Spyderco's Bushcraft in 2009 Catalog

[Sal Glesser]

Hi all,

Thanx for the input. It is always appreciated.

The maker that we are using is quite skilled, does a good job and is fair with his costs. Excellent heat treat and attention to detail. He just happens to be in Taiwan, which saves us about 25-30% over making the knife in the USA or Japan, assuming the knife can be made in Japan or the USA.

I've not seen many made like this, even from custom makers.

The scandi grind is ground on both sides, zero grind, to Chris' geometry and angles. Blade thickness is 1/8". Full skeltonized tang. The handle is extremely comfortable to use, even for hours at a time, which is common for bushcrafters. The sheath is leather and was also designed by Chris Claycomb.

It is surpizing to me that so many would comment on the price of an item, simply by looking at a picture? The price of an item is most often governed by the quality of that item. Hard to tell quality of a item by simply looking at a picture of something, isn't it?

Our prices are based on our costs. Nobody is trying to be unfair here. I'm sure there are many that shop by price, others shop for performance and quality. Some can afford to spend more than others. We're not cutting any corners on the manufacture of this or any other knife that we make. Chris did a beautiful job with the design. He is both an experienced bushcrafter and an excellent custom knifemaker.

Our customers are very discriminating. Our products are usually compared to the best out there and this model will be no exception. If the market is large enough to suppport the production of the product, we'll continue to make it. It's a risk for us as well, as it's not a market in which we are experts.

I spent a great deal of time speaking with the guys from Bushcraft UK. Designs went back and forth and ultimately I decided to trust their judgement and experience as to what made the best bushcraft piece. One of these guys spent 2 months in the bush of an island with his knife and firestarter.

Quality is time and time is money. There will always be less expensive and more expensive products for any industry. That is great for all of us. I'm sure your BMW cost more than my Toyota Prius.

sal

 

[hollowdweller]

Hi all,

Thanx for the input. It is always appreciated.

The maker that we are using is quite skilled, does a good job and is fair with his costs. Excellent heat treat and attention to detail. He just happens to be in Taiwan, which saves us about 25-30% over making the knife in the USA or Japan, assuming the knife can be made in Japan or the USA.

I've not seen many made like this, even from custom makers.

The scandi grind is ground on both sides, zero grind, to Chris' geometry and angles. Blade thickness is 1/8". Full skeltonized tang. The handle is extremely comfortable to use, even for hours at a time, which is common for bushcrafters. The sheath is leather and was also designed by Chris Claycomb.

It is surpizing to me that so many would comment on the price of an item, simply by looking at a picture? The price of an item is most often governed by the quality of that item. Hard to tell quality of a item by simply looking at a picture of something, isn't it?

Our prices are based on our costs. Nobody is trying to be unfair here. I'm sure there are many that shop by price, others shop for performance and quality. Some can afford to spend more than others. We're not cutting any corners on the manufacture of this or any other knife that we make. Chris did a beautiful job with the design. He is both an experienced bushcrafter and an excellent custom knifemaker.

Our customers are very discriminating. Our products are usually compared to the best out there and this model will be no exception. If the market is large enough to suppport the production of the product, we'll continue to make it. It's a risk for us as well, as it's not a market in which we are experts.

I spent a great deal of time speaking with the guys from Bushcraft UK. Designs went back and forth and ultimately I decided to trust their judgement and experience as to what made the best bushcraft piece. One of these guys spent 2 months in the bush of an island with his knife and firestarter.

Quality is time and time is money. There will always be less expensive and more expensive products for any industry. That is great for all of us. I'm sure your BMW cost more than my Toyota Prius.

sal

How about sending one around here as a passaround and maybe we'll have a different opinion?:thumbup:

 

[banana-clip]

Looks like a Mora knife.

 

[Vivi]

How about sending one around here as a passaround and maybe we'll have a different opinion?:thumbup:

I'd be willing to contribute towards purchasing one for a pass around for the W&S Forum.

 

[Sal Glesser]

We can do a passaround when they come out.

sal

 

[SpookyPistolero]

That's most certainly something that I'd be down for! I'll be keeping an eye out.

