Spyfanman - Where is the birthday card (certificate of Authenticity)? the Conclusion

[Pete1977]

Thanks, Dino.

I think we all know that the moderators have an extremely difficult job here and most of them are outstanding people. IMO, Esav is truly one of the best. As much as it pisses me off that SPY may get off the hook here (what a zero this guy is imo), I think Esav is probably making the right call here despite my frustration toward it.

I seriously doubt that I could be a mod here because I am so passionate about certain things...I despise thieves and liars. People whom I perceive as a thief or a con-artist, like SPY, would be banned immediately. However, there's probably a drawback to having such a prejudice. Because of my extreme prejudice, I might accidentally misinterpret an event and then jump the gun and ban someone who didn't deserve being banned.

Even though I feel SPY deserves a plank walk, perhaps it's best he hang around to suffer the consequences of being someone in a place where no one will ever trust him again.

you're a good egg in my book for what it's worth RWS

 

[moshow9]

This pos SPY also dinged you over this debacle, which was soley 100% his fault, in your Feedback. You now have a negative feedback. I hope your reputation doesn't suffer the same fate as this boob's.

Would Dino not be able to report the feedback or open a thread in Tech Support? Dino completed his end in paying the money, nothing more was required of him. The feedback rating he received was retaliatory.

Edit: /footinmouth . I should have checked Tech Support first, looks like Dino already made a post there and Esav provided instruction.

 

[dinokay]

Love You Man, Your Number 1 in my book.

Thanks, Dino.

I think we all know that the moderators have an extremely difficult job here and most of them are outstanding people. IMO, Esav is truly one of the best. As much as it pisses me off that SPY may get off the hook here (what a zero this guy is imo), I think Esav is probably making the right call here despite my frustration toward it.

I seriously doubt that I could be a mod here because I am so passionate about certain things...I despise thieves and liars. People whom I perceive as a thief or a con-artist, like SPY, would be banned immediately. However, there's probably a drawback to having such a prejudice. Because of my extreme prejudice, I might accidentally misinterpret an event and then jump the gun and ban someone who didn't deserve being banned.

Even though I feel SPY deserves a plank walk, perhaps it's best he hang around to suffer the consequences of being someone in a place where no one will ever trust him again.

 

[SPYfanman]

While I've not dealt directly with you during my short time as a member here, your response was both expected and warranted given what I have gleaned from doing my homework here. I don't expect that there were less than 20X's that a ban was called for in this thread alone.......no doubt in hope's of influencing a certain person's decision making process. If this wave of continued pressure had worked, I know that my faith in mod's in general would have taken a bit of a hit. It surely would have been the easy way out, but even if you personally despised Spy's actions, you came to the only conclusion you possibly could.

Spy involved himself in a shady business practice (not practices, as I don't know of any other situation that would warrant such a label) with Dino. Even though I now would not choose to do business with Spy, I still am not convinced that he is the devil himself as many here obviously believe. People do stupid things and some do them intentionally while others do them unintentionally. I can't know exactly where Spy fits in here, but I am no less wary of him than many other members. I definitely wish he would quit "protesting too much" as it isn't doing him any good, on the contrary, it's killing him along with all of us........

If we were to ban people based on stupidity alone, there would likely be more viewers than members here..........'cuz most all of us have done less than brilliant things in our lives. Heck......as was pointed out earlier, Dino asked Spy to send on to him the remaining parts to the knife that he still possessed. Dino said that for him to do so would help to start the "heailng process". As has been pointed out by other members, this was a less than intelligent move as well and at this point in time, we have no justification for him doing so that makes any GOOD sense......IMHO. Why would someone bash another member for 9 pages, more so than any other member ("victim') or not, then ask for the remaining parts of that same knife to initiate the healing process between both he and that other member.....? The reason stated was to show all other members that Spy was full of "BS" as his reason for doing so, but really, hadn't Dino already done that......in spades? Why start new dealings in asking for the remaining knife parts when he had made it crystal clear that he didn't want anymore dealings with Spy ever again and, in fact, wanted him banned....? Just a curious set of circumstances, but more to the point.........none of us make the right moves all of the time, no matter how much credit we give ourselves over others.

Again.............there is enough information is this thread to help guide me trying to decide if I'd be willing to deal with Spy in the future. In all honesty, I doubt that I would, but that doubt is based more on Spy's inability to understand more quickly that what he did was tantamount to digging his own grave and then trying to dig his way out loooooong after the worms had done their work. That he just couldn't accept responsibility for his actions right away was both disheartening and telling. Not evil, mind you, but perhaps not someone I'd like to transact with in the future.

