Strider Knives, Game Over!

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The photo on POWNetwork is off ACE Rifle Stocks gallery page -
http://www.riflestocks.com/ActionGallery.htm

Marine Corp. Sniper (ret.) and co-owner of Strider Knives (center kneeling), poses with an ACE M4 SOCOM and his SRT team.
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- it's not a class photo of anything other than the SRT team he's a member of.

As for "People in High Places with Impressive Resumes Knowing What We Don't," don't forget this guy who was curator of the SEAL Museum and sat on board meetings for 5 years -
http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/news/950700.html

Being around people who have been there, doesn't mean that person actually did what they claimed. Impressive resumes don't guarantee immunity to liars. Resources don't mean anything if nobody bothers to use them.

Like Horned Toad said, it should be easy to come up with proof of class dates, etc, and bogus graduation certs are easy to verify / disprove. I don't know anything about the Marine Corps, so I can't say what being a Sniper entails. This article -
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/8541.htm
seems to suggest that Scout Snipers have a specific MOS of 8541 which should be verifiable. EDIT: Apparently Marine Scout Snipers have a new MOS and 8541 is outdated.
 
Ok my bad on the photo call. I just remembered seeing one there. Can't say I gave it much of a look other than to recognize it was there though.

Pretty interesting links there Spark.

Scary too actually.

STR
 
Spark said:
Being around people who have been there, doesn't mean that person actually did what they claimed. Impressive resumes don't guarantee immunity to liars. Resources don't mean anything if nobody bothers to use them.
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I agree 100% but I would think that as long as this has been going someone with some know would run their own checks. I doubt I am the only one that had that idea. Although I can say I my idea was to get him verified on our site and then tell everyone else to pound sand. It didn’t really work out that way though and we are still waiting for info like everyone else.
 
You covered the stuff Bronco left out here pretty well.

Spark said:
Justabuyer - If you are worried about how this "fracture the community" I'd suggest you lay the blame not with the people who are ticked off about being lied to, but with the people who did the lying.

As for "doing it over and over again" that's again nobody's fault except the people who's lies keep getting found out. The last thread had statements such as this:


Nyeti posted on another site:
Now POWNetwork.org says that Duane Dwyer / Poland wasn't even a sniper, much less with combat kills. So it's not like there hasn't been a bunch of misinformation being repeated over and over again.

You, specifically, tried laying the blame for this mess on me by complaining that I was somehow damaging the value of your investments when I had nothing to do with this.

If you don't like how this topic keeps coming up, why do you keep making it involve more people and drag it out as long as possible?
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Horned Toad said:
I agree 100% but I would think that as long as this has been going someone with some know would run their own checks. I doubt I am the only one that had that idea. Although I can say I my idea was to get him verified on our site and then tell everyone else to pound sand. It didn’t really work out that way though and we are still waiting for info like everyone else.
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I also agree fully with you. You'd think someone would run checks. That's part of the problem though; good people don't expect others to take advantage of their nature, and bad people prey on this. When you have two or more people "verifying" each other's claims, then the effect is magnified. After all, if someone you know vouches for someone you've never met, your instinct is to trust your buddy. If the new guy knows the lingo and doesn't screw up, you believe they are who they say they are.

Unfortunately, as it turns out, when the checks do get run, & the truth seems to be not quite what's been claimed, and the house of cards starts coming down. The longer the lies have been believed, the more people have egg on their face.

In the last thread I linked to this article on con games / fraud by a reformed fraudster: http://www.whitecollarfraud.com/1583432.html

It's good information & very interesting regardless.
 
There was a widely reported case in Texas a few years ago that involved a reputed SEAL veteran and an alleged Special Forces veteran who had set up a Vietnam museum in San Antonio. Turned out that the SEAL had never even been in the Navy, and the Green Beret had never been in either Special Forces or Vietnam. The irony of this situation was that the guys had done a tremendous job of establishing their museum, which proves that they could have done it without misrepresenting themselves.
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I'd say that last statement in the quote above about the irony mentioned on one of the stories in your links Kevin is surely true here as well.

