Steel quality and snobbism.

It's not about being a snob; it's about being discriminating. There's a difference. Try skinning 5 deer out with that Ikea knife and then go prepare a fire with it. Then skin 5 more out and do the same fire prep with my custom 52100 hunter. Then come back and post the same thread.

Do that with an Busse Skeleton Warden and then repeat it with an Izula. Then come back and tell us you found huge differences in performance.

You won't. That's what I'm talking about.

I find kind of funny seeing some people here feeling attacked just because I don't share their religious knife-beliefs. You should buy whatever rocks your boat, I am NOT criticizing your choices, but at least allow me to have and express my opinion without risking a lynching.
 
And you have the nerve to call some holiday vacation trip a true survival situation? Puh-leeeeezzz...

Due to my military background...

Cool lets whip 'em out and e-measure 'em. No, I never did call it a "survival situation". It's a canoe trip. A survival situation is where you screw up and get in trouble. No one volunteers for a real world life or death survival situation. I just prefer to not sharpen my knives as often when using them out in the field. But tell me again why "none of the users here need good steels" and how it's just snobbery.

The ESEE edge rolled in the course of a weekend from chopping fish. Big surprise, 1095 at 58 may not be the ultimate knife for that. But what do I know, I better ask you how those knives fair in a combat situation of opening MREs.

Congrats chodesmith, you've made varsity ignore list.
 
The ESEE edge rolled in the course of a weekend from chopping fish. Big surprise, 1095 at 58 may not be the ultimate knife for that. But what do I know, I better ask you how those knives fair in a combat situation of opening MREs.

Said the weekend warrior. LOL.

Congrats chodesmith, you've made varsity ignore list.

So when you fail to find valid arguments to debate you resort to name calling and ignore lists. Okay, sir. How very mature of you.
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I carry several knives none sharing the same steel. I loved the performance of my custom carbon blade made by a Master Blade Smith (Note: no virgins were sacrificed in it's making) but it is not rust free. I have some spare FB113(?) laminated carbon blades with awsome cutting capabilty - they are sitting in a box, they are not rust free. I have realised my desire is to have a stainless that performs like a Mastersmith blade.... Still looking. For daggers and other knives for brutalising people but otherwise not needed for work, edge retention is not essential.

I have a B@tknife in 8cr13MoV and it is good at what it does, the steel is mediocre but it works well.

12c27 is nice for edc as it is easy to sharpen and gets very sharp. I use it alot in the kitchen. But it is mediocre on edge retention.

VG10 laminate is expensive, sharp and very good edge retention. It is harder to sharpen and whilst excellent for many people who know knives a bugger for people who battle to sharpen knives.

The fewer the knives I carry the moe I would insist on them being a better steel. I travel alot and they need to be stainless and able to handle acacia wood. I have D2 and although not fully stainless it is very tough.
 
True. Everything you said is true. We don't Need super steels.

We don't need cell phones either. But guess what; I won't be leaving my house today w/o my iphone.
 
I love the scenario we paint for survival situations.

a) Scenario planning and role playing is key to ensuring better odds when the time comes to sort the men from the boys.

b) Preparedness and awareness can most often change a bad situation from turning into a survival situation. So the good guy gets to fix his car/boat in the snow/rain/war and get home before there is a crisis.

The one reason the SAK is the predominant survival tool is that it makes itself useful & convenient and is most likely to be carried when the balloon goes up.

Who here would prefer a tractor for bush travel when they can afford a Jeep Cherokee?




Any one do the edged blades for SAKs in VG10?
 
We don't need cell phones either. But guess what; I won't be leaving my house today w/o my iphone.

The question is not whether you need a cell phone or not. I was just asking if you need an $800 cell phone or, maybe (just maybe) a $400 one will do the job more than adequately.

Do you need a cluster of supercomputers to surf the Net and posting on forums? Because even the cheapest laptop will do that and much, much, much more.

Anyway, seeing how some people react whenever they feel someone is "challenging" their beliefs (I am NOT, I' just expressing my own) I'll leave this thread here because the whole thing is turning into something nasty.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but keeping an open mind is always a good thing.
 
Anyway, seeing how some people react whenever they feel someone is "challenging" their beliefs (I am NOT, I' just expressing my own) I'll leave this thread here because the whole thing is turning into something nasty.

