TAD Gear

Posted by VoodooSan:

so I'm going to confine this to two VERY specific questions. I'd really like to hear VERY specific answers, OK?

Before the deal was finalized, did TAD tell you, TWICE, that they could not insure or guarantee delivery of your purchase, because it was an overseas APO?

Did you agree to those terms?
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I think that the 2 specific questions would be:

1. Does USPS offer insurance on parcels shipped to APO's/FPO's ?


2. If told no. . .was the question asked, "What service do you (USPS) offer that ensures that "my customer" will receive this parcel ?


The answer to #1 is yes. And yes. . .it's very unfortunate that TAD was told different.

And the answer to #2 is ? ? ? ? ?


I just don't see how the person that ordered a product can be held responsible for false information that was provided to him. :confused: A customer must rely on information that is provided by the vendor. . .may it be the information about the knives or the shipping services that the vender offers.
 
If I buy a stock and the broker tells me that there is a chance to loose money on this deal, can I four weeks later come back and whine about loosing money?

I have commited to a deal on terms that both I, the buyer and him, the seller, have agreed upon. A basic trust that is needed in all free markets.

What´s the problem?

The only problem I see here is PS own problems about standing by his word. Obviously he can´t be trusted. He didn´t keep his word because he didn´t keep his end of the deal: STFU and take it like a man.

Don´t do business with terms you can´t adhere to.

/Colinz
 
Originally posted by Colinz
If I buy a stock and the broker tells me that there is a chance to loose money on this deal, can I four weeks later come back and whine about loosing money?

I have commited to a deal on terms that both I, the buyer and him, the seller, have agreed upon. A basic trust that is needed in all free markets.

What´s the problem?

The only problem I see here is PS own problems about standing by his word. Obviously he can´t be trusted. He didn´t keep his word because he didn´t keep his end of the deal: STFU and take it like a man.

Don´t do business with terms you can´t adhere to.

/Colinz
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edited incorrect info :footinmou
 
Again, I would ask if the credit card used to pay has a loss, damage protection. That may help the buyer.

I think that the terms were clearly expressed between the two prior to shipment. Whether the information was accurate or not is a red herring. Makes no difference. They agreed to terms and had a contract.

The only thing that changes that would be if the agreement was illegal. It wasn't. I believe TAD had email communications indicating the buyer accepted the risks. It sucks, and I wish PS had recieved his knife. (Still might after the Korean gentleman is done playing with it.)

I think that if you start arguing that the terms of agreement between parties are open to interpretation after the fact, you open a whole new can of worms. There are threads on how to have a good trading/ dealing experience. They strongly advise terms be specified and agreed to prior to shipping. These were.

TAD continues to expend resource to make this deal right for the buyer. Staff time, phone calls, etc. It is not as if they abandonded their customer. They have asked him to deal with them privately. They have asked to be called, if I recall correctly.

Perhaps Partial Serrations absence is explained by having taken this to a private discussion?
 
I purchase quite a bit of hardware for my various hobbies on-line, both through recognized retailers and private individuals.

I've purchased about a half-dozen times from TAD Gear now, and my last purchase was over $1,000 -- they've never done me wrong.

I do not know partialserrations personally, however, both from individuals supporting him here and through others that I know of in-private whom I very much trust, I also believe him to be a gentleman of character.

The issue with partialserrations' ban from the USN is not to be confused with anything that ties to TAD Gear *_except_* for the fact that it was the precipitating factor. TAD Gear did not effect the ban, the Administrators of the USN did, and as such, this rather had to do with partialserrations' approach to this conflict instead of his complaint against TAD. Please do not confuse the issues here, they are completely separate.

While I do believe that TAD's staff should become better versed in USPS shipping policies, I do not believe them to be at-fault here.

An agreement was made between TAD -- the seller -- and partialserrations -- the buyer -- under which it was exceptionally and absolutely clear that this item would not be insured (generic term) against loss. Should the buyer have then decided either against this agreement or have pursued research into USPS shipping policy, that would be his sole responsibility, but as-is, partialserrations agreed to the terms of the deal, and he is the only one who can be held responsible.

As to TAD not answering e-mails during the holidays, it should be noted that their retail website was updated DAYS prior to their scheduled closing with this very information, and that this information was publically available to anyone visiting their website. The sacrifice of one's holidays for work is one's own choice, and should not be imposed upon others. Although my wife works 80-hour weeks (and before this year, often 100+ hour) because she's a physician, we cannot expect a bank to operate on the same hours.

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
PartialSerrations should dispute the charge to his credit card company. PS will win this dispute as there is no proof the merchandise was ever shipped.

Any business has a responsibility to know the correct shipping rules for carriers they utilize. Any business also has a responsibility to ensure the product they received payment for is delivered in good condition or refund the buyer's money. They should not conduct business under circumstances where they cannot honor those responsibilities. It is poor business judgement to do anything else, especially where the results of any deal gone sour are likely to be publically posted. The cost of replacing the lost item is much cheaper than the business they stand to loose due to negative publicity.

PartialSerrations, I think your knife may arrive sometime in the hopefully near future but if it doesn't, send me your APO box and I'll send you a good fixed blade or folder as a thanks for your service to our country.
 
Originally posted by Chief

PartialSerrations, I think your knife may arrive sometime in the hopefully near future but if it doesn't, send me your APO box and I'll send you a good fixed blade or folder as a thanks for your service to our country.
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You're a great man.
 
I usually don't post in this type of thread, but will break my rule this time. Before all this got blown into some big deal on the forum, you should have picked up the phone and called Patrick. I am sure something would have been worked out if it was handled the right way. Too bad that it has gone this far. :(
 
Hawaiian. . .the kid is stationed in Korea. Young GI's don't make that kind of frog skins.