After reading your links I have to say I had no idea that this was such a wide spread occurance. Seems all it takes to be considered legit is to just make yourself part of that 'good ole boy' network and get at least a bro or two to back you up with an oh yeah he is for real and then you are in. Man the ego. I'm reading a book about this now actually that is very spellbinding. Its brand new and all about how the brain lies to us all the time about things and even our own memories, "a mind of its own" How Your Brain Distorts and Decieves by Cordelia Fine. Dr. Fine illustrates the brain's tendency toward self-delusion quite well here.

She refers to it as our "Vain Brain" and goes into startling detail how we all do this to varying degrees. One example that I recall is this. If we look at the world of automobile drivers out there and divide them into categories we see that there are excellent drivers, middle of the road drivers and very poor drivers. Obviously not everyone can be in the category of an excellent driver and there are obviously poor drivers. However, when asked where they think they are in this category even very poor drivers place themselves much higher than they would be. Only a very small percentage of the egos asked can be honest with themselves. Thats probably not the best example but it keeps getting better.

I probably should not have mentioned the book because it will give some of these wannabees attorneys a viable defense now for why they lied. :D

STR
 
Justabuyer said:
Bronco,

That was a good post. Its obvious I am a Strider supporter. So I read your post for signs of a personal vendetta, weak logic, disregard for other opinions,
or self aggrandizing focus on the morals and behavior of others. To my surprise I found none of it and I can not fault any of your points. Perfect.
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Thanks to you and Dan for the kind words. Although I may not have explained it as well as I would have liked, I interjected myself into this mess for no other reason than to try and bridge the divide between a bunch of folks whom I think would probably share a great deal in common on just about any other subject you could name.

That being said, I will recuse myself from further discussion on the issue at this point. I have access to no new documentation that anyone else isn't privy to, but my faith in nothing more than the word of a friend leads me to seriously question the possibility that not all the relevant facts are in evidence at this time. And so, I bid all adieu and Merry Christmas.
 
That being said, I will recuse myself from further discussion on the issue at this point. I have access to no new documentation that anyone else isn't privy to, but my faith in nothing more than the word of a friend leads me to seriously question the possibility that not all the relevant facts are in evidence at this time. And so, I bid all adieu and Merry Christmas.
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Its good advice to reserve final judgement Bill. Still though no one can blame anyone either here or elsewhere for voicing concern or questions considering the source of the new information or the past question marks regarding Mick and if they do blame anyone posting here or elsewhere then in my opinion they are not very curious or alert to the facts and the way they can be twisted. I had no idea it was so easy for someone to make themself look so legit looking they could even get a job based on the lies the way I just read at the links Spark gave us. With the frequency of this kind of fraud how can anyone frown upon a conversation of this type when someone comes into question unless they themselves have something to hide or fear?, I mean if all is legit answer the questions straighten it out laugh it off and be done with it. I would be willing to bet that the SEAL Team member that Spark gave us a link to has questioned even legit SEALs a time or two if he felt a hint of suspicion when he first met them. If the SEAL is legit he should not be upset by this in the least IMO. In fact based on what I know now from the reading I just did this should be expected from anyone making such a claim.

STR
 
Spark said:
I also agree fully with you. You'd think someone would run checks. That's part of the problem though; good people don't expect others to take advantage of their nature, and bad people prey on this. When you have two or more people "verifying" each other's claims, then the effect is magnified. After all, if someone you know vouches for someone you've never met, your instinct is to trust your buddy. If the new guy knows the lingo and doesn't screw up, you believe they are who they say they are.

Unfortunately, as it turns out, when the checks do get run, & the truth seems to be not quite what's been claimed, and the house of cards starts coming down. The longer the lies have been believed, the more people have egg on their face.

