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Survive Knives! Epic Faiure:

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by first alchemy, Nov 6, 2016.

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  1. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    On a separate presale, yes. On the monday sale 4.7, with the quoted 15 day timeline (and subsequently stated and missed timelines), no — it shipped, in the end, right before I was going to request one for that knife.

    The refunds are immaterial to the issue: sure you can request a refund on a late knife, but when the pattern is that every knife sold with a stated timeline is delivered far past that timeline, there's a pattern of either negligence or deception taking place. I'm not sure how that's a controversial statement.

    The availability of refunds simply does not excuse blown deadlines.
     
  2. B34NS

    B34NS

    Dec 30, 2013
    Fair 'nough, lots of us have been there. I'm sure Guy has a inbox full of "Deer season just opened, where's my knife". Although I've been lucky to not know anyone willing to give up their tags simply because they don't have the knife they want.

    Sure it is, if you felt the need to cancel one, why not cancel all? If in fact it is a matter of principle right? What is controversial is saying that they are in any way intentionally negligent or deceiving customers without providing evidence. Would you be fine with people on the internet saying that about your small business?

    No, it's not intended to. It'd be one thing if you sent them money and they refused to return your money or never sent you a knife, but that's not the case is it?

    Not trying to minimize yours or anyone's frustrations, but alleging foul play isn't what I'd call exactly fair either. A fair warning to those new to ordering would suffice, would it not?
     
  3. Cteve

    Cteve

    465
    Oct 1, 2015
    I wonder how long they will carry on like this, clearly they need to do something or Survive will not Survive.
     
  4. first alchemy

    first alchemy Banned BANNED

    158
    May 13, 2015
    Let's see how about when you call them and speak to Ellie or guy and they give you estimated months and then they don't come through? Or how about email? I have Ellie after placing an order for a gso 10 tell me when the knife is going to be shipping in 2 months this is when they first started the preorder sales campaign 15 months later no knife. And then 8 months after that cancelled order, 1 month later still no refund.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  5. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    I'm sorry, but lying repeatedly about when a knife will be delivered (again, I'm not talking about the loose horizon on preorder knives — I'm talking about actual point of sale commitments, and subsequent direct communications from the company) is misinformation, and is actually either negligent or deceptive behaviour on the part of the company.

    NOBODY'S Alleging that knives didn't get delivered, eventually (very eventually in some cases), or that refunds were not forthcoming (though often slow, and requiring hounding). What people are alleging is a pattern of deceptive presale and post-sale communication from the company. That is foul play, as it's convincing people to buy knives that they mightn't otherwise buy, based on misinformation. Not everyone researches every company that they purchase a product from to see if they routinely don't live up to the commitments made on their website, and receiving a refund after the company misinforms the purchaser, and subsequently gives them the runaround, doesn't absolve it as a customer experience, and therefore merits bad feedback.

    Particularly since it's a widespread pattern — this isn't remotely isolated. It's the rule, not the exception. It is a very real problem when an entire category of sales that a company offers happens under falsely stated timelines in the POS wording and subsequent direct communications.

    So far nobody, to my knowledge, has been actually scammed out of their money in the end, but what's happening from the point of sale to the receipt of purchase is fairly rotten.
     
  6. Silver Needle

    Silver Needle

    Jul 14, 2014
    Has your knife maker friend been able to create an account yet?
     
  7. stonesell

    stonesell Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    If the Survive! business model is based on the customer being both banker and buyer, then the wait times will continue, since the money is needed for future production. If these knives were readily available, I bet that they would be able to sell a lot more. The quality seems to be really good, but the wait time issues are only for the serious buyer to endure. I support USA businesses, and I hope that they find a way to speed up the process, while maintaining quailty.
     
  8. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    I do run a small business, and if I never delivered anything on time, and lied/misled clients about revised timelines, I'd absolutely expect that they'd vocally complain and admonish others about my failings, yes. That's why I don't blow deadlines with my customers if at all possible, and if I do, I handle it like a professional and negotiate a new solution with them directly.

    Like it or not, you reap what you sew.
     
  9. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    Hah! Don't hold your breath ;)
     
  10. first alchemy

    first alchemy Banned BANNED

    158
    May 13, 2015
    Have you gotten off survive knives nuts yet?
     
  11. B34NS

    B34NS

    Dec 30, 2013
    I could see how that'd be frustrating.

