortunately, Mick choses to continue down the same road, resulting in my shutting down his forum:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=737&a=49

Now, let's fast forward 2 years, to 2005. Someone posts a thread about a Maxpedition Boycott, again organized by Strider groupies:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360258
Do a search on that thread for posts by my username. You'll find none. Now do a search for posts containing "spark" and what do you find? Oh hey, it's character assassination, cheap shots, and a smear campaign against me, even though I had nothing to do with this issue. I didn't start the thread, had nothing to do with the PI, and didn't take part in it, yet somehow I'm dragged in again.

Now take a look at the threads in TacticalForums.com... you know, the ones that got Mick Strider's ass sued by Chris Osman for (suprise suprise), libel and defamation. What's that? Another smear campaign associated with the Mick Strider? Say it isn't so.

Now let's take a look at this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450456&highlight=cold+steel
Why, it's about Cold Steel ripping off Strider! And who started it? A strider groupie! And what happens? Well Mick's past is questioned! And it's not even by me initially, I don't even post in that thread until 8 days after the first instance of Mick Strider's combat vet status is being questioned.

Heck, on second examination, let's look at Michelle's post here:

All the info is out there if people want to bother looking. But I guess it's easier to just reference one "source" and consider it gospel. I can tell you right now that if you are going to pick a singular source, TF is not the way to go.

Heck, she's right! All the info is out there, if people want to bother looking. After I read the Badlands post by Mick Strider, and didn't believe his story, I went looking. After I put it all together, suprise, it looks like Mick Strider hasn't been telling the truth. And guess what, the gory details were new to me, as well as a whole bunch of other people.

So if you are going to call this a smear campaign, you'd better get your facts straight. I didn't instigate any of this crap. I didn't sit behind Mick Strider and force him to make any of these claims. I didn't force him to talk shit about me, or Maxpedition, or Chris Osman. I didn't force his fans to start huge threads about these things, or Mad Dog to post his information on TacticalForums. I didn't have anything to do with Lynn Thompson and the GI Tanto, or the backlash because of it.

All I did was go looking (ironically, doing what Michelle suggested, even if unintentionally), put all this in one location, and let the facts speak for themselves. Since doing so, a smear campaign has been exactly what's happened, with me as the target. I've gotten some interesting emails, and some great threads from elsewhere snailmailed to me, and I love how the documents I've provided are considered utterly bogus, but the hearsay and complete BS being shoveled around about me, my business, and my background are taken as gospel. Just goes to show, hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well, and honor & integrity are just paid lipservice.

Dizos, your boy dug his own hole, without anyone else's help. Trying to say it's a smear campaign that I've organized, when the information's been out there for years, and I'm the latecomer to all this, is hilarious. I just pointed out that what he's shoveling doesn't pass the smell test. Maybe he can blame it on his PTSD from all his combat service.

 

[wolfmann601]

You know, a few year back I was involved in a minor shooting situation where about 600 rounds were fired by a real bad man ( I remember reading a "Badman" thread on the Strider here that was nothing like the badman I encountered but I digress). During this minor shooting, the car I had driven that day ended up with 169 documented bulletholes but hell, it was a Ford and deserved at least 150!!!!
So like usual, the news ran with the story and due to it being blackfly season with an occassional story on a road kill Pheasants, there was not much else so my story occupied the front page/top TV story for a few weeks.
Along comes this guy from way, I mean WAY up North who got tired of seeing me get all this attention and staged a scenario where a silver Toyota occupied by two VERY bad men had shot him four times ( had to beat my numbers, heroes must have this) and of course the shooter's car had no plates. Luckily for him the .38cal handgun loads that hit his vest just bounced off leaving one very small welts ( good thing he was a good reloader, huh). DAMN what a hero, I was so proud and happy that he faced some very bad men and did it without ever reading the Badman stories here or anywhere, WOW what a hero, Damn!!!!!!!
Then after a few days the fraud was discovered. He was discredited, outted publicly and terminated. They do those things to these types I suppose but at least I got removed from page one to page three because Turkey hunting had just opened and that's news. I could now go back to hating Fords and liking S&W knives ( I was younger then)
I knew this guy and he was a nice guy and those that outted him did so because that's reality. Made me realize that those who seek notiriety and think hero status equates to big balls, tough guy status think it's important in the larger scheme of life.
Then this guy runs into me a few years later and got in my face and called me out, maybe because he thought I had something to do with the Pheasant hunting story going to page 4, he knew I did not out him and would not have anyway. Who gives a F**K. I backed down and walked, not because he wanted to, and clearly could beat the shiit out of me but because what happened to me and what happened to him would still remain the same and being in a fight never equated to me in my book as toughness. Yeah, I am a pussy I suppose if that's the litmus test. And to the guy that uncovered the fraud, I too disagreed with how, why and what he did but knew why he did what he did. Whethere it was personal or not, it was the truth. For these types of events I will always disagree but NEVER place fault on the "reporter" as long as what he reported was the truth. Good men who have a job to do just do their job because that's how they live. Even in a no-war, really bumphuck world there are those who value heroics as something 100 steps below a nice "Thanks dude, job well done" Now doing your job well is the true indicator is it not?

