Spine Whacks and Lock Strength

I love user knives. I own many, many knives and the only knives I use are tough blades. The reason being is I know the tough blades will last and last.

That being said, I EDC a 4 inch voyager and mostly love it. I love the strength cold steel blades offer.

BUT, you guys should come out with a slightly higher line of knives. DON'T use S30V. DON'T use that DIN1.4114 stuff. Use a good moderate steel like 14C28N, incorporate the Tri-AD lock and a FFG and you got a HIT. Personally, I don't care whether you use G10 or Grivory handles. I just long for a US made Tri-AD.

I would BUY more of your knives if they didn't have hollow grinds.

All this said, I love your knives and I love the fact that your philosophy and business is a no BS type of thing. You make knives as tools and weapons and there is no "beat around the bush" discussion.
 
stabman said:
Seriously?
I'm only 36 years on this planet, but I have never had a lock fail from regular use.
Hell, I've never had even a cheap Pakistani lock-back fail when doing stupid crap like stabbing trees and other pointless stuff.
Also, I like the Tri-Ad lock, but better than the AXIS and compression lock?
That remains to be proven.
Equal? Sure, I'll buy that. Better? Nah.
Click to expand...

Hi stabman,

what I now write is my opinion. I think from what I've seen so far that the Tri-Ad Lock is one of the todays strongest locks for folding knives. The Tri-Ad doesn't only look strong it feels and definitely is VERY strong.
Yes, I'm a new registered member but I wanted to show you these two videos so you know why I have this opinion.

Compression lock on Para 2 test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ED58nK6Gpc

Compression lock on Para 2 test 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZWRZwxuntQ

Cold Steel Spartan test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9PomOMYt9o

A knife with Tri-Ad lock I can hammer into a tree and do other things with it I would never do with my Spyderco knives. I love my Spyderco knives for their leightweight and comfortable carry and very good steels AND I love my Cold Steel knives for their pure ruggedness and confidence that I have in them that they can handle some abuse IF I really need to.

I thank Cold Steel for their tough folders and I thank Spyderco for their very leight, good looking Slicing powerhorses.
 
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MisterXY said:
Hi stabman,

what I now write is my opinion. I think from what I've seen so far that the Tri-Ad Lock is one of the todays strongest locks for folding knives. The Tri-Ad doesn't only look strong it feels and definitely is VERY strong.
Yes, I'm a new registered member but I wanted to show you these two videos so you know why I have this opinion.

Compression lock on Para 2 test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ED58nK6Gpc

Compression lock on Para 2 test 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZWRZwxuntQ

Cold Steel Spartan test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9PomOMYt9o

A knife with Tri-Ad lock I can hammer into a tree and do other things with it I would never do with my Spyderco knives. I love my Spyderco knives for their leightweight and comfortable carry and very good steels AND I love my Cold Steel knives for their pure ruggedness and confidence that I have in them that they can handle some abuse IF I really need to.

I thank Cold Steel for their tough folders and I thank Spyderco for their very leight, good looking Slicing powerhorses.
Click to expand...

I gotta say, I sold all my Spydercos. Their knives are little toys to me. I don't like their philosophy of "knives are tools to only cut with" because models like the military are just not what I would expect to use in the military. They just aren't tough enough. I even had them falling apart with light EDC use. I loved the materials but the overall durability doesn't even come close to CS.
 
europeanoutdoorsman said:
I even had them falling apart with light EDC use. I loved the materials but the overall durability doesn't even come close to CS.
Click to expand...

Really?
I never had any of mine come close to failure...and I would LOVE to see a Tuff fall apart from even abusive use. ;)
 
stabman said:
Really?
I never had any of mine come close to failure...and I would LOVE to see a Tuff fall apart from even abusive use. ;)
Click to expand...

I never had a Tuff. I only owned 2 stretches (I loved that knife, but then again the strength), 2 enduras, and a UKPK. The screws which held in the back spacer for the endura and stretch fell out. By that I mean the entire barrel fell out, loc-tite won't fix that. I didn't really use the UKPK. I tried to get Spyderco to replace the screws, twice, even offering to pay for them. I had Spyderco fans flaming me in the sub forum. I never got the replacements and I had to search high and low for a size that might fit (Spyderco wouldn't even tell me the sizes for the screws/barrels). I ended up selling them because of this.
 
