Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

EngrSorenson said:
The answer to this first one is "yes", though there may be mitigating factors in the resulting punishment.
My opinion that S!K isn't an intentionally fraudulent company doesn't change the fact that they've done something wrong.
Up until now I'd say it was morally wrong, subject to interpretation, but pretty soon I think it's going to be criminally wrong.

See, I'm not so sure. Even now it's not his fault things aren't going well. He's done nothing wrong- it's someone else's fault.
Kind of like our buddy @Wild Willie pointed out, Preorders or payment upfront isn't necessarily against the law, but it sure doesn't sound like a good idea.
If S!K delivered 100% of preorders (in a timely manor), I don't think we'd even question his choices, but in the real world we know preorders is a potential setup for catastrophe.
I think we're all pretty sure he's been using incoming funds from preorders to make up the difference in bungled past orders.
This is where it gets dicey, because now the pressure's on to make some bad choices; choices like...

Take a preorder. bungle it. someone wants their money back- return it.
Not a great situation and I'm sure no one's happy, but I don't think a crime has been committed.

Delaying a refund, in any way, is where we first see the symptoms.
Add on additional coercion in the form of threats to not allow someone to preorder again and it looks really bad.
Not being solvent enough to supply refunds means that S!K has stepped beyond the point of no return.
They've accepted payment for a product they can't deliver, and they can't refund the order.
In my know-nothing-legal-opinion, that's the definitive moment they have committed a crime.

Oh for sure, and Guy might end up being one of them.
I guess my whole point is that the time is coming where there's going to be a change in how we talk about it.
Until now, it's basically been "In my opinion, Guy is a fraudster".
That's fine, but it's not super meaningful in the grander scheme.
It will become "Legally, Guy has been found to be a fraudster".
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Okay, but let's use an example of raising a toddler. Young kids don't understand right from wrong. They learn what is right and what is wrong. Can't really blame them for being little shits until they have been taught the difference between right and wrong. So here we have Guy. He's been told over and over again that what he is doing is not right. For years and years. He's admitted as much. They committed to stop the preorder thing because they knew the appearance of taking money and not delivering is wrong. So even after being told what they are doing is wrong and even after committing to change what they are doing because they can see it is wrong, they go right back to the wrong behavior when it benefits them. A toddler has a better understanding of how to deal with right and wrong than guy does. Survive continues the wrong behavior despite knowing it is wrong. Even if everything is someone else's fault, survive would have to have learned that the wrong thing to do is take preorders, after 10 years of being told it is wrong. Imagine if it took 10 years for a toddler to get the basics of right and wrong.

He knows.

Oh, and he's also a convicted felon.
 
Quiet said:
For the record, this is the same issue I have with all of these new Insta-Famous brands that have cropped up where they come up with designs and then ship that napkin drawing over to We/Reate/BestTech with the direction to turn it into a functioning knife. These dudes don't make anything.
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And you know what, I get where you're coming from, but I accept that as a legitimate way to get a product to the floor.
Some people have ideas but no skills or know how, and if it gets a cool product on the floor well that's fine by me.

What I have a problem is the lingo is always "here at Niffes, we make the highest quality... yadda yadda... survival... yadda yadda... edge retention."
It's almost never, "we've teamed up with XXXXXX to bring you..."

But also it's never as cool as "we made this in house".
 
EngrSorenson said:
And you know what, I get where you're coming from, but I accept that as a legitimate way to get a product to the floor.
Some people have ideas but no skills or know how, and if it gets a cool product on the floor well that's fine by me.

What I have a problem is the lingo is always "here at Niffes, we make the highest quality... yadda yadda... survival... yadda yadda... edge retention."
It's almost never, "we've teamed up with XXXXXX to bring you..."