Now can this die and we all move on..................................

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

Then after a few days the fraud was discovered. He was discredited, outted publicly and terminated. They do those things to these types I suppose but at least I got removed from page one to page three because Turkey hunting had just opened and that's news. I could now go back to hating Fords and liking S&W knives ( I was younger then)
I knew this guy and he was a nice guy and those that outted him did so because that's reality. Made me realize that those who seek notiriety and think hero status equates to big balls, tough guy status think it's important in the larger scheme of life...

Someone whose self-esteem is so low that they need to lie about themselves in order to attain the respect they crave is quite pathetic, indeed. You can even feel sorry for such a one. Does not excuse the fact that they wrongfully expected some sort of compensation (i.e., increased sales, public recognition, a medal, etc.) for telling lies.

 

[automated ugug]

Now, let's fast forward 2 years, to 2005. Someone posts a thread about a Maxpedition Boycott, again organized by Strider groupies:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360258

i swore i wan't going to post again in these threads..but spark and sifu1a's posts made me do his

i asked directly in another forum, yes on the internet, whetehr the maxpedition/cold steel stuff was bullshit .. he said you have my word, a matter of bushido etc , i took that as the truth and said to others on british forums that we should boycott maxpedition, cold steel etc.. Mr Strider was an honest man ..


so yes he fuckign owes me an explanation. just as his word and version of the truth was given over the internet.. so should his explanation .. i don't give a shit how good his knives are . how dare he say this is what i did, take my word for it . and then hide behind a series of lies, bullshit, friends throwing out innuendo to deflect from the real issues... Spark did the right thing ... Mr Strider has to step up or step off

 

[dakotared]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." TR

 

[Horned Toad]

Originally Posted by Spark
Summary:
1. Mick Strider’s birth name is Mickey Ray Burger.
2. Mick Strider claims he served in the 2/75th Rangers. .At some point Mick posted a copy of his DD214. Allegations were made that it was altered, specifically that he entered “Honorable” (note mixed case lettering) in the discharge block.
3. Mick Strider claims that he is a combat veteran.
4. Mick Strider claims that during service, he developed a spinal injury, causing him to lose jump status, resulting in his discharge. Mick Strider later claims that this injury led him to incur disciplinary action (whether Article 15 or other not known), and be discharged from service as an E1
5. Court documents involving a libel & defamation case against Mick Strider include a settlement where he states his discharge from Army service as an E1, and barred from reenlistment. Part of the settlement agreement includes statemens refuting combat claims and "black ops" experience. Military.com shows Mickey Ray Burger as having a final rank of E1.
6. From 1986 to 1993 there is no information on Mick Strider's activities. Evidence of Special Operations affiliation during this time is absent and not provided.
7. Mick Strider states that after his time in the Army, he "rolled" with some "heavy" hitters and alludes that this time was spend performing Special Operations missions during magazine articles.
8. Mick Strider claims in 1993 he was "tasked" with obtaining a vehicle and stole it / carjacked it. It is intimated that this was done while operating in a “black ops” unit. He was arrested and convicted for this crime.
9. Mick Strider claims that during sentencing, the prosecutor was supposed to ask for his sentence to be one year’s service in Somalia, with his pay forfeit. Given the nature of the other claims, this service is intimated to be Special Operations in nature, especially given his attempts to tie it to the deaths of Rangers in Mogadishu during that time.
10. Mick Strider does not “serve for a year in Somalia” and was instead sentenced to 5 years in prison.
11. After release from prison in 1998, Mick Strider started Strider Knives.
12. Following Mick Strider’s release from prison, he builds a reputation that his products are based on Special Operations and combat experience. Numerous magazine articles are written alleging to this experience and how it makes his product a better choice.
13. Mick Strider makes numerous statements online that his is a combat veteran, and makes references to carrying and using firearms, despite revelations that he is, in fact a convicted felon.
14. Current collaborations with other businesses list Mick Strider as former Special Operations personnel.



1 Yep, he changed it, what does that have to do with anything.
2 Yes he was in 2/75 verified by both Ranger Associations.
3 I guess someone has quotes other than Kevin and Lance
4 Being looked into now, not even the Ranger Associations has that info at their finger tips, so up in the air.
5 Yep Mick said that
6 No info whatsoever, I think that is the info was available to make Mick look bad his detractors would have long since brought it forward.
7 I read Mick’s post on that, my impression was that he was in with a group of criminals, not special ops. I guess it depends on what you want to read into it.
8 Same as number seven, I think people want to read into the statement because of the use of the word “tasked”.
9 hasn’t been proven or disproven
10 I think we all know that Mick did serve time, that was never really secrete, it just wasn’t thrown out a lot either.
11 Starting a business is now a bad thing I guess.
12 Okay
13 Maybe on the combat part, I don’t read or memorize everything Mick says, but in the other thread, this was brought up and the proof turned out to be a pic of Duane.
14 Okay


My view is this all comes down to 4, 5, and 6.
Was he hurt? What did he do between 86 and 93? If he didn’t do anything then 5 is correct, if he did go abroad, then 5 was the easy way out?

