Survival Gun of last resort.

Again... if I could take something that large... I'd take a Mark III or Even my Glock 34 lower with 22lr conversion kit on it. I'm speaking about something big enough to fit in your pocket or small fanny survival pack... I think the wheels have fallen off this thread LOL.

Your title says "survival gun of last resort".

How does a pelet gun not fit the "last resort" part of your question? You didn't ask for "best" survival gun. Notice I also said Absolute bottom of the barrel, last resort, doom and gloom has befallen us survival gun .

If I had to chose a gun for survival, a pelet gun wouldn't be it. If I put a list together of what I think are good survival firearms, the pelet gun would be on the bottom of the list. Therefore last resort.

If I was lost in the wilderness I'd consider a pelet gun a blessing if it was all I had.
 
I'm going to nitpick here, just because of some differences that are relevant-

No problem koyote. I was using that model as an example. I don't own one. Thanks for the tips on the 1377 too. :thumbup:
 
Running Boar,

Where in NA would you need deep concealment?

Wisconsin and Illinois have NO provision for CCW. Many "Shall Issue" states such as NY, Maine, NJ are virtually the smae because they are restricted to ex LEO's only. Many States also require you to be a resident of that state, so while you may be able to carry in your own state, don't go on vacation.

VT and Alaska are the only 2 states with NO CCW restriction.

I am NOT advocating anyone do anything illegal, just letting you know the lay of the land.

Understood, so your breaking the law with the NAA in your pocket, my 22/45 in my daypack is more illegal? :confused: Chris
 
Is this better?:p
target004.jpg

As you can see, they got some miles on 'em.
 
Here is an interesting article I dug up on the web by John Taffin. The title of the article sums up his thoughts on the lil' gun. "NAA Boot guns: When first and second choices aren't an option." http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_52/ai_n16498975

Very interesting is the extreme drop in Velocity from the very short barrel on the NAA. The 22 mag is a significant upgrade over the .22 lr.

The CCI is listed at 1255 FPS from a 6" barell... but only reaches 675 FPS in the diminutive NAA. To put that in perspective, the short barrel cuts the velocity by alomst HALF:eek::thumbdn: that is about double the velocity of a BB that a Daisy Red Rider fires.

Carry whatever you want... I'll pass on the NAA.
 
Here is an interesting article I dug up on the web by John Taffin. The title of the article sums up his thoughts on the lil' gun. "NAA Boot guns: When first and second choices aren't an option." http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_52/ai_n16498975

Very interesting is the extreme drop in Velocity from the very short barrel on the NAA. The 22 mag is a significant upgrade over the .22 lr.

The CCI is listed at 1255 FPS from a 6" barell... but only reaches 675 FPS in the diminutive NAA. To put that in perspective, the short barrel cuts the velocity by alomst HALF:eek::thumbdn: that is about double the velocity of a BB that a Daisy Red Rider fires.

Carry whatever you want... I'll pass on the NAA.


look at the results from the longer barrels on the NAA website. I completely agree about the short barrels, but a .22lr from a minimaster or black widow is a different story- and you can still do whatever grips you want.

the CCI stinger averages 1060, for example

(and the red rider does closer to 300fps. a *good* spring air rifle will push a 25 grain at 800, though)
 
Hey you are right about this one. Pretty cool. A longer bbl with 'real' sights. In 22 mag, this one could be an asset in a survival situation for shooting small game. :thumbup:

Of course... you lose much of the concealability of the smaller pistol... and for the comprimise I'd still go with a Kahr, J frame or even Keltec.

mmtNEW.jpg


This one is pretty cool...
bw01.jpg
 
Hey you are right about this one. Pretty cool. A longer bbl with 'real' sights. In 22 mag, this one could be an asset in a survival situation for shooting small game. :thumbup:

mmtNEW.jpg

I've had my eye on one of those for a while, may just break down and spend the money. Chris
 
I thought the kit guns had other calibers. And so many people spend so much time EVERY time there's a thread involving a .22 saying that it's the worst caliber for ANY situation ever that we all tend to get a bit polarized.
I think they used to come in a .32 caliber also, but don't think those versions are made anymore, but I could be wrong.