In the last thread I linked to this article on con games / fraud by a reformed fraudster: http://www.whitecollarfraud.com/1583432.html

It's good information & very interesting regardless.
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I must admit this is true. I knew a detective sergeant who assisted with Defensive tactics training at the academy here. He had several Black belts as well as a very impressive record of military service. This service was as a member of some very elite outfit like the SEALS or Delta Force. He used to show up at the academy every once and awhile in his military uniform and he displayed a chest full of medals and ribbons. He also was a Police Officer in another State prior to his employment in NH and had amassed a boatload of citations for valor, Bravery, Life saving etc. No one ever checked or felt the need to verify, what he said was gospel. To the recuits he walked on water, to other staff he was a true hero and never questioned no matter what he said or did. He told war stories that were amazing and even introduced some tactics he said he taught while in the military. No one checked because it sure looked like he knew what he was doing and never once considered that what he said and did was BS.He was able to train new Police Recuits at the State level for close to three years before it was finally discovered that he was an absolute, 100% full of sh** fake. The guy was a Poser, never once doing anything special when in the service and nothing special in his prior police service beyond racking up complaints and suspensions. No one ever checked during the background, everything said and produced was accepted on it's face and to all he was a freaking hero.
He was outed during a murder trial in which he was the lead Investigator. He lied and lied about his background, even presented fake documents and photographs to support his claims, and had all kinds of bogus training records and certificates making him one of the most advanced homicide investigators in NH. No one in LE ever checked but an Investigator from the defense sure did and the guy was busted after the conviction.
The Supreme Court threw out the conviction, the case is now infamous amongst LE and creates a nightmare for Prosecutors statewide. The guy was prosecuted and convicted of perjury and was of course fired and permanently decertified.
But he fooled everyone for three years and it came as a shock to all. At first no one believed the guy was a poser and that this was all a horrible case of character assassination. NO one ever thought of running checks on this guy in the beginning or at any time thereafter because we figured his department had already done that when they hired him. Turns out they did not because they accepted on face value all the bogus documents he presented and just never inquired because the guy was truly believable. I was as flabergasted with that as I am with this relevation and while I wished it were not true, it was.
I am again floored and while I wished this all to be false and it too a character assassination; it appears to also be fact...................

This was the second time this happened in NH. The first was a guy named Lars Ogren who started in one Dept and was ultimately hired as a Police Chief in another after being a LEO for several years. To all he was a hero, having been a POW in Nam and having gone through horrid tortures and beatings. To all he was the soldier who earned multiple Silver stars and many purple hearts. Everywhere Lars went, the stories followed and all were in awe. He would "reluctantly" tell his stories and all was just glued to and hanging on to every word. I think some in his Dept.'s would salute and then bow when he walked into a room. All his personal vehicles displayed POW plates that are provided to POW's at no cost with all State fees waived. One day he got into a pissing contest was a resident who turned out to be a former Marine. The guy dug and dug and bingo, Lars was a total and absolute freaking fake. He was arrested and prosecuted for lying to get the POW plates and was decertified for ever. I would not be surprised if he is not listed as a fake somewhere on Pownet. No one in LE ever checked his background or records and just accepted all his said.
 
Man - what a terrible story! Nothing profound to add really . . . made me feel bad for all involved. Thanks for the telling, though. "Truth will out," or something like that.

wolfmann601 said:
I must admit this is true. I knew a detective sergeant who assisted with Defensive tactics training at the academy here. He had several Black belts as well as a very impressive record of military service. This service was as a member of some very elite outfit like the SEALS or Delta Force. He used to show up at the academy every once and awhile in his military uniform and he displayed a chest full of medals and ribbons. He also was a Police Officer in another State prior to his employment in NH and had amassed a boatload of citations for valor, Bravery, Life saving etc. No one ever checked or felt the need to verify, what he said was gospel. To the recuits he walked on water, to other staff he was a true hero and never questioned no matter what he said or did. He told war stories that were amazing and even introduced some tactics he said he taught while in the military. No one checked because it sure looked like he knew what he was doing and never once considered that what he said and did was BS.He was able to train new Police Recuits at the State level for close to three years before it was finally discovered that he was an absolute, 100% full of sh** fake. The guy was a Poser, never once doing anything special when in the service and nothing special in his prior police service beyond racking up complaints and suspensions. No one ever checked during the background, everything said and produced was accepted on it's face and to all he was a freaking hero.
He was outed during a murder trial in which he was the lead Investigator. He lied and lied about his background, even presented fake documents and photographs to support his claims, and had all kinds of bogus training records and certificates making him one of the most advanced homicide investigators in NH. No one in LE ever checked but an Investigator from the defense sure did and the guy was busted after the conviction.
The Supreme Court threw out the conviction, the case is now infamous amongst LE and creates a nightmare for Prosecutors statewide. The guy was prosecuted and convicted of perjury and was of course fired and permanently decertified.
But he fooled everyone for three years and it came as a shock to all. At first no one believed the guy was a poser and that this was all a horrible case of character assassination. NO one ever thought of running checks on this guy in the beginning or at any time thereafter because we figured his department had already done that when they hired him. Turns out they did not because they accepted on face value all the bogus documents he presented and just never inquired because the guy was truly believable. I was as flabergasted with that as I am with this relevation and while I wished it were not true, it was.
I am again floored and while I wished this all to be false and it too a character assassination; it appears to also be fact...................

