Steel quality and snobbism.

[cziv]

Morning & Merry Christmas. Skimming over this thread & hoping that there isn't a

 

[Ken44]

This thread has gotten interesting.....

I would say people should use what they want and there are really no bad steels, just different in one way or another.

The reality is that some steels do in fact perform better than others do or may do better at a given task than another, but it's really up to the end user to decide for themselves what might work best for them.

I've only read this last page, but..... This^

 

[demoteamone]

The all Idea of snobbism is that make ppl feel good, the idea of that type of steel can take more abuse than others its good....but not necessarily responds the need forse, just responds the feeling, good...Possession !

 

[Ankerson]

There are a lot of misconceptions about steels and how they perform or the quality of them ect.

Most of that seems to come from (Enter Custom Knife here) in (Enter Steel here) and they perform extremely well because of the whole package, that's design, HT, blade geometry ect.

That for the most part doesn't translate over to production knives because they are made for the masses in a production envirement.

There is also a lot of other things that seem to effect the whole steel snobbery thing, or should I say the reverse steel snobbery such as cost (The Big one) so we tend to see statements like (enter simple steel here) is just as good or better than (enter Super steel here). So we see a lot of that on the forums, most of that is due to the lower cost and nothing more no matter what people try to say or how they try and spin it.

Nobody can turn 1095 into CPM 10V or AUS-8 into S110V and it doesn't matter who does the HT.

In my testing I have seen some things that most people just wouldn't believe unless they saw it 1st hand, but I test a lot of knives, and Customs.

All I will say is we can't compare Production knives to Custom knives in any way.

 

[unit]

I've only read this last page, but..... This^

The big thing I'd like to add to the idea of use what you want, is the idea that there is more to a knife than the steel...and modern steels allow for geometry that historical steels did not. In this regard there is little comparison when you start talking performance of the knife as a whole.

For those of us that USE a knife, we know why we insist on what we insist on.

 

[redsquid2]

I think I'm with you on this. I would rather have a knife made of properly hardened D2 than anything else. Keep it simple; if my grandfather could butcher a hog with hard tool steel, I'm sure it will cut all the cardboard I need to cut.

Still, I have a fetish for hand-crafted items. There is nothing like them. If it's a real pretty knife, and an individual used his own eyes and hands to make it that way, I will pay more for it.

 

[gooeytek]

I use super steels simply because they are better. I spend my days chopping up knives made from lesser steel than the ones I carry. I'm allergic to knives that don't use super steel.

 

[JBS TOOLMAKER]

I haven't read all of this but I agree with a lot of the opinions. As a maker here's my outlook. On the positive side, the engineering of super steels is a wonderful thing in our search for the perfect " do it all " blade steel. I hope we find it before someone invents the light sabre. And yes it will happen. D-2 works just fine for me. On the negative side it seems that every time a new super steel comes out there are xx amount of production knife companies that have to have it. No matter how it performs. These things tend to move in trends, only the strong ones survive. My personal opinion is, if you want a good knife made from the newest super steel( if it's availible to the public) please buy custom. You will get the true full potential of xxxx steel from a maker you trust.

 

[crom]

I could probably get by just fine with my Vic Soldier but I love my s60v Blur just the same. Now I'm out to go whack the crap out of my RD7 in 5160 fir the he'll of it.

 

[hardheart]

the perfect " do it all " blade steel

That's any blade steel. Polish it, sharpen it coarse, serrate it, make it it thicker, make it thinner, oil it, DLC it, whatever. Knife chores are not very taxing on steel. If it gets dull, which every single steel on the planet will do at some point, then sharpen it, which every single knife on the planet will need at some point if it gets used. There are D2 choppers, O1 dive knives, H1 fighters, etc.

 

[ThePharce]

I use super steels simply because they are better. I spend my days chopping up knives made from lesser steel than the ones I carry. I'm allergic to knives that don't use super steel.

Heh, you do realize that not so long ago, AUS8 was considered a 'super steel' ,right?

 

[Tim-Gabz]

I should like to point out:- yes there are some really poor steels and where there is a $ there is someone trying to sell a knife made of junk steel. Heck even my brother (chronic bargain hunter) admits that.

I have yet to buy a phone, SMS and calls thank you very much on forcefully donated phones.Give me $1000 for buying a phone and I would return with a $10.00 Nokia and a $990.00 knife. A colleague gave me her spare nokia whatever that can do internet and email. Email - fine but internet noooooh thank you.

When it comes to a steel I just don't like carbon due to rusting. Unfortunately stainless steels have a way to go to meet the performance of a well forged carbon blade. My wallet would need to be alot healthier as well. Fortunately I don't have to work with knives all day, but one can notice that the top chef has the best knives whilst the lower chefs (poorer as well) have to do loads more work with cheaper ones. Much like an office where the boss has all the really mod notebooks and ipads yet his workers have to slave on older models to do all his bidding....... Life's a bitch but I want to be the top guy with the best knives - doing nothing. Sigh I plod on with my outdated pc whilst my boss has some neat electronic toys

 

[Bo T]

To each their own. I do not think it is snobism. There is a cost/benefit and if someone is willing to pay for added benefit, they should.