What you seem to be saying is that the NAA frame itself cannot handle accuracy. My replacement for the OP 1 inch barrel with a 4 inch barrel and real sights doesn't do it for you, either. So it's not the 1 inch barrel. The problem I'm having is that I've fired longer barrel NAA variants and haven't seen this fundamental inaccuracy. It's still WAY smaller than any 8 shot .22 revolver, for example.
The Minimaster with it's 4" barrel is the only NAA revolver I know that can shoot worth a hoot. We're in agreement there. We both agree that the tiny models suck for accuracy. I wouldn't, however, bet on the 30 yard shot with the Minimaster on a bird either. My 6.5" Single Six? Sure. Which is why I suggest moving up to a larger .22 at the very least. They are plenty light still, still fairly small, but offer much better control and sights. Remove the whole 30 yard thing, drop it to 10 and the Minimaster become much more acceptable. But still not for defense, which is part of the equation, as you have to remove the cylinder to reload once you shoot your 5 rounds.


Almost every answer to the OP's gun has been a combat oriented larger caliber revolver or pocket auto that doesn't give me warm fuzzies for mid range accuracy. 10 yard shots on small game are pretty easy where I live, but get much rarer once you get out of the agricultural valley. I imagine they'd be fairly common down in the swamps, too. But I like the OP planning on 30 yard shots. Just don't think it's doable with the 1 inch barrel.
Agreed. But IMO 30 yard shots on very small game like squirrels and birds (even large birds have small heads/vital areas, and I've seen .22 LR from a rifle not make it through the breast of a goose, much less a tiny revolver) are going to be hard to next to impossible for any pistol, and undoable for a pocket pistol no matter the caliber.
 
The Minimaster with it's 4" barrel is the only NAA revolver I know that can shoot worth a hoot. We're in agreement there. We both agree that the tiny models suck for accuracy. I wouldn't, however, bet on the 30 yard shot with the Minimaster on a bird either. My 6.5" Single Six? Sure. Which is why I suggest moving up to a larger .22 at the very least. They are plenty light still, still fairly small, but offer much better control and sights. Remove the whole 30 yard thing, drop it to 10 and the Minimaster become much more acceptable. But still not for defense, which is part of the equation, as you have to remove the cylinder to reload once you shoot your 5 rounds.

I have an H&R sportsman 6 inch - it's a top break 9 round with speedloaders available. It's a SWEET gun, used to be available used around $150, but it's creeping up as people realize what it is and that H&R stuff often had superior shooting qualities if you found the right models.

I dunno that i'd try 30 yard shots on starlings by preference with a minimaster, I'd rather just carry a .410. But on a bunny I'll take the shot.


Agreed. But IMO 30 yard shots on very small game like squirrels and birds (even large birds have small heads/vital areas, and I've seen .22 LR from a rifle not make it through the breast of a goose, much less a tiny revolver) are going to be hard to next to impossible for any pistol, and undoable for a pocket pistol no matter the caliber.

I'm not sure how to rate that. Too many variables- old ammo, bad ammo, bad angle. You can find stories if you look hard enough of people being shot multiple times with large calibers and still attacking, too. I'd be comfortable with a good using decent ammo out of my sportsman revolver, for sure.

My main thrust in this one is to look at total weights and dimensions and get - if you are focussed on the possibility of small game sustenance shooting with an REALLY TINY gun- the best possible performance in accuracy. and that includes the sights and sight radius as much as the caliber.

If someone started making a low vertical profile, 5 round, .32 S&W 5-6 inch bbl revolver that was nice and light, I'd probably throw i in my pack over almost any .22 - if it duplicated the sportsman (sweet grips and frame),but with 5 rounds, and admittedly a fully adjustable sight, I'd probably make sure that anything i went out in the deep wilds with could accomadate carrying it somehow. Maybe I'll turn up that k frame target .32 someday!
 
Aside from the crappy ergos and anemic barrel length, the trigger on those things are atrocious. Just awful. That's not being 'picky', but if you think you're going to get small game out of an ultra compact that has a trigger like a bad zipgun, you're in for a bad day.
 
