Steel Junky's - need opinions

Hi Thom,

Warren is a great guy and we go back many years. He's also a great knife maker and designer.

I appreciate and thank you for your support. Although Warren has this commitment, we don't let it affect our friendship.

In fact, Warren has been working with Gayle Bradly, another very good maker, and Gayle also represents Spyderco in the ICCT competitions (along with Ed / Martin Schempp).

I guess I get bragging rights to say he won the last event and leads in points for the year.

sal
 
...must behave... ...urge to make dumb comments is overwhelming...

Phew!

So will the first mule be very heard 52100? :)
 
I'm ready to pre order. I'll prepay if needed. If 52100 is the first, then it should be popular. Sal, I'm trying to find a way to send some extra good kharma your way. You've been earning it lately for sure.

We all have a list of steels we want but you have to keep it fairly simple and non resource draining to the Golder plant. I'm thinking that in all the steels that style knife will make a good utility knife that cuts and slices very well.

Once again Darn good idea Sal. Thank you. Joe/Raleigh

Edit in
Dream list:
1V
M4
Blue Steel ( import)
20CV
Vascowear ( whatever it's called now)
T-1, or 10V, , or 15V
S90V
 
I`m definately gonna head the Aussie contingent for this fantastic opportunity . 52100 would make a great start on this and after that i`d just be happy enough to get my hands on the others . Would it be fair to say that if you sign up and buy the first one that you`ll be guaranteed a shot at the next offerings ?? Will there be a sign on for this scheme at all ? What sort of timeframe are we looking at before production begins on the first batch ?

Cheers Sal and many thanks !!
 
thombrogan said:
I'm not sure the good points on marquenched 52100 will show up on a lil leafy mule blade (as opposed to a Schempp camp knife), but near fully hardened 52100 sounds like lots of fun.
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Are you thinking austemper instead of marquench? Marquenching isn't for making bainite, so I would guess it shouldn't affect the martemsite transformation-other than evening out temps before going into it, reducing the chance of cracking.
I'm still trying to pick up on these things.
 
Marquench can be for reduced stress martensite, for lower bainite, and for a martensite/lower-bainite duplex structure. As done by Bob Kramer, it's supposed to be a 30/70 lower-bainite/martensite mixture. Your term, austemper, is more traditionally associated with bainite and martensite/bainite duplex structures and I could well be butchering common metallurgical jargon. Please accept my promise that I've butchered and misused such phrases many times before and will do so again if even unintentionally.
 
Hi Thom,

I've given up on pre-guessing. We've been surprised more than once on what to expect. Testing is good.

Hardheart,

Ed is our "marquench" expert, he and Bob Kramer. As I understand it, the process, using salt, permits some bainite and the "right amount" of retained austenite, creating a tougher matrix.

Ed's in Germany with the Spyder crew. I don't know if he'll get on line.

On the "Mule Team" project, it's just another flavor to taste (test).

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
I didn't like the Wharnie, so I decided to try a leaf (drop p). We're making up a steel proto now to test. I'll try to post some pics when it's finished.
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Glad to hear it, Sal, I find drop points (and similar) a lot more useful than wharnies ... I think you'll see more demand as a result from people wanting to use these to make real, working knives.

52100 at high HRC sounds good as well. Of course I'm hoping this could be the foot-in-the-door we need to eventually get Spyderco to start making some tool steel folders. :)
 
Well, I'm certainly no authority on the terminology, either. AFAIK, they both use low temp salts at around Ms, and it mostly depends on hold time.

According to Verhoeven's HT book in pdf, pg 119, an hour at 475 should give you 100% bainite, and at ~60 Rc, if I read the chart correctly. If held for just a few seconds, to equalize temperature across the piece, and then quenched in oil, I think the transformation should be straight to martensite, with whatever pesky retained austenite.

I'm sure there's no plan to make these little blades fully bainitic, so I would maybe hope for some cryo after, and tempers around 400. I don't know what a good izod test number would be for the steel in a blade like this, but that same Verhoeven chart shows 65 Rc and <20 lb-ft unnotched izod at 1 minute @ 475, and 60 Rc ~45 izod at an hour. (edit-prior to quenching)

I see other steels measured in charpy, and don't know the difference in the tests and significance of the numbers because of them. But I'd say this could be pretty hard, since it's a small blade. But, if this is to influence decisions on HT for the bushcraft knife, it's range of use should also be considered, imo.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Sooooo.......

What is the optimal hardness for 52100?

sal
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From what I've read, with relatively basic heat treat methods ~62HRC might be the upper limit beyond which 52100 becomes pretty brittle.

Based on that, and knives I've used, I agree with Thom, around 61HRC could be a good place to start, especially for the first run. See where you want to go from there.
 
matthewb5016 said:
I`m definately gonna head the Aussie contingent for this fantastic opportunity . 52100 would make a great start on this and after that i`d just be happy enough to get my hands on the others . Would it be fair to say that if you sign up and buy the first one that you`ll be guaranteed a shot at the next offerings ?? Will there be a sign on for this scheme at all ? What sort of timeframe are we looking at before production begins on the first batch ?

Cheers Sal and many thanks !!
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Good questions. One more though: how much will this cost?
 
Maybe I missed it somewhere, and if I did, I am sorry, but what thickness is this blade to be? If it's 1/8" or so, I would think that 52100 should be around 57-59 if 3/16" 60-62. Of course those numbers are my opinion only, and I am guessing that there are many people posting in this thread that have forgotten more about steel and it's properties that I will ever know.
 
Thanks Matthew, I didn't remember it, but I don't doubt that you are correct. In that case, I think I would vote for a Rockwell of 57-59 since that is slightly less than an eighth of an inch. I have no doubt that whatever Sal does will be fine. I will buy one of whatever comes out of this....maybe two or three.
 
Hi TH232,

We generally used fixed margins on our products. We feel that to "charge as much as the market will bear" is "to bite the hand that feeds you".

We will monitor mfg costs, add a fair margin and go from there. Each steel will be a different price as the cost of the steel is different and processing costs are different. On imported pieces (ZDP, Cowry, AUS-10, etc) we will base price on costs. Cost will be a "net price", no discouts. Kelly is working out the logistics.

All the pieces will be pre-ordered/sold.

Hopefully there is enough interest worldwide to keep the project going.

Hi Bigbcustom, I think .125 or 3mm (domestic or imported) will be a good all around thickness to work with.

sal
 
matthewb5016 said:
Would it be fair to say that if you sign up and buy the first one that you`ll be guaranteed a shot at the next offerings ?? Will there be a sign on for this scheme at all ? What sort of timeframe are we looking at before production begins on the first batch ?

Cheers Sal and many thanks !!
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Hey SAL do you have any Idea on these questions mate ???
 
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