This was the second time this happened in NH. The first was a guy named Lars Ogren who started in one Dept and was ultimately hired as a Police Chief in another after being a LEO for several years. To all he was a hero, having been a POW in Nam and having gone through horrid tortures and beatings. To all he was the soldier who earned multiple Silver stars and many purple hearts. Everywhere Lars went, the stories followed and all were in awe. He would "reluctantly" tell his stories and all was just glued to and hanging on to every word. I think some in his Dept.'s would salute and then bow when he walked into a room. All his personal vehicles displayed POW plates that are provided to POW's at no cost with all State fees waived. One day he got into a pissing contest was a resident who turned out to be a former Marine. The guy dug and dug and bingo, Lars was a total and absolute freaking fake. He was arrested and prosecuted for lying to get the POW plates and was decertified for ever. I would not be surprised if he is not listed as a fake somewhere on Pownet. No one in LE ever checked his background or records and just accepted all his said.
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What was bad for all was the fact that the hundreds of police officers trained by this guy will always face the threat of a lawsuit should they need to use physcial force.
Furthermore, those that worked at the academy or trained for them in the field were so embarrassed by the first Poser and the brunt of many locker room jokes. They also had to "retrain" loads of LEO's and get them to never execute some of the techniques this moron trained them to use eventhough a few were tried and tested and effective.

I was a friends of both guys and really enjoyed thier company. The first hero had a magnetic personality and people were drawn to him. After a few war stories I and others were so proud to say they were friends of this guy. I never spoke to him again after he was busted but did read his name in the papers a few years ago for shooting and killing a hunting partner on a very private and exclusive hunting preserve.
He had to have BS'd someone to even get an invite to the place as only the muck of mucks have access to this place. He was prosecuted for manslaughter but found not guilty after trial. The only penalty for killing his hunting buddy was the loss of his hunting license. I can imagine the stories he is telling about that one!!! I bet he was alone in the rain forest, armed with only a 9mm semi-auto when attacked by a pride of lions, 3 gorillas, 4 tigers, 1 leopard, 9 chimpanzees, and a partridge in a pear tree (Xmas connection). I heard he fired one shot at 350 yards that dropped 2 of the lions as they stood side to side. Wow, my hero!!! :rolleyes:
 
This kind of thing goes on everyday and on a much larger scale than many could imagine, take for instance this guy, Zeke! He is also on the wall of shame at POW Network in the C section under Clark, thats between "B, for Burger" and "D, for Dwyer".