But also it's never as cool as "we made this in house".
Click to expand...
Well, the issue is that it's NOT cool. It just feels like all the other knives those three companies make. Oh snap, TI bolsters, M390 blades, and thin cover material slabs with the same exact action. Sweet*! Every year at BLADE, you stop by all these tables, and see all these small companies showing off knives that, when you see the materials list, you know immediately "This is Chinesium." and then you pick it up, actuate the knife and you're able to narrow it to specific vendors "Oh, Reate made this" because (as an example) all Reate-made knives feel the exact same in both function, as well as the overall finish. It's always been hilarious to me that two or three companies are making something like nearly 50% (more like 70% + of the folders) of the knives on the floor at BLADE every year.

There's a specific guy I have in mind who admitted that he didn't even know how to design slipjoint actions, he just had the Chinese OEM do it. Like, where's your pride? It's such a bullshit tourist thing to do. "Well, I've always wanted to be a knifemaker and own a knife company!" Yeah, so put in the work, learn how to make knives, and grow your skills to the level where people are clamoring for your work. What? All that's too hard and you just sent some drawings off to Gongbong and now you're receiving crates of knives, where all you have to do is remove the "Made in China" sticker off the blade and sell them? Oh, ok, do that then, I guess. 🤷



* Except not.
 
EngrSorenson said:
And you know what, I get where you're coming from, but I accept that as a legitimate way to get a product to the floor.
Some people have ideas but no skills or know how, and if it gets a cool product on the floor well that's fine by me.

What I have a problem is the lingo is always "here at Niffes, we make the highest quality... yadda yadda... survival... yadda yadda... edge retention."
It's almost never, "we've teamed up with XXXXXX to bring you..."

But also it's never as cool as "we made this in house".
Click to expand...

I always appreciate when a company is upfront about who they are partnered with to push out a product. For example, Architect is very clear on who manufactures their knives. It's a peace of mind that's gained by removing the guesswork and simply laying out the facts. If you have nothing to hide, why hide it?
 
Also, who remembers this article from December 8th, 2021?
knifenews.com

Survive Knives Talks About Troubled Past and Looks Toward a Bright Future | KnifeNews.com

After years of trouble, Survive Knives is back, powering through its backlog and making big plans for the future.
knifenews.com knifenews.com
The resurrected Survive initiated a two-prong approach: soldiering through its backlog and scheduling/producing the next generation of Survive knives. After just over six months of concentrated effort, Seiferd now happily confirms that the legendary backlog is almost done with.
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🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
 
El_Bribon said:
CPM doesn't need anyone to carry their water for them, they're big boys.
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I'm sorry if you got the idea that I said CPM needed someone to carry their water because that is not what I said. Guy is insulting actual competent makers who use CPM product. Said makers pointing that out in disagreement isn't carrying CPM's water. It is defending themselves and the product they use. Perfectly reasonable.
 
Retired UPS Driver said:
In this life and the next, you will always be Hovering Overhead, watching over us
👍🍻

View attachment 2503095
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…….given what a cluster the Taipan was in service here that is almost and insult ;) :D
El_Bribon said:
I haven't had a White River knife, so I'll have to take your word for it. Based on what you wrote, would you say ESEE Knives is not a knife maker? They have their knives made by Rowen and White River (IIRC). They design them and spec them but they don't do the actual manufacturing of the knives.
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I would argue that ESEE is a brand not a maker. Jeff etc have never claimed they make/finish/assemble their knives but the product made to their design is branded ESEE (but also Rowen - no there is not confusion about who MADE it).
 
Quiet said:
Well, the issue is that it's NOT cool. It just feels like all the other knives those three companies make. Oh snap, TI bolsters, M390 blades, and thin cover material slabs with the same exact action. Sweet*! Every year at BLADE, you stop by all these tables, and see all these small companies showing off knives that, when you see the materials list, you know immediately "This is Chinesium." and then you pick it up, actuate the knife and you're able to narrow it to specific vendors "Oh, Reate made this" because (as an example) all Reate-made knives feel the exact same in both function, as well as the overall finish. It's always been hilarious to me that two or three companies are making something like nearly 50% (more like 70% + of the folders) of the knives on the floor at BLADE every year.