Jaytaylor said:
Very humorous, what is that guys accent? I can hear Irish in that accent.
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That's a Newfoundland accent. Most eastern part of Canada. Interesting you say that it has an Irish twang as a I had a client from South Africa once tell me the same thing about our accents and we're from eastern Canada as well. Funny how you don't have any idea how you sound to others.
 
europeanoutdoorsman said:
I gotta say, I sold all my Spydercos. Their knives are little toys to me. I don't like their philosophy of "knives are tools to only cut with" because models like the military are just not what I would expect to use in the military. They just aren't tough enough. I even had them falling apart with light EDC use. I loved the materials but the overall durability doesn't even come close to CS.
Click to expand...

What branch were you in?
 
europeanoutdoorsman said:
I never had a Tuff. I only owned 2 stretches (I loved that knife, but then again the strength), 2 enduras, and a UKPK. The screws which held in the back spacer for the endura and stretch fell out. By that I mean the entire barrel fell out, loc-tite won't fix that. I didn't really use the UKPK. I tried to get Spyderco to replace the screws, twice, even offering to pay for them. I had Spyderco fans flaming me in the sub forum. I never got the replacements and I had to search high and low for a size that might fit (Spyderco wouldn't even tell me the sizes for the screws/barrels). I ended up selling them because of this.
Click to expand...

What happened to your Endura seems like an extreme oddity. Did that happen to both of them or just the one? What exactly did you do to get it to fail so spectacularly because I carried mine for years and sliced, pried, chopped, carved, dug, and stabbed it through a lot of different materials without a hiccup. In fact, it's still clipped to my riding chaps and sees regular use and abuse to this day.

This isn't a knock against CS' folder durability at all, as I have zero experience with their folders so I cannot comment on them. CS fixed blades, on the other hand, are working beasts that have seen me through many years and then been passed on to friends for more use and abuse (with no feedback of failure, ever). I am simply saying that it seems extremely odd that you managed to have a catastrophic failure on your Endura and Stretch models while so very many folks have put them through hell without a problem.
 
This is an old video of what can happen to a regular lock back..... Old 4" Voyager..... The over Strikes pretty much killed it....

Around the 2 min mark the lock failed......

[video=youtube;j6ajL1BT8sU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ajL1BT8sU[/video]
 
Ankerson said:
This is an old video of what can happen to a regular lock back..... Old 4" Voyager..... The over Strikes pretty much killed it....

Around the 2 min mark the lock failed......
Click to expand...

What CAN happen if....

You whack the handle against a block of wood,
Hold the knife backwards and whack the back of the blade against a block of wood,
Baton with a small folder,
Use it as a pry bar.

None of which represent the correct use of a folding pocket knife.


Take a knife, abuse it with the intension of breaking it, it breaks.......And?
 
Jaytaylor said:
What CAN happen if....

You whack the handle against a block of wood,
Hold the knife backwards and whack the back of the blade against a block of wood,
Baton with a small folder,
Use it as a pry bar.

None of which represent the correct use of a folding pocket knife.


Take a knife, abuse it with the intension of breaking it, it breaks.......And?
Click to expand...

The point was to show the difference..... Between the Tri-Ad and a normal Lock Back as was stated in the video. :rolleyes:

I have broken folders before in use out in the field.

Been testing knives now for around 30 years.....
 
Let me preface this reply by saying,

A) I have many Cold Steel knives, ('bout 1/2 dozen or more)

2) All the CS knives I have I love, (that's why I bought them)

Third, I don't subscribe to the theory that spine whacks equate to the failure or success of a locking folder.

I buy Cold Steel knives because for the money they are a great knife, probably tested more than any knife out there as evidenced by countless YouTube videos out there, granted they are not all made from the best materials but but very adequate for the price point and if used as a knife was meant to be used they are a great value offering some unique knives.

Now I'm not gonna say every CS knife tickles my fancy or that all their names for knives are for lack of a better word, appropriate but that's just my opinion, suffice it to say all the CS knives I own are ones I like and if lost or damaged I wouldn't hesitate to replace 'em.

As far as the validity of the spine whack test, I personally don't put much stock in, I can make any lock fall is just a matter of understanding the mechanics of the lock and exploiting it's weakness, again spine whacks prove nothing to me if I want a knife that won't fold in an emergency, I'll use a fixed blade.

