Steel quality and snobbism.

I like to go for a knife with reasonable steel for the money. A well heat treated AUS8, 12C27, etc., etc.. I can't stand many of the mass produced knives I see.

Rough Rider has a fair 440A equivalent that I don't like a lot (although I own one and use it).

So I go for mid-range steel. I like carbon steel and want a stainless at least that good.

People I know think of me as a steel snob.

Do ya see?

If I read that correctly, everything that 440C and 12C27 can't do goes straight into the realm of insanity and surreal?


Me too :D I like thin edges and prefer ones that hold more than an hour. Crazy, surreal stuff....
 
I was with an Inuit guy (eskimo for all you non Canucks out there) who was cleaning a seal on the ice with a Mora. I showed him the Spydie Military I had with me. He said "Hmmm, crazy knife." and smiled and went back to work on the seal. I told him it was top of the line but a pain to sharpen. He grinned and said "Then what good is it?" It's all about perspective. This guy touched up his Mora every ten minutes or so with a kitchen steel and used that razor sharp edge every day. He wanted 'lower end steels' because of the uses and conditions he worked in. Anyone bragging about super steels around this guy would have been thought of as not very bright.
 
I was with an Inuit guy (eskimo for all you non Canucks out there) who was cleaning a seal on the ice with a Mora. I showed him the Spydie Military I had with me. He said "Hmmm, crazy knife." and smiled and went back to work on the seal. I told him it was top of the line but a pain to sharpen. He grinned and said "Then what good is it?" It's all about perspective. This guy touched up his Mora every ten minutes or so with a kitchen steel and used that razor sharp edge every day. He wanted 'lower end steels' because of the uses and conditions he worked in. Anyone bragging about super steels around this guy would have been thought of as not very bright.

Good thing we're not all around this guy then. ;)
 
I was with an Inuit guy (eskimo for all you non Canucks out there) who was cleaning a seal on the ice with a Mora. I showed him the Spydie Military I had with me. He said "Hmmm, crazy knife." and smiled and went back to work on the seal. I told him it was top of the line but a pain to sharpen. He grinned and said "Then what good is it?" It's all about perspective. This guy touched up his Mora every ten minutes or so with a kitchen steel and used that razor sharp edge every day. He wanted 'lower end steels' because of the uses and conditions he worked in. Anyone bragging about super steels around this guy would have been thought of as not very bright.

Too bad you didn't talk him into trying it, that would have been interesting as well.
 
I was with an Inuit guy (eskimo for all you non Canucks out there) who was cleaning a seal on the ice with a Mora. I showed him the Spydie Military I had with me. He said "Hmmm, crazy knife." and smiled and went back to work on the seal. I told him it was top of the line but a pain to sharpen. He grinned and said "Then what good is it?" It's all about perspective. This guy touched up his Mora every ten minutes or so with a kitchen steel and used that razor sharp edge every day. He wanted 'lower end steels' because of the uses and conditions he worked in. Anyone bragging about super steels around this guy would have been thought of as not very bright.

You should have also explained that the trade off was that he could clean about 6-7 seals without needing to touch up that knife too. The perspective you provided was only partially complete.
 
The old adadge "There's nothing new under the sun" applies here in spades.. When it comes to new and different, if it can be imagined it's been "done" already with respect to patterns, blade shape, grinds, handle material (and combinations thereof) etc. The one thing that is dynamic and ever-changing is technology ie: the latest and greatest new "super steels" and heat treatment. 30 years ago
440c was the 'big kid on the block, then 154cm / ats34. Later D2 became was 're-discovered' and but the likes of Bob Dozier made it legendary. Fast forward to the 90's and CRK made S30v the steel of choice. I've heard it said that "fishing lures are designed more to catch fishermen than to catch fish" and IMO the same thing can be said about knives.... The up-side is that these choices are out there for those who want them and that is a 'good' thing....
 
I did. He liked it, just wasn't overly impressed. He DID like the thumbhole as I recall.

Cool! Oddly enough "we'd have hoped" for him to comment on it's cutting abilities and he notices a feature instead...lol...:D
 
If I read that correctly, everything that 440C and 12C27 can't do goes straight into the realm of insanity and surreal?

Not quite far off. Even I have recognized that knife collecting can become an obsession. I would wager that there's more than one person reading this who has caught heck from their spouse over knife purchases (or guns, cars, motorcycles, cameras, watches, etc.).

Quite a few of us here are on a quest for the best of a lot of things, and while that doesn't qualify us for a room in the looney bin, it can make those who don't understand look at us funny. It might even be that we are serial knife buyers and should perhaps start leaving messages scrawled on B&M countertops saying, ''Stop me before I buy again!''


Me too :D I like thin edges and prefer ones that hold more than an hour. Crazy, surreal stuff....