The only hunting regulations regarding guns that I know of, and that are worth mentioning here, is that you aren't allowed to take a shotgun or a rimfire hunting for bigger game on our government land. That is sensible when it comes to protecting our native birds etc.... and to help prevent irresponsible hunters from injuring animals with inadequate fire power. Some folks might not be so careful with bullet placement and responsible distances to shoot. On private land you can pretty much do what you want.

I like to use a .22 near built-up areas for safety and noise reasons. I also like to use a .22 in other places for convenience and noise reasons. Nowadays I often have a supressor fitted to the .22 I'm using. I simply don't like to let people know what I'm up to, and I don't enjoy loud bangs.

Having hunted with a primitive bow and arrows, I realize how much better a scoped, suppressed .22 is. And I've only just started using a scope. When the rifle is properly sighted in, it is amazing that those little bullets generally hit where the crosshairs are resting. I used to think that scopes were easily misaligned, a nuisance to carry, and maybe a bit sissy. Nowadays I'm convinced that it is an important part of my .22 meat-getting system. I am a reasonably good shot with any sights, but a scope almost makes me superhuman by comparison.

I still use a .22 with open sights occasionally, but I would not take some shots on larger animals if I was uncertain about hitting the right spot.

To me using a .22 responsibly involves a reasonably good level of marksmanship, knowing the limits of the gun and the shooter, knowledge of the anatomy of the animal, and the self-control that allows you to not take shots that you aren't certain will kill.

Head shots certainly drop an animal, but folks need to be fairly sure of the location of the actual tiny brainbox that you need to hit. And on some animals it can be well protected by bone..... especially when shooting at some angles.

Head shots on hogs can be particularly dicey. And a straight shoulder shot can be stupid on a larger animal because of the thickness of the shield. I've found that with smaller hogs an angling shot behind the shoulder will reach the heart-lung area and bring the pig down quickly. I would be reluctant to shoot at a bigger hog with a .22 unless I was very close and could put a bullet in at the right angle.

The black and white pic of me shooting at a hog was taken at a time when I anticipated maybe shooting a goat. I was also only about 18 years old. It took several shots to finish the job... I'm glad I didn't have the single shot Gecado Plinker .22 I often used in those days. The Anschutz's box magazine saved me.

If I am seriously after a pig or a deer nowadays I generally use an old military Lee-Enfield that my father converted to shoot the 7.62 x 39 cartridge. It is superb for the job provided that I don't want to take long shots..... although I was particularly pleased a while back to take a stag with the little cartridge using open sights at a distance of maybe 140 yards.

So I don't recommend a .22 for larger animals, but used carefully this little cartridge, shot from a reasonably long barrel, will suffice as a reliable tool for hunting.
 
"I have been in combat situations, if you think you can draw that little pistol and put one in a bad guys brain pan, when at the same time, he is trying to do you serious bodily harm, I suggest you rethink your ideas."

Had to smile when I read this. Let me tell you a little story. A friend of mine was jumped by 3 bad guys in the driveway of his home. Forced into his house where his family was. Here the three armed bad guys DISARMED my friend, relieving him of his holstered Colt 1911 in 45ACP. They wanted money. He played along, reaching into his pocket and retrieving his NAA 22 Magnum. He moved and shot bad guy number 1 directly in the face - DEAD RIGHT THERE - and fired another round into bad guy 2. Bad guys 2 and 3 fled out of the house as my friend grabbed his 1911 that bad guy 1 dropped as he was shot.

Survival?
 
For versatility, I think a pump shotgun is hard to beat. You could fire birdshot for small game, slugs for large game/protection from predators, and also safety flares if you hear a plane nearby. Plus you can use it as a club when you run out of ammo.
 
Tactical steel,

Really?

A .22 used for defense? It actually STOPPED an attacker? Holy crap!

I can't believe all these experts could be wrong!

I have no problem carrying my TP-22 when the situation warrants it and will continue to do so. The NAA .22 is a smart idea as a last ditch, NOT a first choice, which is what the OP suggested.
 
22 MAGNUM, straight through the left eye into the brain. Its not WHAT you shoot, its WHERE you place the BULLET. Was he lucky, maybe, but it worked.
 
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