I'm glad that Dino will be made whole as I believe he deserves every penny and that Spy obviously deserves feeling uncomfortable and under a microscope for as long as it takes in an attempt to recover his "good name". I must also admit however, that during my 6+ decades on earth, this is the first time that I truly believe that I've witnessed such a feeding frenzy above water.

Very Inteligent post. :thumbup:

 

[SPYfanman]

I think the only way to settle this would be for SPYfanman and dinokay to each contact Esav and set up a time frame to allow him direct access to your paypal accounts. If he is willing to act as an arbitrator in this dispute,he will be able to verify the validity of statements made here.

SPY contends that the money for the refund is ultimately coming from his account,be it funds already in his PP account or from his linked bank account.Dino has provided email copy that states PP is covering the refund under the Buyer Protection Policy. Easy enough to change your passwords to a temporary one and set up a time frame for Esav to access your accounts and review the evidence. Once this is done,change your passwords back and Esav will have the concrete evidence necessary to make a decision with the full weight of facts behind it. Were I one of the parties involved here,I would have no problem allowing a highly respected moderator and independent party temporary access to this information and would abide by their decision.

I think we can all agree Esav has nothing to gain here other than the truth,and a conclusion to this situation. I also think we would all unhesitatingly accept his decision in this matter knowing he had based that decision on review of the actual account info and emails from PP,not on what has been posted here.

Interesting idea and one no doubt I would be down for, especially with Esav. I can assume though (and ONLY assume as I am unable to read people's minds and travel back in time even to know exactly what they were thinking at that very moment) that Mr. Kalandtizs would not be so keen on that idea since it might riddle his thesis with so many holes, even an elephant could't stay put in that container. :thumbup:

 

[SPYfanman]

I wanted to take the time to respond to request to withdraw negative feedback on the buyer's part to a Moderator. This comment was written by Esav Benyamin in response to Mr. Kalandtzis question. I would like to respond and add my input since I was the individual who left that feedback. His quote, then my response:

Dino, go to your Feedback Score > View Complete Feedbacks for dinokay. On SPYfanman's feedback line, you will see 3 icons One is the report triangle. Click that and enter your request there.

Don't just link to that long thread. State the problem: you paid in full for his Sebenza which was not new as stated but a Frankenstein put together from parts. All you did that he gave negative feedback for was complain to PayPal that you were cheated.


Esav Benyamin

Actually that was incorrect as to the reason why a Negative Feedback score was given. Initially and even after the buyer trashed my sales thread with misusage of private messages, created a thread merely to prove (unsuccessfully) that I am a scammer, I still planned only to leave a Neutral comment once Mr. Kalandztis accepted my apology. However, things have greatly changed since and I now stand by that Negative feedback unless the right course of action is taken on Mr. kalandztis' part. The purpose of feedback, as you know, is to give honest input as to how the transaction went to each party. I cannot be honest with myself or anyone else here if I leave anything other than a Negative. Mr. Kalandztis formally lied to me, and everyone else on this forum when he said on multiple occasions that I never made that phone call which set things rolling in the right direction. The reason the call is so important is because it not only represents that I took the proper course of action as recommended by many forum members, but also proves that my apology was in fact sincere. Thanks

 

[Esav Benyamin]

The transaction was you sending Dino a new knife and Dino sending you money. Dino did send you money -- positive iTrader feedback earned -- but you sent Dino a Frankenknife, not a new knife. That rates a negative iTrader feedback. Had you replied to his first message saying oops! let's reverse the deal immediately, there would be no need for feedback for anyone.

Blaming him for reacting or even over-reacting to your improper sale is ... low class. And may yet result in an infraction. I strongly suggest you support Dino in asking Spark to reverse that negative to a positive.

 

[Leadfoot2]

I wanted to take the time to respond to request to withdraw negative feedback on the buyer's part to a Moderator. This comment was written by Esav Benyamin in response to Mr. Kalandtzis question. I would like to respond and add my input since I was the individual who left that feedback. His quote, then my response:




Actually that was incorrect as to the reason why a Negative Feedback score was given. Initially and even after the buyer trashed my sales thread with misusage of private messages, created a thread merely to prove (unsuccessfully) that I am a scammer, I still planned only to leave a Neutral comment once Mr. Kalandztis accepted my apology. However, things have greatly changed since and I now stand by that Negative feedback unless the right course of action is taken on Mr. kalandztis' part. The purpose of feedback, as you know, is to give honest input as to how the transaction went to each party. I cannot be honest with myself or anyone else here if I leave anything other than a Negative. Mr. Kalandztis formally lied to me, and everyone else on this forum when he said on multiple occasions that I never made that phone call which set things rolling in the right direction. The reason the call is so important is because it not only represents that I took the proper course of action as recommended by many forum members, but also proves that my apology was in fact sincere. Thanks

One can only sigh in wonder and awe.

