Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[IMG alt="SURVIVE! Ellie"]https://www.bladeforums.com/data/avatars/m/379/379131.jpg?1492197659[/IMG]

SURVIVE! Ellie

Joined Apr 21, 2014 Messages 1,008
Sagemode said:
I have lost interest in their knives since the wait times and fake news that came out over the years. You never get what you expect not even 10% of what you expect from them.
I believe a lot of folks who placed preorders with us during the SURVIVE! Starter campaign were expecting a knife similar to our old spec production models. Instead they are getting a knife with much tighter fit & finish and innovations like our unique surface finish, Delta 3V and Microtextured handles.

Sagemode said:
A few weeks really means a few years. The thread from 2012 shows that not a single thing has changed. Send your money in wait and
Open ended preordering was last available in September of 2016, which is when we closed the GSO-8 Preorder. Since then we have offered some preordering, but with limitations on time and/or volume. Those preorders have only been available for models that have started or are close to starting production. In actuality, we haven't had any knives available for sale since October 2017 and have been working on fulfilling existing orders.

Sagemode said:
customers are scum if they ask what the deal is.
We are always happy to reply to emails and talk to people on the phone when they are concerned about their order. If anyone feels they have been treated poorly by someone at SURVIVE! please let us know so we can be better in the future. We strive to have top-notch customer service and have never intended to be disrespectful to anyone, customer or otherwise.

Sagemode said:
You see 2nds with no errors go out when you have been waiting over 2 years is just a D move.
Every knife that leaves our workshop is a functional cutting tool. The Factory 2nds are knives that have some sort of flaw. Some of those flaws are things that used to pass as firsts until a customer complained. Over the years, our standards have gotten really high. Some folks might not care as much as we do about a mismatched bevel and would say that there is nothing wrong with the knife. Functionally, they're right. But the primary bevels are still mismatched and I know many of our customers would be pretty upset if they received a first that way.

Sagemode said:
The SK line that was the big news hasn't made anything better.
The SK Series also hasn't been released yet.

Sagemode said:
Refusal to hire people to help assemble parts is not smart either. Even if it is 5 mins per knife at the end of the day I bet that would mean faster returns for lots of people.
Assembly isn't where things are getting held up. The time consuming processes are the ones that require more skill and attention to detail, but they can also be boring and uncomfortable. Hiring people for those tasks can be more difficult but we aren't against the idea. We have hired people who didn't work out and we have interviewed people who were no longer interested once they realized what the work was. We also have to consider that a lot of what we do involves proprietary processes that took years to develop. We can't just flood the workshop with people we don't know until one of them sticks around. Instead, we decided to work with highly rated companies who already have teams of skilled employees. That is one of the advantages of the upcoming SK Series.

Sagemode said:
I have ordered from Busse and only waited one month to get the latest blade. They have enough time to get into other ventures.
We aren’t comparable to Busse. They make a different style of knife, for a different amount of money. They have also been in the business for over 30 years.

Sagemode said:
I guess the only new thing is if you cancel an order you lose 20% for a restocking fee on a knife that doesn't exist.
At the start of 2017 we implemented a new policy of charging a 10% cancellation fee for refunded orders. This was intended to help cover lost payment processing fees as well as in house costs associated with issuing refunds. The fee was waived for refunds on any weekly sales orders that had gone beyond the 90 day delivery window. Any orders placed before January 01, 2017 are not subject to the cancellation fee.
 
[IMG alt="SURVIVE! Ellie"]https://www.bladeforums.com/data/avatars/m/379/379131.jpg?1492197659[/IMG]

SURVIVE! Ellie

Joined Apr 21, 2014 Messages 1,008

I believe a lot of folks who placed preorders with us during the SURVIVE! Starter campaign were expecting a knife similar to our old spec production models. Instead they are getting a knife with much tighter fit & finish and innovations like our unique surface finish, Delta 3V and Microtextured handles.