There's a specific guy I have in mind who admitted that he didn't even know how to design slipjoint actions, he just had the Chinese OEM do it. Like, where's your pride? It's such a bullshit tourist thing to do. "Well, I've always wanted to be a knifemaker and own a knife company!" Yeah, so put in the work, learn how to make knives, and grow your skills to the level where people are clamoring for your work. What? All that's too hard and you just sent some drawings off to Gongbong and now you're receiving crates of knives, where all you have to do is remove the "Made in China" sticker off the blade and sell them? Oh, ok, do that then, I guess. 🤷



* Except not.
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That's a fair criticism.
I know of whom you speak.

Just being a bankroll for a manufacturer is yet another step removed from being involved at all.
 
My Google-fu is strong today, Kbrasmodeler Kbrasmodeler .
If it's okay with Boru13 Boru13 and Blues Blues I have some screen caps from the public record.
Seems a little sensitive, so I'm not going to post it without the A-OK.

Adams county, PA. 1999, Guy Kenneth Seiferd.
Arrested 07/08/1999 and charged with burglary- pleaded guilty.

He stole a bunch of guns and tried to sell them.
 
El_Bribon said:
CPM doesn't need anyone to carry their water for them, they're big boys.
Click to expand...

EngrSorenson said:
Also, who remembers this article from December 8th, 2021?
knifenews.com

Survive Knives Talks About Troubled Past and Looks Toward a Bright Future | KnifeNews.com

After years of trouble, Survive Knives is back, powering through its backlog and making big plans for the future.
knifenews.com knifenews.com
Click to expand...
You see Mr. Bribon, this^ is an example of carrying someone's water. And Guy desperately needs it. Speaking of that, what exactly are you doing here?

El_Bribon said:
+
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You are new here so as a an FYI, editing out your own posts, especially after they have been quoted, is a bad look.
 
EngrSorenson said:
My Google-fu is strong today, Kbrasmodeler Kbrasmodeler .
If it's okay with Boru13 Boru13 and Blues Blues I have some screen caps from the public record.
Seems a little sensitive, so I'm not going to post it without the A-OK.

Adams county, PA. 1999, Guy Kenneth Seiferd.
Arrested 07/08/1999 and charged with burglary- pleaded guilty.

He stole a bunch of guns and tried to sell them.
Click to expand...
Before trying to hightail it to mexico. Guess he knew stealing them guns was wrong.
 
EngrSorenson said:
My Google-fu is strong today, Kbrasmodeler Kbrasmodeler .
If it's okay with Boru13 Boru13 and Blues Blues I have some screen caps from the public record.
Seems a little sensitive, so I'm not going to post it without the A-OK.

Adams county, PA. 1999, Guy Kenneth Seiferd.
Arrested 07/08/1999 and charged with burglary- pleaded guilty.

He stole a bunch of guns and tried to sell them.
Click to expand...
Probably best to leave it at that if there is nothing which would further this discussion. Feel free to PM the info to me and I'll have a look.
If Carl feels otherwise, I'll defer, as he has been involved with this matter longer than I have.
 
Pàdruig said:
I always appreciate when a company is upfront about who they are partnered with to push out a product. For example, Architect is very clear on who manufactures their knives. It's a peace of mind that's gained by removing the guesswork and simply laying out the facts. If you have nothing to hide, why hide it?
Click to expand...
Yup. And I'll buy ESEE or Architect with full confidence.
Rowan is the real deal and they do a great job.

And just to insult 2015 GSO 12's a little more, ESEE and Architect is a fraction of the cost and you get a real knife that cuts things!
 
Blues said:
Probably best to leave it at that if there is nothing which would further this discussion. Feel free to PM the info to me and I'll have a look.
If Carl feels otherwise, I'll defer, as he has been involved with this matter than I have.
Click to expand...
Agree.

Just for the record, post #1263 of this thread gives some details on what happened according to the article.
 
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