 

[hollowdweller]

We can do a passaround when they come out.

sal

Cool! :thumbup:

 

[AF]

I think Sal makes a lot of good points. The Sage is made in Taiwan and the quality of that is said to be very high.
The timing may be a little unfortunate with the economy slowing and people skimping.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Man, if only we could get it for $300 You guys should try it at UK prices...$450 equivalent after our extortionate import duty and tax.

Joking apart, I was astounded by the quality of the initial pre-production prototypes that I saw. Prior to this I had been working on another project and had prototypes made in both the US and Japan, and they weren't a patch on this one. The finish and evenness of the grinds was really good, better than many knives I have seen made in the US, while the handle has a lot more shape to it than the picture shows. The handles have more shape to them than most hand made bushcraft knives I have seen.

As has been said, the choice was between making it overseas, and not making it. If it were a company other than Spyderco, I might be more concerned, but when Sal said to me that the maker he had found was good, I was willing to trust his word on it. I am sorry that the idea of "Made in Taiwan" still carries a cloud, but from what I have seen, the quality is there, and more.

On the design, I think it is a very good tool, but then I would! The choice of steel has been discussed elsewhere, but to recap, O-1 is easy to sharpen on a single scandi grind. The popular high spec stainless steels are not, even with diamonds. This particularly holds true for the folk who are craftsmen, or wilderness travellers, but who are not specifically steel junkies. Change it to a flat grind and secondary bevel and the super stainless steels would be great.

Sorry I can't be more help. It seems most of the problem folk are having is with the price and there isn't a lot I can say about that. I hope that when they become available, and some of you get to use one, your other concerns can be allayed.

Another picture, lifted from a different thread:

And the top view. Note: Tapered tang for prototype only.

Best Regards

Chris.

Tactical Bushcrafter = someone who must practice bushcraft clandestinely, silently, secretly...and leave no trace.

The normal state of affairs in England where wild camping is mostly illegal, there's no public land, and all sharp shiny things are frowned on!

Okay, actually, I don't know what one is either . Perhaps I am to blame with my choice of thread title here? http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18377
Oh well

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I can say easily that those handle dimensions look really solid. :thumbup:

 

[Mike Fitz]

Tapered tang? Looks nice! So, full scandi grind, tapered tang, shaped handles, and even manufactured in Taiwan I don't see a big objection in the price if it's under $200.00 street. Closest I can think of off-hand are Charles May knives, which start at around $225 with Micarta and no tapered tang. There's probably others I'm not aware of, but that gives an idea of price point. I have a Sage and the fit and finish is second to none of the Spydies I have. I'm betting the performance lives up to expectations and don't see a big issue with the price.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

Can I ask - why 1/8th inch and not 5/32 or something thicker? Were any of the prototypes thicker? Or does the geometry lend to a thinner blade?

Thanks for your time Sal and Chris.

TF

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Looks like a good piece to me! I'm glad to see the pics and extra specs explaining why the cost is what it is. Catalog photos alone are rarely able to capture what makes a knife of such superficially simple lines so costly.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Hey guys, take some smelling salts - it's a knife not a BMW.

Sol, you're a hell of a salesman.

Doc

 

[C_Claycomb]

Sorry, I don't think that we have stayed with the tapered tang.

That really would have increased cost, and there was discussion of having a bare blade. Don't know whether that will happen, but a parallel tang makes it a realistic option for someone to handle their own bare blade (if they are made), whereas a taper makes it harder.

We were most insistent on 1/8th stock. My first prototype was convex ground from 5/32 stock, and the manufacturer picked up on that for the initial production prototypes, as seen at shows and shown in the pictures. Thing is, with a full grind an a distal taper, 5/32 works nicely, not too heavy and not to thick, but stick a scandi grind on it and you trade off too much real world functionality. Scandi grinds don't batton cut green wood as well as a full grind and thicker blades are worse than thinner. Slicing of food will be better with a thinner blade, as will slicing of any fiberous material. Finally there is the overall weight. I believe that if you are going to pack additional steel, it needs to offer something, like chopping ability. Thicker scandis only seem to offer prying strength, and we all know that the arguement of whether you pry with a knife or not can go on a while!