That's nice, but I'm old and have lots of time to sharpen my knife. Speaking of which, have I ever shown you my collection of knife sharpening implements?:eek:
 
...This guy touched up his Mora every ten minutes or so with a kitchen steel and used that razor sharp edge every day. He wanted 'lower end steels' because of the uses and conditions he worked in. Anyone bragging about super steels around this guy would have been thought of as not very bright.
Ok, fine let's examine the the facts then. Since the story doesn't specify what kind of steel was, I'm assuming it was simple grooved steel, i.e. not abrasive. All it does, realigns deformed edge.
Given that, you can restore sharp edge very few times, after that metal fatigue settles in and the deformed sections break off. Ergo, you end up with a dull knife that is in the need or serious sharpening. Unless he was carrying a sharpener on him(besides the steeling rod that is) then he'd have to run home leaving the seal in the wild, or continue working with a practically useless knife.
Plus, because it was relatively soft steel the edge had to be thicker(compared to hypothetical super steel). At that rate our Inuite friend would've needed new knife every year or so. I'd say not very practical for a budget minded person.
If the stick was abrasive material, then keeping the knife sharp would've been easier, but the wear of the steel would be even greater. But ok, for simplicity assume it's the same knife per year...
So, what we have is waste of time(touchup every 10 minutes), waste of energy(since thick edge requires more effort), which btw out there in the cold, harsh environment is no insignificant matter, increased wear on the knife edge and eventually decreased lifespan of the knife.
So, in the end, I'd say he was at a loss on all accounts, except that "ease of sharpening", and even there, I can argue that touchups and minor edge restorations are easier and far less frequent on those super hard super steels than on the soft, low wear resistance alloys. The only time when super steel sharpening difficulty matters is when significant amount metal needs to be removed, which doesn't happen as often as with low grade steels.
I can not imagine for a person for whom knife is such an important toom, maintaining it once in a while even for 2-3 hours is such a big deal, considering all the "savings" he'd get.
Like Ron said, if you'd given him your knife to clean few seals w/o need ot touchups, may be he'd think differently :) Otherwise, his assessment was based on ignorance and incomplete info. Hardly a good argument.
 
You have to understand that non-knife people don't care about extreme performance, and tossing out $10 every year for a new knife(Moras are cheap) isn't such a bad thing for them.
 
Not quite far off. Even I have recognized that knife collecting can become an obsession.
One can collect 420 or whatever steels just as well. There is perfectly rational reasoning and explanation for having super steels, and just like collecting budget steel knives doesn't make knife collecting insanity, super steels don't make that happen either.

I would wager that there's more than one person reading this who has caught heck from their spouse over knife purchases (or guns, cars, motorcycles, cameras, watches, etc.).
Never been there, but I think wive's argument were not why buy ZDP-189 when you can do exactly the same with 12C27 ;) Either way, how does that prove super steel requirements are insane or snobbish? And how many of those wives had closet full of shoes?

That's nice, but I'm old and have lots of time to sharpen my knife. Speaking of which, have I ever shown you my collection of knife sharpening implements?:eek:
Well, I can't say I have enough of free time, but I still find it, and super steels do make things easier. No, you haven't show the collection.[/quote]



You have to understand that non-knife people don't care about extreme performance, and tossing out $10 every year for a new knife(Moras are cheap) isn't such a bad thing for them.
Yeah, I know that very well. I know that bunch of people simply toss away dull knives and buy new one. Still, that doesn't affect neither super or whatever steel performance properties, nor the need for the progress. Nor can it be used as an argument in the super vs. other steels.
My point was, one of the frequent arguments for budget steels is that, "budget". On the other hand, for serious use like you said, replace knives once a year or more often, hardly a saving.
 
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Depending on the Mora and the Millie, it could take up to 25 years at a knife per year to buy enough Moras to match the price of a Millie. How much performance does he need, and how much does he actually get. Case, ESEE, Kabar, EKA, Henckels, etc stay in business while shortchanging people with worthless steel that reduces years from the lifetime of the users and leads to arthritis, black lung, and cataracts.
 
Depending on the Mora and the Millie, it could take up to 25 years at a knife per year to buy enough Moras to match the price of a Millie. How much performance does he need, and how much does he actually get. Case, ESEE, Kabar, EKA, Henckels, etc stay in business while shortchanging people with worthless steel that reduces years from the lifetime of the users and leads to arthritis, black lung, and cataracts.

...and don't forget bald babies with no teeth.
 
Case, ESEE, Kabar, EKA, Henckels, etc stay in business while shortchanging people with worthless steel that reduces years from the lifetime of the users and leads to arthritis, black lung, and cataracts.
ESEE uses a lot of 1095. I am very confused by your statement. How does 1095 cause arthritis, black lung and cataracts? How will 1095 take years off my life?
 
ESEE uses a lot of 1095. I am very confused by your statement. How does 1095 cause arthritis, black lung and cataracts? How will 1095 take years off my life?
Because you have to sharpen 1095. The manual labor of stooping over sharpening equipment will cause cartilage breakdown in all joints, hence the arthritis. The rapid breakdown of the pitifully inadequate steel mixed with the copious amounts of sharpening abrasive in the air from your constant resharpening of your ever-dull blades will lead to black lung. Having to sharpen 24-7 even in poor lighting conditions will cause cataracts. Think of your health, buy S90V or better. Definitely avoid VG10, Aogami Super, S30V, CPM154, Infi, 3V, D2, and all other steels lacking the wear resistance necessary to do what stone, glass, bronze, and iron did for centuries.
 
ESEE uses a lot of 1095. I am very confused by your statement. How does 1095 cause arthritis, black lung and cataracts? How will 1095 take years off my life?

Because you have to sharpen 1095. The manual labor of stooping over sharpening equipment will cause cartilage breakdown in all joints, hence the arthritis. The rapid breakdown of the pitifully inadequate steel mixed with the copious amounts of sharpening abrasive in the air from your constant resharpening of your ever-dull blades will lead to black lung. Having to sharpen 24-7 even in poor lighting conditions will cause cataracts. Think of your health, buy S90V or better. Definitely avoid VG10, Aogami Super, S30V, CPM154, Infi, 3V, D2, and all other steels lacking the wear resistance necessary to do what stone, glass, bronze, and iron did for centuries.

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