No one is attacking you for your opinions, on the contrary it's you who are arguing with people who are merely stating their opinions in response to yours. The negative reactions come when you refuse to accept their opinions and try to find ways to invalidate and to refute their personal stands.
 
Who here would prefer a tractor for bush travel when they can afford a Jeep Cherokee?

If I had to travel through a REALLY rough terrain I'd rather have a Toyota HDJ-80 or a Land Rover Defender than any of the newer models. Modern cars tend to malfunction when things go south. Another proof than fancier is not always the best choice. :D

Happy Holidays to you all, people.
 
The negative reactions come when you refuse to accept their opinions and try to find ways to invalidate and to refute their personal stands.

So, either a agree with them or I will be lynched. Because it's them who are right about eeeeeverything. Ooooookay.

So much for diversity of opinion.

Like I said, I guess it would be better to leave things here. We all made our points and, clearly, won't find a middle ground.

It's been a pleasure to debate with you all. Happy Holidays.
 
If I had to travel through a REALLY rough terrain I'd rather have a Toyota HDJ-80 or a Land Rover Defender than any of the newer models. Modern cars tend to malfunction when things go south. Another proof than fancier is not always the best choice. :D

Happy Holidays to you all, people.

See? You're doing it again. You are trying to poke holes in somebody's opinions. If as you say to keep an open mind, then you can also be willing to accept other's POV's. You are getting negative reactions because you are trying to poke holes in their opinions to make yours seem more reasonable.
 
So, either a agree with them or I will be lynched. Because it's them who are right about eeeeeverything. Ooooookay.

So much for diversity of opinion.

Like I said, I guess it would be better to leave things here. We all made our points and, clearly, won't find a middle ground.

It's been a pleasure to debate with you all. Happy Holidays.

Nobody's lynching anybody here. You presented your opinions, they presented theirs. Middle ground can seldom be found with such diverse views. You say you are debating but when a contrary view is presented you declare that you are being attacked and even say you will be lynched, don't play the victim here dude. I was enjoying this thread until it became a pissing contest.
 
Nobody's lynching anybody here. You presented your opinions, they presented theirs. Middle ground can seldom be found with such diverse views. You say you are debating but when a contrary view is presented you declare that you are being attacked and even say you will be lynch, don't play the victim here dude. I was enjoying this thread until it became a pissing contest.

OK. I hear you and you certainly have a point.
 
lol, screw this thread. I own a Sebenza and I carry a Spyderco Ambitious 99% of the time on my person just, because.

My standpoint has always been, "What if shit happens?"

Shit could happen. You could get in a car wreck today and have to cut yourself from your seatbelt. You could be on a plane, plane goes down and you search the cargo hold for your best knives for survival. You end up stranded in a forest and need some quality steel for survival.

Who knows, shit happens. I wouldn't want to be without my best on a day when it does.
 
Seems like these type of threads always have strong opinions and I usually, and this time too, don't think that anyone is necessarily wrong. How many times have we seen the "What's the best knife to take in a survival situation" thread, and how many time in those threads do we hear " the one you happen to have with you" answer.

It's actually a really good answer because you don't really know when you will be stuck in that type of situation. I know there are a lot of hardcore guys that keep go bags and kits in their car and could most likely be prepared for the apocalypse but that is probably not the norm.

I am super happy with my high end super steels and just about as equally happy with my well made lesser (if you will) steels that have been heat treated and ground properly. I think there is room for everything in the realm of knife collecting and use and I (personally) appreciate all ends of the spectrum. Some do, some don't and it should not negate anyone's thoughts or opinions on the matter.

I do think however that is someone collects within their means that their knives should not be discounted as useless and inferior but I know some folks have strong opinions on the subject. Oh hell, I rambling now. Merry Christmas all!! :)
 
Let's see. Right now the only super steels that I own are Elmax (absolutely love this) in a ZT 0551 and S30V in a Spyderco Millitary. Yes the Millie does everything I need it too, but the Elmax knife just far outperforms the S30V. Edge retention, wear resistence, you name it, and in my mind the Elmax wins hands down. Now some of the differences could be due to blade geometry, I don't know, I haven't really used enough different knives to have an informed opinion yet.