    Was that for new spec GSO 10 or an old one?
     
  12. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    Are you actively trying to get banned? Seriously?
     
  13. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    Lots of us agree with your point but the way you are going about it you won't be around to discuss it much longer......
     
  14. first alchemy

    first alchemy Banned BANNED

    158
    May 13, 2015
    Silver Needle is the biggest fan boy for survive knives. He backs them up no matter what. I have zero respect for him. Anybody that endorces a business that lies and deceives their customers should be banned from this forum.
     
  15. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    Quoted for posterity (and evidence of instability).
     
  16. shinyedges

    shinyedges Unfaltering Love & Undeviating Will

    Jun 5, 2012
    Are you purposefully being ignorant? People are telling you that you will be banned if you continue acting the fool.

    You have a valid argument, go about it the appropriate methods and others will sympathize, act a fool and get banned and laughed at...

    Doesn't get much more straight up then that.
     
  17. B34NS

    B34NS

    Dec 30, 2013
    Again, fair point, I could totally see how some would feel that way. I personally wouldn't be comfortable equating moving the figurative goalposts as intentionally lying though.

    Some have alleged that though, but when asked their short on details. Is the purchaser not responsible for researching something before sending their money over the internet?

    I thought the times given were pretty easy to understand, as estimates, not check the mail on X date. If they had no deadline would you have still bought one?

    How is it rotten, infuriating to some sure, if this has no effect on the quality of the end product? Were you not sold on the knife, not the wait times?
     
  18. B34NS

    B34NS

    Dec 30, 2013
    As a small business owner you must know that you can't make everyone happy right?

    So if they had communicated better, you wouldn't feel they were negligent or deceiving?
     
  19. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    If it's not lying (as in knowing you won't hit a deadline, but stating it unambiguously, and NOT as an estimate), then it's repeated incompetence. You can't repeatedly make the same mistake and have it not be one or the other. You're either aware that you won't hit the stated deadline, but state it anyway (a lie), or you're not aware, despite never hitting the deadline (incompetence, failure to learn from mistakes). Is there any other way to interpret it?

    Do you never buy anything from a professional looking business, assuming that their stated delivery policies are accurate? The vast majority of online purchases I've ever made came through on time. And those that didn't were the exception to the rule. Survive literally never delivers on time, so far as anyone's been able to ascertain.

    Sure, caveat emptor, but at some point it becomes a bad business practice, and people have every right — and are in the right — to decry it.

    I quickly learned about the estimated delivery of the 4.1 being highly improbable, so cancelled that order. The factory second monday sales were a different story. At the point of sale, those bore a hard statement — not anything that could be remotely construed as an estimate — that they'd deliver within a specified timeframe. They did not. Subsequently, specific commitments were made by Survive, to me (and others), via private communication. Also missed. That, again, is either deception or incompetence. What is the alternate interpretation of this pattern, if not those?

    No: on the second purchase I made, I would not have purchased without the hard stated timeline. Therefore, missing it was either deception or failure on their part.

    I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion — I'm just trying to clarify my view, as for some reason it seems folks are willing to forgive a lot of ambiguity and shiftiness from this company, that wouldn't remotely be tolerated from another business.

    I was sold both, in fact. When you sell anything as a business, and make commitments to how your product is delivered, the entire experience is what's being purchased along with the product (warranties are in the same category of 'value-adds' or 'stated parameters' to a product).

    If you consistently state that you'll do something as a business, and consistently don't, how exactly is that not rotten? How is that acceptable customer service?

    Answer: according to just about every customer protection and trade entity in the world, it isn't. It's a failure to deal with your customers ethically and honestly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  20. timichango

    timichango Gold Member Gold Member

    767
    Apr 26, 2013
    You definitely can't, but I wouldn't expect any customer of mine to be happy if I wasn't meeting my commitments to them. If you fail to do what you say, that's not something that falls under the 'unsatisfiable customer' banner. That's plain business negligence, and breach of contract.

    Yes. Deception is a form of bad communication. If they hadn't stated hard timelines, I wouldn't feel that they'd been negligent or deceiving, since there would be no stated standard that they'd failed to achieve. And absent a stated standard, I would not have placed a second order.

    Pretty cut and dry.
     
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