Open ended preordering was last available in September of 2016, which is when we closed the GSO-8 Preorder. Since then we have offered some preordering, but with limitations on time and/or volume. Those preorders have only been available for models that have started or are close to starting production. In actuality, we haven't had any knives available for sale since October 2017 and have been working on fulfilling existing orders.


We are always happy to reply to emails and talk to people on the phone when they are concerned about their order. If anyone feels they have been treated poorly by someone at SURVIVE! please let us know so we can be better in the future. We strive to have top-notch customer service and have never intended to be disrespectful to anyone, customer or otherwise.


Every knife that leaves our workshop is a functional cutting tool. The Factory 2nds are knives that have some sort of flaw. Some of those flaws are things that used to pass as firsts until a customer complained. Over the years, our standards have gotten really high. Some folks might not care as much as we do about a mismatched bevel and would say that there is nothing wrong with the knife. Functionally, they're right. But the primary bevels are still mismatched and I know many of our customers would be pretty upset if they received a first that way.


The SK Series also hasn't been released yet.


Assembly isn't where things are getting held up. The time consuming processes are the ones that require more skill and attention to detail, but they can also be boring and uncomfortable. Hiring people for those tasks can be more difficult but we aren't against the idea. We have hired people who didn't work out and we have interviewed people who were no longer interested once they realized what the work was. We also have to consider that a lot of what we do involves proprietary processes that took years to develop. We can't just flood the workshop with people we don't know until one of them sticks around. Instead, we decided to work with highly rated companies who already have teams of skilled employees. That is one of the advantages of the upcoming SK Series.


We aren’t comparable to Busse. They make a different style of knife, for a different amount of money. They have also been in the business for over 30 years.


At the start of 2017 we implemented a new policy of charging a 10% cancellation fee for refunded orders. This was intended to help cover lost payment processing fees as well as in house costs associated with issuing refunds. The fee was waived for refunds on any weekly sales orders that had gone beyond the 90 day delivery window. Any orders placed before January 01, 2017 are not subject to the cancellation fee.
So this is the response I got from Ellie in Feb of 2018. From what I see the innovations they speak of are cancelled "no Delta 3V" "no SK series" "2016 orders still not done" the faster promise completion of knives never happened and everything they stated is a lie. Then you had all those other fairy tales and it is clear to me that everything they do is a though out lie to get people to send in more money.
 
Where in Texas?
HJIQhK6.jpg
That picture just never gets old. Plenty of room for Survive! in that totally-not-a-garden-shed. Especially now that QTRMSTR has moved out...
 
If anyone has actually received product from Survive! in this calendar year 2021, please post details here of which model you received. Also curious to see whether they are marked with Delta 3V (D3V) and/or Peters Heat Treat (PHT).

(I realize customers who have received product may not be checking "FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" ... but worth a try for some evidence product is delivering).
 
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If anyone has actually received product from Survive! in this calendar year 2021, please post details here of which model you received. Also curious to see whether they are marked with Delta 3V (D3V) and/or Peters Heat Treat (PHT).

(I realize customers who have received product may not be checking "FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" ... but worth a try for some evidence product is delivering).
i received my GSO 3.5 on may 10th (after 5 years...)

the blade doesn't mention the Delta 3V...

only marking on the blade,besides the logo and flag on opposite side are:

CPM-3V and PHT
 
Thanks, GAGL.

So Idaho Made is replaced with the US Flag. That covers a move out of Idaho.

And "PHT" is Peters Heat Treating. Watch this space... when manufacturing compromises are made, and business practices are compromised, I have to wonder what is next...
 
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Interesting. So, you paid for delta 3v but did not get delta 3v. Never mind the 5 year wait... Scummy thieves.
correct.
i believe they said that they won't offer the delta ht anymore, in one of their newsletters.at that point i decided to not cancel my order and just keep on waiting...i know,i know,i'm a big dummy..

the knife itself is very well made and robust.it is heavier than expected because they changed the tang cut-outs.

will i ever buy from them again,even if they sell in-stock knives only?

no way!

did i get the exact knife that i ordered?

no.

that's just part of the game when you "invest" in a protoype or concept.

one postive thing: their "dimpled" handle (sorry,i forgot the term they use) is an actual improvement from my initial order. ot gives the g10 a slightly better grip.

have a nice day!
 
