Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

gscreely said:
I've spent time with DBK in Holland. They are good guys, and I suspect they are only looking at the quality of the knife in isolation, knowing there is not a path to get suckered into a preorder anymore.

As much as Survive! had dubious business practices and ethics, they did produce a good knife (on the occasions when they delivered one). Actually (hours before the announcement of going out of business), I went to a store and purchased a Survive! knife. It was an EDC 4 in K890 (a steel I am interested in) it was $239.

Frankly, it is a really good knife. I hardness tested it (62hrc), sharpness tested it (180 on the bess- not as sharp as mine ha ha), disassembled it, and evaluated the overall fit and finish which was excellent. The truth is it is a $350 knife being sold at $239 (probably why so many risked preorders). Besides all the mismanagement and dubious ethics the fundamental business model was broken, the knives were underpriced to sustain a profitable operation. The longer they operated, the further behind they became, about a million-dollars in unfilled orders.

Just to punctuate how bogus the claims of Survive! as it relates to Magnacut were; Survive purchased a total of about $35,000 of Magnacut and claimed to lose 20% due to voids (also a dubious claim, but lets assume that). So we are talking about a maximum loss of $7000 in material, which, again, there was no evidence that the loss was 20% (from voids). If we triple the material costs to account for work put into the material until the issues surface, we are talking about $21,000. Now, let's consider they have recieved an advance of nearly a million dollars in preorders and they can't handle a 20k issue??

Any issues with Magnacut should have been a standard production challenge, and to suggest that this was a show-stopping issue was a total fabrication. It probably had more to do with 50k a month in overhead and 4k a month in sales.

One of the HST video outcomes is to clarify that Magnacut was not the major problem at Survive! IMO- Magnacut vindicated.
Click to expand...

gscreely said:
It sounded like 30 or 40 parts. So you guys sold them 1240 pounds of Magnacut, if we figure 2 parts per pound on average that’s about 2500 parts, let’s say their loss was 50 parts, that would be an actual loss rate of 2%. The conclusion is loss because of any sort of inconsistency in the steel matrix was pretty minimal, and would not have had a meaningful effect on manufacturing operations.

The ultimate effect (according to guys own estimate ) was a 2% increase in the amount of material needed. So that illustrates what we all already knew which was Magnacut was not actually that big an issue, and that video proves as much.

2% of the amount of steel that they purchased comes out to about 24.8 pounds, or about $800 worth of steel. When you consider the scope of a $1 million backlog and $50,000 a month overhead, blaming an $800 issue for your demise it’s just crazy.

Just to put it into perspective, every pound of magnacut they purchased (from NSM), all 1240 pounds of it cost less than one month of their overhead. I’m not saying they didn’t have issues with Magnacut, heck we were all on a learning curve there’s early days with the new steel, but the idea that those issues were ruinous to the company is just preposterous.
Click to expand...
These two posts are so spot on!!

If there was an issue (and i am still not convinced that there really was much of an issue), it could have been resolved by grinding .002 off the 30 or 40 parts. The demise of S!K was not decarb or "VoIDs iN tHe stEEl", it was Guy and Ellie not knowing what they were doing. Because of their incompetence and deceit, AT LEAST 3500 people got ripped off.
 
Well, let's not get testy. Guy is working on liquidating things and going on a backpacking trip to Asia, I'm sure he'll pay back everyone whose money he and ellie stole when he gets back from his vacation. Right?

We have no reason to doubt his character or word. Look, his business didn't survive! Nor did his integrity, community standing, or hairline, but... BUT he's working on liquidating things to cover bills and a vacation. It's gotta count for something, right?
 
shinyedges said:
Well, let's not get testy. Guy is working on liquidating things and going on a backpacking trip to Asia, I'm sure he'll pay back everyone whose money he and ellie stole when he gets back from his vacation. Right?

We have no reason to doubt his character or word. Look, his business didn't survive! Nor did his integrity, community standing, or hairline, but... BUT he's working on liquidating things to cover bills and a vacation. It's gotta count for something, right?
Click to expand...
Should we set up a GoFundMe to help Guy have an even better vacation?
 
gscreely said:
I've spent time with DBK in Holland. They are good guys, and I suspect they are only looking at the quality of the knife in isolation, knowing there is not a path to get suckered into a preorder anymore.

As much as Survive! had dubious business practices and ethics, they did produce a good knife (on the occasions when they delivered one). Actually (hours before the announcement of going out of business), I went to a store and purchased a Survive! knife. It was an EDC 4 in K890 (a steel I am interested in) it was $239.

Frankly, it is a really good knife. I hardness tested it (62hrc), sharpness tested it (180 on the bess- not as sharp as mine ha ha), disassembled it, and evaluated the overall fit and finish which was excellent. The truth is it is a $350 knife being sold at $239 (probably why so many risked preorders). Besides all the mismanagement and dubious ethics the fundamental business model was broken, the knives were underpriced to sustain a profitable operation. The longer they operated, the further behind they became, about a million-dollars in unfilled orders.......
Click to expand...

I want to thank you for posting your professional assessment about the quality of these knives, and also the rest of your post where you put the scale of the MC issue into context.
 