Personally, I think that I agree with the OP in that, personally, I like the lower cost ($$) associated with my 1095, 12C27, and INOX knives relative to the cost for similar patterns in modern materials. For myself, the increase in performance (and I believe, in most cases there is an increase) does not warrant the (usually) high increase in cost.

 

[davek14]

There is also a lot of other things that seem to effect the whole steel snobbery thing, or should I say the reverse steel snobbery such as cost (The Big one) so we tend to see statements like (enter simple steel here) is just as good or better than (enter Super steel here). So we see a lot of that on the forums, most of that is due to the lower cost and nothing more no matter what people try to say or how they try and spin it.

Nobody can turn 1095 into CPM 10V or AUS-8 into S110V and it doesn't matter who does the HT.

All very true, the whole post. Thing is, I couldn't bring myself to drop a $100 knife in my back pocket and use it hard at work.

When I buy a knife for my "niche", I DO want to get the best steel for the money I spend. The factors of steel and blade geometry can be easily researched. On the all important heat treat you can only go by what peoples experience with the maker is. Thus we get on boards like this and endlessly discuss our experiences with various knives and steels.

I find the subject fascinating and have learned much from the various good folks on this board. I like "steel snobs", I've learned a lot from them.

 

[cziv]

Heh, you do realize that not so long ago, AUS8 was considered a 'super steel' ,right?

Ya know the way Cold Steel's people run that stuff, I'd place it in the lower end of the super steel category. Did you see CrimsonTideShooter's video of rolling S35VN after a few rope cuts? CS's AUS8 passed that and was still slicing phone book pages! I think he did some coax push cutting with it too. Very sharp edge on those Voyagers.

 

[timberweasel]

I think it's safe to say there are many different reasons and attractions to knife collecting. Some folks might pay big bucks for a knife that isn't made of metal at all... such as historical artifacts made of stone or bone. Along this vein, I think knives made of reclaimed materials are pretty interesting: salvaged leaf-springs from a vehicle, old farm implements, meteors, etc. The point is that different knife-collectors may enjoy a variety of attributes: the history, the steel, the maker/manufacturer, the scale materials... it's all good.

I think we're all pretty darn lucky to have a place like BladeForums where we can discuss and explore the different aspects of our common hobby. :thumbup:

 

[gooeytek]

Heh, you do realize that not so long ago, AUS8 was considered a 'super steel' ,right?

oh absolutely. That's just the nature of progress. Better stuff gets developed that outdoes the current top ranker. Gotta have the best, what kind of snob would I be if I didn't?

 

[Ankerson]

All very true, the whole post. Thing is, I couldn't bring myself to drop a $100 knife in my back pocket and use it hard at work.

When I buy a knife for my "niche", I DO want to get the best steel for the money I spend. The factors of steel and blade geometry can be easily researched. On the all important heat treat you can only go by what peoples experience with the maker is. Thus we get on boards like this and endlessly discuss our experiences with various knives and steels.

I find the subject fascinating and have learned much from the various good folks on this board. I like "steel snobs", I've learned a lot from them.

The important thing is that whatever you are using is that it works for you. :thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

I haven't read all of this but I agree with a lot of the opinions. As a maker here's my outlook. On the positive side, the engineering of super steels is a wonderful thing in our search for the perfect " do it all " blade steel. I hope we find it before someone invents the light sabre. And yes it will happen. D-2 works just fine for me. On the negative side it seems that every time a new super steel comes out there are xx amount of production knife companies that have to have it. No matter how it performs. These things tend to move in trends, only the strong ones survive. My personal opinion is, if you want a good knife made from the newest super steel( if it's availible to the public) please buy custom. You will get the true full potential of xxxx steel from a maker you trust.

Very true statement there in bold.

To get the maximum performance out of any steel Custom is the way to go because there are some craftsmen out there that really know how to get the most out of the steels they use and with their designs the knives will perform well beyond anything that any production maker could ever produce. That's the main benefit of having a true custom knife that is made just for you to do what you want it to do, not for the masses.

Research however is important as most of the Custom Makers have their own Niche....

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'm of the opinion today that heat treatment is more important than steel choice. Steel choice is still important, but much less so than heat treatment. A poor steel given a good heat treatment will almost always outperform a knife made from good steel, but given a poor heat treatment. High quality materials only benefit from high quality treatment and application. And virtually all cutlery-grade steels already perform at a level beyond the actual needs of most individuals if they're treated well.

Those who want the best pay for the best, and that's totally fine. But "boring" steel gets the job done too, and shouldn't be looked down on just because better materials exist.