To the folks at CD, you must be doing something right, if you lock back in the older posts on the general forum and sometimes in the W&C forum, (a lot of the old CS threads wound up there because of the mentality of some members who apparently hate CS products personally going off on the CS business model)

I applaud CS for making a forum available for the debate and exchange of ideas regarding their product and I hope they don't judge the rest of this forum by the few, albeit angry haters who take any opportunity to trash CS.

I do have to admit though that the videos are very entertaining and although they offer insight into the different models available by CS and their intended use I believe CS would be taken more seriously by the community as a whole.

Again guys thanks for giving people who have CS products a place to complain, applaud or just chat with other like minded individuals.
 
EZ Bake said:
What branch were you in?
Click to expand...

Army

Torm said:
What happened to your Endura seems like an extreme oddity. Did that happen to both of them or just the one? What exactly did you do to get it to fail so spectacularly because I carried mine for years and sliced, pried, chopped, carved, dug, and stabbed it through a lot of different materials without a hiccup. In fact, it's still clipped to my riding chaps and sees regular use and abuse to this day.

This isn't a knock against CS' folder durability at all, as I have zero experience with their folders so I cannot comment on them. CS fixed blades, on the other hand, are working beasts that have seen me through many years and then been passed on to friends for more use and abuse (with no feedback of failure, ever). I am simply saying that it seems extremely odd that you managed to have a catastrophic failure on your Endura and Stretch models while so very many folks have put them through hell without a problem.
Click to expand...

Our of the 2 stretches and 2 enduras (1 was the endura wave), 1 stretch and 1 endura had that happen. The endura wave ended up having some blade play in it after some time. The stretch is something that I loved, the ergos were excellent and I wish there was something of a mix between it and a CS voyager. Like a thinner voyager in the size and blade shape of the stretch with of course the tri-ad lock. These 2 enduras went on a camping trip. One of them was with me (the stretch), the other I gave to someone else during the trip because as I am in Europe, even going camping, people don't always think to take knives. Anyway, the endura's barrel screw came out and the GFN handles looked like the pin just popped through it. Honestly, I didn't use it when it happened and I don't know.

The stretch, I did hard use. I EDC'd it. I wouldn't say I abused it because the lock never failed and I didn't have blade play issues. My father in law has property in Ukraine and we go there to take care of it. I would take that to do most of the cutting tasks I needed to do. IT was getting banged on, dropped, stabbed into stuff.

Keep in mind, there are 3 screws which hold in the back spacer and while the middle one fell out on both, this didn't ruin the function of the knife at all. I sold them to a willing buyer because I was concerned it would happen again.

Not only that, but, I did have knives confiscated at various borders. So, I thought that a cheaper alternative that is also tough would be good. I am from the states, but live in Europe. Knives here are over priced. For example, they usually price the knives in euro, but the same number value as you could find them in the US. For example, a $20 knife would be about 20 euro here, then you add a 20% VAT( higher depending on the shop) about you have about 50% more expensive knife than in the US. So, that is why I went with Cold steel over Spyderco.

Granted CS is not perfect either, but, to me, most Spydercos are collector items especially given the sprint runs and some very high end steels they use. I value CS because they are real users.
 
There are other things that can disengage a knife. I've cut myself pretty bad from liner locks and lockbacks disengaging from normal use. Never once with a cold steel.

To those crying about the TriAd being too hard to close... If your really having that much trouble with it (although theres no triad blade I cant close one handed...) leave the blade somewhere safe half open for a couple days. This will help.
 
T. Erdelyi said:
Third, I don't subscribe to the theory that spine whacks equate to the failure or success of a locking folder.

I buy Cold Steel knives because for the money they are a great knife
Click to expand...

Agreed on both counts. :thumbup:
 
EZ Bake said:
How did you typically use a folding knife in the (I'm assuming US?) Army?
Click to expand...

Opening boxes/ packages, sometimes food prep. Sometimes I cut wood. Keep in mind that I used this on and off duty. I never used it in a way which would really have to stress the knife, but still the confidence in the knife is there.

I did break an AK-47 when I was in the Czech Republic though. I was using it to baton (no surprise there) and the thin hollow grind just bent and broke off.
 
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