Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

GAGL said:
just watched the video...felt a bit like a defendand with his lawyer.

calling their critics on BF keyboard-warriors with no real jobs and lives is just wrong and not very professional.
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Particularly since they dug this hole themselves. If they had simply delivered on the orders they took they would still be a BFC darling and have a ton of folks here clambering for a knife.
 
Someone over in the comments on the video mentioned "they knew they were investing in a startup (paraphrased)." I certainly didn't. I thought I was going to get all the knives I ordered in 2016 by at least 2018. I mean, you know, I'll spot them an extra year on a 6 month expectation. If they had truly done it as "crowd-funding," that would be a different story. But they're saying they basically crowd-funded their business on the backs of people that ordered knives and didn't know they were investing in a business that would return on that investment for 5 years. Maybe they're even being truthful (I'll even accept they are in the video). But that doesn't relieve the frustration at their continual mistakes.

If they really wanted to take a positive step in the direction of regaining credibility, they would send out to all their "investors" (not SK's words) that there is going to be an additional delay in "us" getting our knives, because they need to put a few large orders in front of us in order to keep afloat, and eventually get our orders to us. THAT would be transparency. Because putting that video along with the recent newsletter where they were looking for people for order thousands of $$ of knives, that is the only thing that is going to keep them afloat. Whether they want to actually admit it or not. I can already see that I won't get my 5.1 until sometime in 2022 (MAYBE), even though they are saying they expect them to be shipping by October/November (2021). I don't see how they are going to keep the lights on to make that delivery without getting large orders in and getting those done.
 
It's just that they're being force to use the "Ugly Betty Trucking co", they're not up to Guy and Ellie's normal standards but "Super Excellent Deluxe Premium Exclusive Freight Transport" recently stopped answering their phone calls. It's not Survive's fault.

Ugly Betty Trucking co guarantees the freight will be within 100 yards of the property 60% of the time. So pretty decent odds.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Particularly since they dug this hole themselves. If they had simply delivered on the orders they took they would still be a BFC darling and have a ton of folks here clambering for a knife.
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i agree with you. i also understand Guys' standpoint of needing a steady cash flow to keep the shop running.i think they priced their product too low.

this whole crowd funding thing was a bad idea from the start. they should have went with a big investor or a loan from a bank etc.
 
GAGL said:
i agree with you. i also understand Guys' standpoint of needing a steady cash flow to keep the shop running.i think they priced their product too low.

this whole crowd funding thing was a bad idea from the start. they should have went with a big investor or a loan from a bank etc.
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I would disagree that they priced their product too low. Not at the time they were taking pre-orders (2015/2016). IMO, they were actually rather high for what they were, but they were good knives, and I was 5 years stupider at that time.
 
r8shell said:
Loans from banks charge interest, tho.
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yes,unfortunately they do and i'm not a fan of it. that's why i was first optimistic when crowdfunding became a thing..but the best crowdfunding can't help if you don't have a good business plan.
dogboye said:
I would disagree that they priced their product too low. Not at the time they were taking pre-orders (2015/2016). IMO, they were actually rather high for what they were, but they were good knives, and I was 5 years stupider at that time.
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i believe i paid around 180$ for my 3.5, shipping included. keep in mind that 3V was the new "supersteel" at that time and on top of that they came with PHT.

i paid more for less knife in the past and i must say the quality is there. i measured my knife with digital calipers and the tolerances are very tight. the edge grinds are extremely well done and the sheath is one of the best i had so far,altough i prefer taco-sheats.

i think they easily could've charged 20$ more.

i'm glad you're smarter than five years ago :)
 
GAGL said:
i agree with you. i also understand Guys' standpoint of needing a steady cash flow to keep the shop running.i think they priced their product too low.

this whole crowd funding thing was a bad idea from the start. they should have went with a big investor or a loan from a bank etc.
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Priced their product too low? How do you figure? Up until VERY recently (and I'm not convinced this isn't still the case), Guy was having every(!) element (!!!) of his friggin' product made by other people!!! Go back and read through the now-closed S?K archived section. Survive?Knives wasn't:

- Cutting or forging their own knives
- Heat treating their own knives
- Making their own sheathes
- Making their own handle scales

Guy is a scumbag who was essentially taking years to bolt parts that other companies made together, and put an edge on it and ship out. Simple as that. So, I'd say they were priced about right for what they were, glorified kit knives.

The number of sackwashers in those old threads talking about how he was such a "perfectionist" and that "takes time" when sharpening a knife on a jig is one of the easiest and quickest things to do, is mindboggling. I don't know how people could be that stupid.

Also, I don't care how many pics of machines they post up, I don't think they're making anything themselves to this day.
 
I had no love or first hand hate for this company. as I never had any interest in what they were having made or making..whatever was the case when.