I have actually received two from them this year (I'm pretty sure both were this year; if they weren't, both were between about Thanksgiving last year, and sometime in May). First was a 7/7, marked with Delta 3V, and PHT, just the flag on the reverse. That's all I've ever seen on the back-side of their blades, from as far back as 5 years ago. The second was a GSO-6, marked the same. Both are great knives, even though I can't say I like the larger handle on the -6. Except for the larger handle of the -6 (which I can't positively say is NOT like it was described when I ordered it), I believe I received exactly what I ordered.

All that being said, I waited 5 years for each of them, and based on what I'm reading, even from them, I expect it will be another year or two before I get my last one (a GSO-5.1). I do not approve of their business practices, and generally think they should be flogged for their asininity. I am debating requesting a refund for the 5.1, but I think I'm healthy enough to live long enough to receive it. Unless they go out of business, which IS something that I'm worried about.
 
that's just part of the game when you "invest" in a protoype or concept.
Right. Thing is, they never couched their customers as investors and their product as a prototype or concept. And, no doubt they saved on not using the delta HT. Lies, deception, and scamming.

Thanks for sharing your experience btw.
 
I asked them about the delta heat treat and they told me the GSO-6s were the last knives to receive it. Also linked me to Guy’s video about the change in HT which I thought was atrociously poorly articulated and seemed like bullshit.
 
I asked them about the delta heat treat and they told me the GSO-6s were the last knives to receive it. Also linked me to Guy’s video about the change in HT which I thought was atrociously poorly articulated and seemed like bullshit.

I think you've got the overall correct view of the situation in bold. LOL
 
I have actually received two from them this year (I'm pretty sure both were this year; if they weren't, both were between about Thanksgiving last year, and sometime in May). First was a 7/7, marked with Delta 3V, and PHT, just the flag on the reverse. That's all I've ever seen on the back-side of their blades, from as far back as 5 years ago. The second was a GSO-6, marked the same. Both are great knives, even though I can't say I like the larger handle on the -6. Except for the larger handle of the -6 (which I can't positively say is NOT like it was described when I ordered it), I believe I received exactly what I ordered.

All that being said, I waited 5 years for each of them, and based on what I'm reading, even from them, I expect it will be another year or two before I get my last one (a GSO-5.1). I do not approve of their business practices, and generally think they should be flogged for their asininity. I am debating requesting a refund for the 5.1, but I think I'm healthy enough to live long enough to receive it. Unless they go out of business, which IS something that I'm worried about.
I ordered a 5.1 and waited 2.5 years before I cancelled and that was May 2016 from what I recall. They have not even begun to get that model shipping. It took 3 years to get the 7/7 done. I don't see the 5.1 getting made for a long time. I recall they said it would be done 2 years ago and yet they have not even started. Now they are selling Vendetta models and everything they can think of that they don't even have steel for. If they did have all that steel do you think they could load it up in a U haul like the last move. The tires couldn't support the weight. They are LYING again. Before it was send money in to get things done faster and now it is send money in or we will charge you more for a steel that is not as good as the Delta variant. Maybe they think the Delta 3V is a virus.
 
I don't trust them at their word anymore. They never do what they say. They only ask for more money in all their statements. If things are all worked out in Idaho why are they moving again? All the fanbays told me that Millet would be the answer, Precision ... company would be the answer... The SK line and Essential Line would solve the backlog and you had to reach way out there to believe that they would make the demand go down. Many times they stated that it would solve backlog issues before the GSO line was done then after they got the money they were gone too. I wonder what TX has that could help their LLC as if they have all the equiptment in ID to make the knives why are they moving yet again? Won't this mean they will lose those employees they just hired? If you can finish all your work before Christmas why are you moving now and delaying getting all those knives shipped? Survive Knives business model don't add up...! A certain Guy words reminds me of that teacher on Charlie Brown "wah wah wah".
 