How does this concern the original topic and Spark? I feel that by the way Spark phrased his email to Mclung it shows that this was more a personal thing than any kind of moral issue. I do have a question for Spark; you say it was the Somalia thing that finally got your goat and made you do something about this, so where did you hear that. Were you lurking at BLs waiting and watching everything that Mick wrote or did that get emailed to you?

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." TR

I cannot f*cking believe you're applying this quote to Mick of Strider Knives.

Does he cornhole you frequently, or only occasionally?

 

[DocArnie]

13 Maybe on the combat part, I don’t read or memorize everything Mick says, but in the other thread, this was brought up and the proof turned out to be a pic of Duane.

This wasn't about the pic. If you and the other supporters of Strider had read Sparks thread (which you obviously didn't, because some bros told you it's all crap and that was good enough for you... [I can't stop bringing that phrase, it's priceless - it sums it all up!]) you would have noticed the Strider quote where he's for example talking about buying a gun for carry.
So he was either talking BS to make his fake background sound more realistic, or he was really going to break the law. I don't know if he really did, but that doesn't matter. I'm not a judge, I can't and won't punish him for anything. But I can stop buying his stuff, since it's pretty obvious that he's a liar.
What's even worse than Strider's lies, is that people with good reputation seem to don't give a shit about the fact, that his customers have been betrayed. How can I buy from a knifemaker who thinks it's OK to screw the customers?

Were you lurking at BLs waiting and watching everything that Mick wrote or did that get emailed to you?

In the Cold Steel thread it was mentioned that Mick Strider gave an explaination at badlands. Michelle invited everyone to look there IIRC.

 

[robertmegar]

I cannot f*cking believe you're applying this quote to Mick of Strider Knives.

Does he cornhole you frequently, or only occasionally?

I can't believe your language, this is not W&C......

 

[Danno4017]

I think that there is plenty of Rubbish from both sides in this matter.
Getting back to the point of it all, regarding using or pushing perceptions of military SOCOM backgrounds, or at least not denying these points is ongoing.
On Ebay at the moment, probably through no fault of his own a seller is using the line he believs to be true.
"Buck Knives, Strider series is a collaboration between Buck Knives, Mick Strider and Duane Dwyer (former members of United States Special Operations Command-SOCOM). Buck Striders are solid through and through, from the high tech ATS-34 stainless steel blades to the almost indestructible G-10 handles. Buck Strider knives are tough!"
I will not post the link but it can easily be found on ebay search buck / strider.
The whole mess needs cleaning up, I can not tell who is telling the truth in half of this.

 

[Moodino]

And yet as modern history has shown, it is indeed the critic that sways the votes, that steals the election. Don't believe me? Then what do you call 'The Media' ? So smear campaigns are as common to human society as flies.
-------------------------------------

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." TR

 

[Moodino]

It's pointless to complain because this form of misinformation is the heart and soul of modern commerce. Ford is a old American institution and thier marketing is mostly lies, they also knowingly sell trucks that are deadly. This predicament is ubiquitous.If you tried to only do business with saints, you'd be hard pressed to find any. This whole issue really hinges on two motives. On the one hand, someone has deliberately concealed the truth about thier past in order to succeed in the present and future. I tell you, this is totally NORMAL in humans. On the other hand, a jealous party seeks to derail the deceptive party's success due to lost potential income from a deal that never transpired. This is NORMAL too! That's why I keep driving home the point that it doesn't matter. Since there are no Saints here, why bother with recriminations? Look, Strider will probably make more money from the press he's getting from all this. Spark has this other business, the One-Stop-Knife-Shop. Now he'll do some extra business too from it all. In business however, I predict this will end up as a Win Win/Lose Lose. At first both will make more money and then the public will tag them both as untrustworthy mutual back stabbers, and a third party will sneak in and wipe them both out. Happens all the time.

I think that there is plenty of Rubbish from both sides in this matter.
Getting back to the point of it all, regarding using or pushing perceptions of military SOCOM backgrounds, or at least not denying these points is ongoing.
On Ebay at the moment, probably through no fault of his own a seller is using the line he believs to be true.
"Buck Knives, Strider series is a collaboration between Buck Knives, Mick Strider and Duane Dwyer (former members of United States Special Operations Command-SOCOM). Buck Striders are solid through and through, from the high tech ATS-34 stainless steel blades to the almost indestructible G-10 handles. Buck Strider knives are tough!"
I will not post the link but it can easily be found on ebay search buck / strider.
The whole mess needs cleaning up, I can not tell who is telling the truth in half of this.