 

[sargey]

Hi all,

The scandi grind is ground on both sides, zero grind, to Chris' geometry and angles. Blade thickness is 1/8". Full skeltonized tang. The handle is extremely comfortable to use, even for hours at a time, which is common for bushcrafters. The sheath is leather and was also designed by Chris Claycomb.

sal

i sometimes think that a tapered tang is a good thing for an apprentice's piece. it shows the maker has skill, and is aware of how the extra mass of the handle will affect the knife's balance and overall handling. so skimming off a bit of weight at the back moves the balance point forward and looks cool.

however, a skeletonised tang of full thickness is going to be a bit (not a massive amount) stronger than a tapered tang and still move the balance point where you want it. it makes a better knife without the need to show off to all the world that you thought about it.

1/8th is about perfect for this application imho. this knife looks to be super light and agile. but i wouldn't want to go any thinner. i also sometimes baton on the pommel of my knives.

i suppose the skookum is the obvious comparison at what 200 hundred bucks? but there's a massive waiting list for skookums, and guys are already getting the "buttless" skookum variants that are lighter and handier.

i don't know if i'll be able to afford a spyderco bushy any time soon. but i will get one. eventually.

cheers and.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

Chris,

I appreciate your argument. I agree as well - I have a 5/32 knife right now - I LOVE the thickness for most chores in camp but battoning and slicing is made tougher.

Any info on the sheath, maker or design? Will it have a dangler, be leather, or a firesteel loop?

Thanks again.

TF

 

[Ravaillac]

Thinner is better.

I'm not really worried about Taiwan they generally do a pretty good job.

As for price that's more than what costed the Ray Mears Wilkinson woodlore, that was made in Sheffield (or Birmingham, anyway in the UK).

 

[Stainz]

I like the knife - the blade material, too. Not so crazy about scandi-grind - prefer the convex - not fond of the thin blade, either. The deal-killer is the price/Taiwaneese combo. In these times, I prefer to keep my bucks on-shore.

Compared to my 'Bushcraft-heavy' choice, an el-cheapo natural Micarta handled Bark River 'Gameskeeper', the new Spydie is smaller, thinner, and heavier! Were the maple slabs stabilized in uranium? How can a 4.5" A2 blade .215" thick, with really thick/nicely shaped Micarta handle weigh less than your smaller knife? My medium-sized 'bushcraft' Barkies, their Fox River and North Star models, are even lighter, but still .170" thick A2. I fear there just isn't much of a market place for that new model. Good luck, of course. My USA-made Natives have spoiled me for Spydie 'Made in USA' values, anyway.

My only 0-1 blade is a 'Fred's Utility Knife' from Fred Vollmer of Foley, AL, with a 4.5" x 1.1" x .125" blade, which I thought seemed thin. It's the middle one below, with a pair of John Greco's to it's left:

I think the Vollmer knife, with a stackable Kydex sheath, was $120 or so - my wife bought it for me as a gift. I have used it for quite a bit of 'bush-whacking', ie, yard work, around my wooded backyard. My most ambitious day, before the picture, of such duty saw it get washed in hot sudsy water after poison oak exposure. I've never oiled it - and never had blisters after it's use. The 0-1 is a good choice. Oddly, A2 seems more patina sensitive in my use.

Stainz

 

[abo4ster]

Thinner is better.

I'm not really worried about Taiwan they generally do a pretty good job.

QUOTE]

I agree on both your comments. A thinner blade is easier to wield and in my opinion for the volume of batonning that one typically NEEDS to do, 5/32" is more than adequate. Not sure why so much attention is paid to this ~ the only batonning I do (with the same Mora for the last eight years) is making hearth boards, the occasional pole, and making fire in wet weather. At 1/8", that all but negates neck carry too.

Although I'd love it to be an American product, the fact that it is coming out of Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it is poor quality. Like it or not, they can make good stuff over there and if Spyderco is involved, I expect the quality will be there ~ have no doubt.

Hope this knife is successful and it spawns a thinner version with 4" or slightly less blade!