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I asked them about the delta heat treat and they told me the GSO-6s were the last knives to receive it. Also linked me to Guy’s video about the change in HT which I thought was atrociously poorly articulated and seemed like bullshit.

I don't trust them at their word anymore. They never do what they say. They only ask for more money in all their statements. If things are all worked out in Idaho why are they moving again? All the fanbays told me that Millet would be the answer, Precision ... company would be the answer... The SK line and Essential Line would solve the backlog and you had to reach way out there to believe that they would make the demand go down. Many times they stated that it would solve backlog issues before the GSO line was done then after they got the money they were gone too. I wonder what TX has that could help their LLC as if they have all the equiptment in ID to make the knives why are they moving yet again? Won't this mean they will lose those employees they just hired? If you can finish all your work before Christmas why are you moving now and delaying getting all those knives shipped? Survive Knives business model don't add up...! A certain Guy words reminds me of that teacher on Charlie Brown "wah wah wah".
Moving is such chaos. Only reasons I can think of are things are bad with lease in Idaho, with vendors, and Texas has lower taxes and more favorable business environment. It sure won't help production or reliable staffing to uproot a big shop and huge expensive CNC machines to move. Close to Mexican border might be a selling point. There are a lot of machinists in various oil patch areas of Texas, for one.

I will be sure to report anything positive if I receive any of the 3 knives I'm owed.
 
The move is probably a form of- ""How to Look Busy at Work Without Really Working" Sort of like shuffling papers. Spend all your time perfecting the workspace but not actually using it.

It's like Survive! spends all their time refining the process of knife making but not actually making knives. After all these years and thousands upon thousands of hours- How could you Not actually make the knives you've pre-sold?

Their learning curve is a flat line __________________________
 
I just watched one of his YouTube videos. He’s bitching and moaning about millits work on the 3.5’s yet told everyone he had to scrap all the 3.5’s millit made and that is why it’s taken almost a year to deliver the latest batch.
He can’t get the handles to fit on them… the fastener holes don’t line up… looks like he’s wallowing out the holes with a cordless drill so he can make them fit.

yet they are almost completed with a run of the new bushcraft knife…
 
The move is no doubt a result of scummy scamming behavior. Burnt all the bridges. Time to move again. Con artist 101.
 
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The move is probably a form of- ""How to Look Busy at Work Without Really Working" Sort of like shuffling papers. Spend all your time perfecting the workspace but not actually using it.

It's like Survive! spends all their time refining the process of knife making but not actually making knives. After all these years and thousands upon thousands of hours- How could you Not actually make the knives you've pre-sold?

Their learning curve is a flat line __________________________

Yes. Shuffling papers. Image of the pursuit of perfection, but not many "really good" knives make it out the door compared with quantity of LONG booked orders.

Actually, I think their learning curve has been SUPER STEEP. Guy has said he is not a machinist by trade. Wow. That's a tough lack of skills to have, when you want perfection out of a machine shop and aren't willing to ream mounting holes, touch up grinds, and fit a lot of handles and sheaths along the way of the STEEP learning curve with CNC machines.

Product should be rolling out the doors, and we should be receiving reports of delivered knives, based on the ballsy "Comeback Tour" video series.
 
Yes. Shuffling papers. Image of the pursuit of perfection, but not many "really good" knives make it out the door compared with quantity of LONG booked orders.

Actually, I think their learning curve has been SUPER STEEP. Guy has said he is not a machinist by trade. Wow. That's a tough lack of skills to have, when you want perfection out of a machine shop and aren't willing to ream mounting holes, touch up grinds, and fit a lot of handles and sheaths along the way of the STEEP learning curve with CNC machines.

Product should be rolling out the doors, and we should be receiving reports of delivered knives, based on the ballsy "Comeback Tour" video series.
Yes. Total bullshit excuses from them. They expect people to believe that they had to scrap a huge batch of knives? All Millets fault too? Who makes a few hundred blades before assuring that they are in tolerance? Nobody!

Does anyone know what's happened with Millet? Did Survive put them out of business?
 
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