DocJekl said:
It's way too early for the Sharks to be eating the remains, or circling the wagons, etc... I hope the victims get their knives!
Click to expand...
Guy himself is already liquidating the remains and nobody is getting their knives. I just wondered how he was doing it.
I doubt it's poorly written signs tacked on phone poles but with Guy you never know.
 
ncrockclimb said:
These two posts are so spot on!!

If there was an issue (and i am still not convinced that there really was much of an issue), it could have been resolved by grinding .002 off the 30 or 40 parts. The demise of S!K was not decarb or "VoIDs iN tHe stEEl", it was Guy and Ellie not knowing what they were doing. Because of their incompetence and deceit, AT LEAST 3500 people got ripped off.
Click to expand...
They knew exactly what they were doing. No remorse, nothing. Let’s call it what it is, a grift. If it were car parts or tulip bulbs, there would be people on those specific forums loosing their collective minds.

It’s a knife. They scammed people, myself included. “Hope” is not a business plan.
 
Last edited:
Is he going to try to disappear somewhere in Southeast Asia to get out of this mess?
 
Wharn said:
Is he going to try to disappear somewhere in Southeast Asia to get out of this mess?
Click to expand...
In the video from hst (jon) he says guy is planning a backpacking trip through Asia. Sounds like a flight risk to me.
 
beeinak said:
And remember that although scumbags like them ruin a knife buying experience, that most knife makers are awesome and honorable. That sour taste will pass when you deal with someone who communicates quickly, turns out fantastic products, and actually cares about the customer. Some great makers on these forums!
Click to expand...
Totally - this forum is a gold mine. Well, I'm definately on the hunt for a GSO-12 similar chopper/all-rounder to brighten my mood so I'll soon experience some of the makers here. So far I have on the list:
- Busse Battle Mistress
- Carothers Medium Chopper

Open to other suggestions? Maybe we should have a thread on 'bigger than required, but oh so fun choppers?' :)
 
nsm said:
Please note how many blades he said were bad around the 45 second mark.

Click to expand...
FFS - Sign the fn NDA, get off social media, get your a$$ into gear and get to work getting your customers their product - Sorry, but seeing this now makes me wonder whether his goal was to get a business of the ground or enter martyrdom.
 
DRG80N said:
Totally - this forum is a gold mine. Well, I'm definately on the hunt for a GSO-12 similar chopper/all-rounder to brighten my mood so I'll soon experience some of the makers here. So far I have on the list:
- Busse Battle Mistress
- Carothers Medium Chopper

Open to other suggestions? Maybe we should have a thread on 'bigger than required, but oh so fun choppers?' :)
Click to expand...
The post directly above yours’ lol ( David Mary David Mary ) , Bill Siegle Bill Siegle , and DanitzKnives DanitzKnives off the top of my head. There are Chopper threads, just do a search.

Maybe not SIK related so I’ll throw something in there SIK related. Sorry for getting off track Mods, delete post if needed.

Has Guy been wearing the same dang, dirty, extra curved billed, hat in his video’s for years? These Gentleman sure make a lot of drama video’s sheesh lol!
 
Last edited:
DRG80N said:
Totally - this forum is a gold mine. Well, I'm definately on the hunt for a GSO-12 similar chopper/all-rounder to brighten my mood so I'll soon experience some of the makers here. So far I have on the list:
- Busse Battle Mistress
- Carothers Medium Chopper

Open to other suggestions? Maybe we should have a thread on 'bigger than required, but oh so fun choppers?' :)
Click to expand...
In addition to those (CPK and Busse have their followings for a reason),and ones mentioned by Cwilliams563 (David Mary and Siegle make awesome choppers), I would definitely check out Thanks knives new choppers he has been developing.
 
DRG80N said:
Totally - this forum is a gold mine. Well, I'm definately on the hunt for a GSO-12 similar chopper/all-rounder to brighten my mood so I'll soon experience some of the makers here. So far I have on the list:
- Busse Battle Mistress
- Carothers Medium Chopper

Open to other suggestions? Maybe we should have a thread on 'bigger than required, but oh so fun choppers?' :)
Click to expand...
Myself or northern knife works (on IG) could help you out.
 
MikeD60 said:
They knew exactly what they were doing. No remorse, nothing. Let’s call it what it is, a grift. If it were car parts or tulip bulbs, there would be people on those specific forums loosing their collective minds.

It’s a knife. They scammed people, myself included. “Hope” is not a business plan.
Click to expand...
The con will be far deeper than just the collective customers owed knives.

Anyone who has extended them any kind of credit for any service, rent, equipment, materials will never see their money.
You can be sure that any credit extended to them has been run up to the max and they have used that credit to build as many knives as possible to keep the con alive, rather than going into their stash of grifted cash.

My guess is that the original setup was funded by loans from private investors/friends/family..... All gone now.
Even now as we speak they are probably trying to raise more investor money on the back of all the orders.

All this is a classic move from professional grifters. As the con reaches its endgame they double down on everything to try and ring the last remaining sources of cash from anywhere they can.

Once the hard collapse is imminent they will buy an RV, disappear into the wind and leave the mess behind. Only to appear in a few years with a whole new backstory on FB telling everyone how they are the real victims and it will all start again........ :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top