mercenary-lg.jpg


If you learned that the man in this photo -- a professional assassin -- was the head of security at one of our nation’s most vulnerable nuclear facilities, would it trouble you? Or would it sound like one hell of a story?
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Yes, he said, he was one of them -- a “merc,” or mercenary, for Blackwater. He was a sniper. He had been a countersniper for the security details assigned to protect Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan and Paul Bremer, the former American proconsul, in Iraq. He did overwatch, which meant he sat up on rooftops and shot people who looked dangerous. “Hey,” he said, “thirty-seven Al Qaeda and twenty-one Baathists can’t be wrong.” At first, he was blithe on the subject of killing, saying that the Blackwater contract was “perfect for a guy like me -- a thousand bucks a day, and you get to kill people legally.” Then he said that he must be “missing a chromosome or something -- I don’t have the moral firewall that keeps normal people from killing.”
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His military records indicate that although he might have gone to Ranger School, he did not graduate, and although he was assigned to a Ranger battalion, he finished out his career in the 34th Infantry, with an undistinguished rank and without a Ranger tab. There was no career as a Green Beret, as he had told his son; nor had he ever served in Vietnam.
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This is the biggest fish ever shot in a barrel concerning frauds "William E. Clark" who BSed his way into the head of security job at Palasides Nuclear Power Plant in Covert Michigan. The full article is here at Esquire.

http://www.esquire.com/features/mercenary0607
 
The whole concept of trusting someone if someone you trust vouches for him DOES NOT WORK. A smooth talker tells his stories and one guy in the group is convinced, a guy who is perfectly honest himself and likes to think everybody else is too -- then he tells everyone else, "Yeah, he's for real" and they all get fooled by him, and go on to fool others.

There is no need to rely on guesses, whether they're your own guesses or someone else's. There are no classified or lost or falsified or screwed up military records, not for this generation.

We got fooled right here at Bladeforums and it was mostly my fault. Someone I knew to be unquestionably honest told me he knew Ghost6 aka Col. Daniel E. Ness personally and he was genuine, and I told everybody else Ghost6 was for real, and they believed me. Eventually someone didn't just take my word for it, he checked it out and immediately found the whole story was false. The Pentagon had never heard of him and neither had the law enforcement and search & rescue organizations he claimed to have worked for. :o

The fact was my source was unquestionably honest and he was a good judge of men and he did know the phony personally and he had been fooled. It happens all the time.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The whole concept of trusting someone if someone you trust vouches for him DOES NOT WORK. A smooth talker tells his stories and one guy in the group is convinced, a guy who is perfectly honest himself and likes to think everybody else is too -- then he tells everyone else, "Yeah, he's for real" and they all get fooled by him, and go on to fool others.
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I would say except for when the person you trust has been around these people for years. I would suspect that the Ranger community and the special ops community would have a lot in common that in if it a fellow member you trust them 100%. Outsiders are looked at with suspicion because they don’t have that same esprit de corp forged by shared misery. A poser that made claims to civilians would last a lot longer because civilians don’t know what’s the deal and wouldn’t know how to run easy checks or ask some hard question. I know when our site first started we didn’t run checks and I will say we had a few posers slip in under the wire. The forum was small and everyone went on trust. No one really had much experience with this whole poser phenomenon. But all its takes is one wrong word and the gigs up. We had a guy that had been on for a while and made solid posts. Then a person I know personally logs on reads this guys stuff and point blanks tell him is a liar and FOS. Pandemonium, the whole site is shut down the admins come up with a verification system, everyone is verified, tab checks are run, it was a mess. In the end there we a few other that had solid military backgrounds but claimed a Tab they didn’t earn and were expelled.

The fact that every time Mick and Duane have been called out it has been by civilian and pretty much the same civilian is what doesn’t add up. Like I said I can’t believe that no one ran checks and that these guys were able to move freely in the special ops type crowd for years and not have something in there background that was legit. Not everyone out there is a knife nut. From my experience very few are, so saying the guy is a good knife maker aint going to cut it in that crowd. The first question is always who is he and what did he do.

There is always a chance that they pulled the wool over some eyes but I feel that is a very very slim chance.
 
There is always a chance that they pulled the wool over some eyes but I feel that is a very very slim chance.
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I hope you are correct.

How long does it take to provide documents or tabs or whatever to clear it up? My wife and I both know exactly where all our papers from our service records are and could have them up and copied in days.
Frankly I wonder why there is even any length of time between these questions coming up and getting shut down by those being questioned at all.

By the way, the links Spark provided show clearly that even the Military elite can be fooled.