For me, the journey I have been taking in knife collecting has been not only in the acquiring of material thing (knives) but also one of knowledge. In the past 6 months I have gone from not being able to sharpen at all, to regularly having knives that can easily shave. The progression from simple steels, like no-named "Surgical Steel" found on Frost Cutlery knives, to high-end super steels, like my Elmax ZT 0551 has seemed like a natural progression. I've also learned to do many other things I couldn't before, because I didn't believe it was possible with the crappy Chinese knock-off knives that I had from Big 5, and I am soon going to start making my own knives. Why? Because that is what this hobby has been to me, a natural progression from the crappy steels, and all the stuff they couldn't do, to the super steels, and all the stuff they enable you to do.

I now realize though, that it may not be the super steel itself that allows the higher-end knives to outperform the $6 gas station knife, but the superior craftsmanship, engineering and the proper heat-treat that goes into the higher-end knives. I love my ZT 0551, it is my most favored knife in my EDC rotation at this point, and while the 0550 is the exact same with S35VN instead of elmax, I wouldn't trade it or replace it at all. It's not only the blade steel, it is also the knowledge that I have a knife that only about 1500 were made of. That I think is another part of the allure of super-steels, their limited availability. Yes, I know that you could get the Lion Spy from Spyderco, but it's not worth the $350 asking point to me, but it is to somebody, which is why it was made.

I may have gotten lost in my post, and I possibly may have not made my point, but the end message I have here is that for me, knife collecting is a journey of joy and knowledge. It is best shared with friends on this forums who understand our obsession, but it is also for me a singular journey outside of this board. One that where the lessons learned, must be learned from experience and experimentation, because reading about how "awesome" the 0551 was or watching a video on youtube, really doesn't encapsulate the experience and joy of owning and using this knife or any other knife for that matter.

Shit could happen. You could get in a car wreck today and have to cut yourself from your seatbelt. You could be on a plane, plane goes down and you search the cargo hold for your best knives for survival. You end up stranded in a forest and need some quality steel for survival.

IV.

You know, watching that part of Lost, where Locke whips out his briefcase of knives, is quite possibly what got me into this obsession. Your right, shit could happen.
 
Quote:

The problem of steel snobbery only come into play when the lesser steels are sneered at or perfectly good designs are passed over because they use AUS-8 or 440A, or even 420HC.

**************************************************************

Thing is, I see a big difference between the 440A and such used on many (maybe most) knives sold to the general public and a well heat reated, cryo AUS8. Good AUS8, 12C27, or a good carbon steel are good enough for me and people I work with think of me as a "steel snob".

They do fine with the run of the mill cr*p out there. I spend a bit more and put more time into my purchase and get a little better.

If someone else wants to spend more time and money on their purchase then that's fine too.

I wanna try some D2 next.
 
It's been said before, but I'll say it again: there is a real difference in the performance of different steels. Can you skin a deer out with an Ikea stainless kitchen knife with barbie-doll plastic handles? Sure... but why would you, when there are so much better choices available?

It's not about being a snob; it's about being discriminating. There's a difference. Try skinning 5 deer out with that Ikea knife and then go prepare a fire with it. Then skin 5 more out and do the same fire prep with my custom 52100 hunter. Then come back and post the same thread.

I've mentioned before several times on this forum that I've got a Cold Steel Pendleton hunting knife that cost $12 and is made out of Krupps stainless. And yes, it's a great knife! And yes, I use it! But it doesn't compare to a better knife made of better steel, and that's just a fact.
What does 52100 have to do with being a steel snob? It's a low alloy steel that's been around forever. The most significant difference from 1095 is 1% chromium, which is below the 3% for primary carbide formation. The Ikea knife probably has the same or higher wear resistance.

If you like 52100, 5160, 9260, D2, O1, A2, L6, 8670, 440C, S7, A8, M2, VG10, N690, 154CM, and about a hundred other alloys, I personally see nothing 'snobbish' about that, because those steels are common, ingot cast, old, under 2% carbon, and under 20% carbide volume. S30V is too commonplace for snobbery, the as quenched hardness is below the working hardness of many HSS, and the carbide volume is less than old ATS-34.

Can't be a snob driving a Cadillac if there are Bentleys down the block.

How is that for a steel snob?
 
This thread has gotten interesting.....

I would say people should use what they want and there are really no bad steels, just different in one way or another.

The reality is that some steels do in fact perform better than others do or may do better at a given task than another, but it's really up to the end user to decide for themselves what might work best for them.
 
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