I watched a few minutes of the video. it didn't come across to me like I think they thought it would. to fans it probably came across as they wanted. to dissenters it likely came across as snarky, arrogant, finger pointing, excuses and the exact opposite of transparent and honest.

I couldn't watch it all. it was too long and too long winded, plus I still have no interest in their products.

theyd be better off to spend their time and energy fulfilling orders, catching up and hitting time tables. than talking a lot about themselves. my opinion, but actions do speak much louder than lots of repeated words.

good luck to those that are owed product. good luck to them, digging their way out of the hole they made. hopefully they do, for the good of everyone.
 
They told me the knife I ordered in March would be shipped here in the next week. So we’ll see. Either way it goes I’ll report back on what happens.
 
they priced their product too low
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No and it's not the reason they're in a $500,000 hole. They failed to produce the knives that were sold and paid for (in advance) in a timely manner.

They dicked around and spent the prepayments instead of making + shipping knives that were paid for.

They've been called a Ponzi Scheme for years and they seem to have admitted it- They have to presell an unmade knife now to build and ship one paid for years ago.
 
Gotta be frustrating having to wait years. I had to wait years for my first Morseth. I was dying, but I knew AG would come through.

The primary lesson to be learned is: don't go into manufacturing!

This is the title of a 26 Jan 2019 Wall Street Journal Article: Tesla Should Pull an Apple: Leave ‘Production Hell’ to Other People

These are smart words. Creating a production line from scratch has to be one of the greatest intellectual achievements in human history. Just ask any Production Engineer. Don't ask an accountant, they will tell you double entry book keeping was the greatest intellectual achievement in human history.

You guys who put a deposit down, well if Survive! goes bust, you are really hosed, you are not getting a knife. As they said in the video, they put the money into manufacturing facilities. And, they encountered all sorts of problems that they never envisioned would happen, which put production further, and further behind. Well, welcome to Production Hell where nothing works as intended, and all suppliers lie!

I don't know if that was the agreement, you give them money, and they give you a knife, eventually. But if it was, that was the agreement. Six years is a very long eventually, but, they said they will honor the original agreements. Pray they stay in business long enough to send you a knife. Whether you believe them or not, waiting eventually is the only way you are getting your knife.

I hope that Survive! is successful, I hope they deliver all your knives, and I hope your knives are all what you expected. Give it enough time, and the frustrations will fade away once you have your new toy in your hands. And you can tell all your friends how you were bursting from frustration waiting for the thing to arrive.

Wishing you luck. And if you get your knives, I would like to know how you like them.
 
Andy the Aussie said:
....... I think less people would be pi$$ed if was a DEPOSIT taken. These bottom feeding Cu....errrrr prick$ took full payment up front.
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Yes, I looked at the prices, not cheap. But many custom knife makers want a full deposit up front, and they will take years to deliver. Wish I had put a full deposit down on a Loveless, might have been many years, but, look at how much his knives have gone up.

I understand the frustration and the uncertainty. I hope the company does not fold, as those who gave money in good faith will be out.
 
Quiet said:
Priced their product too low? How do you figure? Up until VERY recently (and I'm not convinced this isn't still the case), Guy was having every(!) element (!!!) of his friggin' product made by other people!!! Go back and read through the now-closed S?K archived section. Survive?Knives wasn't:

- Cutting or forging their own knives
- Heat treating their own knives
- Making their own sheathes
- Making their own handle scales
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how do i figure?

just my personal opinion,which is subjective since i don't know their profit margin,production numbers etc.

the knife feels really solid and is a great cutter. i used it hard and so far no damages.

how do you know it's not worth the money they ask for? have you ever used one?

also,outsourcing production steps usually ramps up the cost of a product.
 
braillediver said:
No and it's not the reason they're in a $500,000 hole. They failed to produce the knives that were sold and paid for (in advance) in a timely manner.

They dicked around and spent the prepayments instead of making + shipping knives that were paid for.

They've been called a Ponzi Scheme for years and they seem to have admitted it- They have to presell an unmade knife now to build and ship one paid for years ago.
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obviously they didn't manage to produce their knives in a timely manner,thats why said i think they priced their product too low. their pricing didn't align with their quality standards.

again,just speculation,since i don't know their profit margins etc.

on what did they spend the prepayments?

did they use them otherwise or did they use it on new equipment etc?

can you point out where they admit of being a ponzi or is this your interpretation?

again,not attacking you personally,just trying to be objective.

edit: will you ever point out where i was allegedly shilling for SK,so i can better myself?

calling people names without backing it up is not what forums are meant for
 
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Forums are for fanboys and shills who come out of the woodwork to make excuses and defend the indefensible.

10 posts here in the last 2 weeks saying "They're not so bad". They've only been messed up for 8 years- Just give them a chance...................
 
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