 

[snowreaper1]

He still just doesn't get it.

 

[Striderco]

No matter how this pans out I don't think Mr Spyman will be selling too many knives here on the forum anytime soon!

 

[SPYfanman]

I would have to respectfully ask as what does warrant a negative iTrader feedback and are those guidelines listed anywhere in the forum policy rules? I did send Mr. Kalandtzis the knife and he sent me the money, however the transaction did not end there. The knife I did send him was the knife in the photos and the listing and the one he was expecting to receive. I agree, however, the deal should have been reversed immediately once it was made of notice the one party wasn't happy and just because I had a bad week at the time coupled with his over-reacting/ rudefulness did not warrant any other course of action. The other forum members did point this out to me and I set out to make it right by calling paypal to reverse the deal. This is when the transaction should have ended, however that is when Mr. Kalandtzis decided to spit on my sincere apology and just action by claiming it was Paypal that arrived at the decision. I am not blaming him for overracting after making the mistake of not issuing a refund in the beginning but rather his very dishonest, "low class" action to twist the facts only to further his cause. Not sure if you chimed in around the time after I posted the apology as there were quite a few very Positive comments commending my action (as there should be to anyone who makes a mistake is given the chance to make it right and then embraces that very action). If the definition of a negative feedback given can be allowed to include any very untrustworthy action against the forum as a whole up until the transaction ended, then I don't see how a positive feedback can issued in full honesty.

 

[l2lku2]

SPYfanman, shut up.

 

[moshow9]

I did send Mr. Kalandtzis the knife and he sent me the money, however the transaction did not end there.

At this point (see bolded text), Dino completed his obligation to you on the sale. He paid you, and that was all he was required to do when he stated he would "take it."

You, however, failed on your obligation. Dino, despite how you may feel about him personally, did not deserve a negative mark in iTrader. Because he completed his end of the deal by paying you. And as a buyer, that is all that is required.

 

[Pete1977]

Interesting idea and one no doubt I would be down for, especially with Esav. I can assume though (and ONLY assume as I am unable to read people's minds and travel back in time even to know exactly what they were thinking at that very moment) that Mr. Kalandtizs would not be so keen on that idea since it might riddle his thesis with so many holes, even an elephant could't stay put in that container. :thumbup:

your reputation is done here and on any other forum that this story finds its way....even if dinokay's story was riddled with holes, enough has come out about you and your practices that you are an unreliable seller...

I wanted to take the time to respond to request to withdraw negative feedback on the buyer's part to a Moderator. This comment was written by Esav Benyamin in response to Mr. Kalandtzis question. I would like to respond and add my input since I was the individual who left that feedback. His quote, then my response:




Actually that was incorrect as to the reason why a Negative Feedback score was given. Initially and even after the buyer trashed my sales thread with misusage of private messages, created a thread merely to prove (unsuccessfully) that I am a scammer, I still planned only to leave a Neutral comment once Mr. Kalandztis accepted my apology. However, things have greatly changed since and I now stand by that Negative feedback unless the right course of action is taken on Mr. kalandztis' part. The purpose of feedback, as you know, is to give honest input as to how the transaction went to each party. I cannot be honest with myself or anyone else here if I leave anything other than a Negative. Mr. Kalandztis formally lied to me, and everyone else on this forum when he said on multiple occasions that I never made that phone call which set things rolling in the right direction. The reason the call is so important is because it not only represents that I took the proper course of action as recommended by many forum members, but also proves that my apology was in fact sincere. Thanks

Dinokay sends money. you recieve money....that is positive feedback on his part....you send knife, dinokay discovers it is a POS slapped together from parts knife...demands refund...you refuse...negative feedback... again...this isn't Ebay and you don't get to leave retaliatory negative feedback! get it through your head!