I separated from the Air Force in 1984. I could provide contact information for at least three people perhaps more that I still know how to contact that served with me. Am I that unique? Last time I drove home to visit family I stopped off at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois and visited the old dental clinic I worked at. I ran into three guys there that were there when I was stationed there. All had left and then come back of course but point is it makes me wonder why the time delay to clear it up. It just doesn't make sense. You either have the documents to back it up or you don't. Its that simple.

STR
 
STR said:
Frankly I wonder why there is even any length of time between these questions coming up and getting shut down by those being questioned at all.
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I think in this case it’s because those doing the asking are doing it in a way to do as much damage as possible to the Strider business. I have heard that they went after Duane before and that it was shot down then. I don’t know what has changed that they think they now can prove different. I also know that where as the POWNET has a good reputation with a lot of the military organizations they have made mistakes before. I know people can get caught up in the “what” they are doing not the “why”. I would think that an outfit like POWNet would have to retain a measure of impartiality in all situations. In this case that doesn’t appear to be true. Everything that is given to them in the defense is forwarded to the parties that are making the claims. The thing to remember is that if the claims are not true you are bashing on a veteran. I would think that you would receive all the info that people think is false. Pull records and contact the aggrieved party and say these are the claims can you disprove them. Then they either can or cant. Then you post your findings on the web. Not someone makes a claim, you cut and paste little snippets from all over the web from people no one knows on your site, and you forward all the info to those making the claim.
 
Very interesting. I did not know or hear before that this was going on behind the scenes.

One thing in your post stood out to me. I'd like to add some thoughts on that.
The thing to remember is that if the claims are not true you are bashing on a veteran.
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It may have taken on the appearance of 'bashing' at this point and perhaps to many that is the case. But my opinion on this is that it started out as legit questions by folks that have every right to know. These questions came up because of some red flags that popped up and hey, look around right, I mean it happens. Duane or Mick are not the first and will not be the last to be asked to verify a few details. This is not unreasonable or even all that uncommon from what I've read recently so the fact that it may appear to be bashing now is directly related to the delays by those questioned. Therefore the blame for it appearing to be bashing lies on the shoulders of those being asked to prove claims as much as those asking.

I see it as a bit of a stretch to associate the questions of validity with being done to hurt Strider business. First off all I don't think this has happened at all, and second if in fact the business has been hurt as you say then again this can be directly related to undo delays in verification of records.

I would love to hear that Duane's name has been taken off the POWnetwork.org site personally and would not wish this to fall on any veteran. But I think when a veteran is questioned by those like yourself or the people simply wanting to know from POWnetwork or other lay people that if they are legit they should have no problem at all in proving what they claim or straightening out misquotes of claims by those they are friends or as the case may be, 'brothers' with that have falsely stated something not correct.

STR
 
I will rephrase.

In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. Up until they are proven guilty, the thing to remember is that you are dealing with a possible veteran. I would think that alone would mean that you would tread lightly until you have proof one way or the other. If you have proof the guy is lying then drop the hammer, but if the guy isn’t lying then he is a veteran.

I am dealing with an issue right now where a co worker has a Ranger Tab on his POV. I talked to him thinking he was another Ranger grad. First two sentences were nothing but huge red flags. He is in military.com as an infantry airborne and thats it. Checks were run at RTB, he hasn’t been. The guy does have a solid military career but he is lying about his Tab, he also has a combat paratrooper sticker on his truck but he told me point blank he didn’t jump with the 82nd. Work said they wont touch it because it on his POV. So now I have to confront this A$$*&^% again with proof after the new years and get him to break. If that doesn’t work I am posting all my info in every office here. But I can tell you flat out I am sick of posers.
 
perhaps the best post in this thread...

Bronco said:
I suspect, but I don't know.
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Innocent till proven guilty... and so far I aint seen anything proven.

To those who wonder why Mick & D wont come here and post something , why would they ? What good would it do ? Ya'll have already handed down your guilty verdict.

I for one can't wait to see Mick & D & Josh at SHOT show in 2008 ( booth 8714 for those of you with so much to ask ).
 
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