I would have to respectfully ask as what does warrant a negative iTrader feedback and are those guidelines listed anywhere in the forum policy rules? I did send Mr. Kalandtzis the knife and he sent me the money, however the transaction did not end there. The knife I did send him was the knife in the photos and the listing and the one he was expecting to receive. I agree, however, the deal should have been reversed immediately once it was made of notice the one party wasn't happy and just because I had a bad week at the time coupled with his over-reacting/ rudefulness did not warrant any other course of action. The other forum members did point this out to me and I set out to make it right by calling paypal to reverse the deal. This is when the transaction should have ended, however that is when Mr. Kalandtzis decided to spit on my sincere apology and just action by claiming it was Paypal that arrived at the decision. I am not blaming him for overracting after making the mistake of not issuing a refund in the beginning but rather his very dishonest, "low class" action to twist the facts only to further his cause. Not sure if you chimed in around the time after I posted the apology as there were quite a few very Positive comments commending my action (as there should be to anyone who makes a mistake is given the chance to make it right and then embraces that very action). If the definition of a negative feedback given can be allowed to include any very untrustworthy action against the forum as a whole up until the transaction ended, then I don't see how a positive feedback can issued in full honesty.

why does everything you post seem like shameless self promotion? you earned a negative feedback because you knowingly described and sold a sebenza made from other sebenzas as a new knife. Then when you were told that it wasn't new you argued that it was!! right then is when a negative feedback is earned. Unless dinokay's money was counterfeit, the check bounced, or he paid in rubles, he fulfilled his end of the transaction and is entitled to positive, not neutral, not negative, feedback.

ETA: no matter how rude or "low class" dinokay was, that gives you no right to keep his money even though you sold him something that you misrepresented...and if that was the only reason you kept his money, why did you post a definition of the word new to justify your actions?

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I would have to respectfully ask as what does warrant a negative iTrader feedback and are those guidelines listed anywhere in the forum policy rules? I did send Mr. Kalandtzis the knife and he sent me the money, however the transaction did not end there. The knife I did send him was the knife in the photos and the listing and the one he was expecting to receive. I agree, however, the deal should have been reversed immediately once it was made of notice the one party wasn't happy and just because I had a bad week at the time coupled with his over-reacting/ rudefulness did not warrant any other course of action. The other forum members did point this out to me and I set out to make it right by calling paypal to reverse the deal. This is when the transaction should have ended, however that is when Mr. Kalandtzis decided to spit on my sincere apology and just action by claiming it was Paypal that arrived at the decision. I am not blaming him for overracting after making the mistake of not issuing a refund in the beginning but rather his very dishonest, "low class" action to twist the facts only to further his cause. Not sure if you chimed in around the time after I posted the apology as there were quite a few very Positive comments commending my action (as there should be to anyone who makes a mistake is given the chance to make it right and then embraces that very action). If the definition of a negative feedback given can be allowed to include any very untrustworthy action against the forum as a whole up until the transaction ended, then I don't see how a positive feedback can issued in full honesty.

Wrong.

The transaction was you sending Dino a new knife and Dino sending you money. Dino did send you money -- positive iTrader feedback earned -- but you sent Dino a Frankenknife, not a new knife. That rates a negative iTrader feedback. Had you replied to his first message saying oops! let's reverse the deal immediately, there would be no need for feedback for anyone.

Blaming him for reacting or even over-reacting to your improper sale is ... low class. And may yet result in an infraction. I strongly suggest you support Dino in asking Spark to reverse that negative to a positive.

SPYfanman, shut up.

Good idea.

 

[JTR357]

I just sold a knife yesterday.The buyer paid immediately.That warranted positive feedback,so I left it right away,before the knife even got to his house.

It's like talking to a brick wall,WTF?!

 

[RubiconSS]

Expected Delivery (of Frankenbenza) to Mr. Posey is Today

More correctly stated, Delivery to Mr. Posey's P.O. Box. What and When happens then I guess remains to be seen.

 

[dinokay]

Once the item has reached the seller's post office and they leave him a
note saying the item is there, PayPal can send him a 72 hour notice to pick
up the item. If the seller does not pick up the item, PayPal will release
your funds to you.

Thank you
Dick A.
PayPal Resolutions

Expected Delivery (of Frankenbenza) to Mr. Posey is Today

 

[RubiconSS]

You looking forward to finally seeing resolution to this I imagine? Just a little huh....

Hopefully you won't suffer any long term trepedation toward the process, tough to trust after a thing like this but, the vast majority of folks (I think/hope) are basically honest and forthright in their conduct. You just had the misfortune of running across someone who is/was not.
Maybe the greatest solace can be, tomorrow you will wake up and still be you and he will wake up and still be him.

 

[rickc71]

comment withdrawn