On target as usual Chief ! :)
 
Originally posted by Chief

Any business has a responsibility to know the correct shipping rules for carriers they utilize. Any business also has a responsibility to ensure the product they received payment for is delivered in good condition or refund the buyer's money. They should not conduct business under circumstances where they cannot honor those responsibilities. It is poor business judgement to do anything else, especially where the results of any deal gone sour are likely to be publically posted. The cost of replacing the lost item is much cheaper than the business they stand to loose due to negative publicity.
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EXACTLY. I would never ship uninsured even if the customer insisted. Why? To avoid situations like this. The customer will agree with uninsured shipping in his e-mails but what are those e-mails? Just e-mails - nothing else! Then the package gets lost and .... he will ask for refund or another shipment. You have no proof - you lose money. You have proof (the package went insured = registered) you get insurence if the package was not delivered. It takes some time (and some extra expense on your end) but is worth it. Customers change their mind often but you are prepared....

David

PS: I quite often buy knives from US dealres and I ask them to ship the packages insured and registered (I am willing to pay full shipping charges). They often do not do it to save on shipping - if the package was lost I would not hesitate to get refund through my CC company.
 
Hey Guys....

Spyken....

Didn't see your post until I posted mine...
Sorry dude,, didn't want to steal your thunder...

Good on you... Thats a fantastic gesture...


Well this certainly sucks....

Tell you what....

I for one, am ready to pitch in and help pay for a new (Whatever it was).

PS is in the service, overseas I believe on long term duty, and for that has my utmost respect, and admiration.

We all know the US Military ain't no Get Rich Quick Deal,,, So...

Lets see what we can do to help out this Doughboy, who is protecting All of our freedoms. It's the absolute least I can do...

So who's with me? I Challenge you to step up to the plate!
Dig deep Boys!!!Lets extend Christmas couple of weeks or so...

ttyle

Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
 
My own conclusion and opinion regarding this thread:

What do you call a business that:

1. If you buy from them and ask them to ship an item even if it isn´t insured, they will do it.

2. If you buy from them and ask for insurance they will try to fill you needs and inform you before the deal is done if there are any problems.

Answer:

A business with excellent service.

Too bad that there is at least one person trying to take advantage of a situation like the one discussed in this thread. A person that doesn´t seem to know what honesty is, even if he is in the military.

Now people want to give stuff away to a person that behaves this way. I´m sorry but I can´t understand it. Why not send your free stuff to someone in the military that hasn´t behaved this way, sorry not my business to tell other people what to do with their belongings.

This thread makes me very sad. :(

/Colinz
 
Well said.


Two things I am sure of.
TAD had nothing to do with his getting banned from another forum.
Had he handled it differently TAD would have sent another. They've done it before.
 
To all those out there, thank you so much for your kind gester to get me a new knife and your acts of generousity. That does make me feel good. Your support is so appreciated. I however would rather you all keep your hard earned money for your friends and families. I don't expect any thing in return. Being a servicemember is my job and I volunteered for. As for dishonesty, well it sort of saddens me that someone thinks of me as someone wanting something for free or using my status as a soldier in order to gain profit and please. If they knew the facts, they wouldn't say that. They would be upset if their shipment didn't arrive on time either. I contacted my credit card company and after that TAD gear sent me an email saying they would give me a refund. It should have never had to come down this. I would have been happy with a 50 / 50 split. If the karambit does arrive, I will send it back to TAD gear because I don't want anything I didn't pay for. Thank you all for replying to my forum. Take care!!


IF WAR IS HELL, TAKE A BETTER PITCHFORK THAN THE DEVIL
 
I for one am glad that TAD is giving PartialSerrations a refund. That is what's called "excellent customer service."

GOOD ON YOU TAD ! ! !


Posted by Colinz:

Too bad that there is at least one person trying to take advantage of a situation like the one discussed in this thread. A person that doesn´t seem to know what honesty is, even if he is in the military.

Now people want to give stuff away to a person that behaves this way. I´m sorry but I can´t understand it. Why not send your free stuff to someone in the military that hasn´t behaved this way, sorry not my business to tell other people what to do with their belongings.
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Take advantage of ? :confused: :rolleyes:

Dishonest ? :confused: :rolleyes:

Poor behavior ? :confused: :rolleyes:


If a company intentiionally and deliberately refuses to to refund/reship out of spite. . . :barf:

Now that's sad !

Knowing that. . .RUN. . .DO NOT WALK. . .TO ANOTHER DEALER ! ! !
 
ALCON,

I've tried to stay out of this thread in the hope that it would just die (however, as write this, it is still at the top of the list in GB&U--don't feel that I'm giving it that much of a bump).

First (Responsibility). I've used TAD's service to an APO (and a couple TDY FPOs) in the past--they have ALWAYS made sure I understood that they could not insure parcels to APOs/FPOs--I always considered this a contract between TAD and myself. It was my call and responsibility!!

Several of you can not get past this fact (it was agreed to between BOTH parties)...essentially word is your bond. For a military member (and most probably a fellow soldier), I hold this value (integrity / honesty) a little bit higher than I would on someone else (fair or not--we in the military do this to one another). What is so hard to understand about that (that it was agreed to between BOTH parties)?

Oh, okay, TAD should have known better concerning insurance. Yep, I wouldn't take the word of my local subject matter expert (my local POST OFFICE!) either? Several of you expect TAD to know something that the supposed USPS "experts" don't know. Unfair and misdirected IMO. Several of you have pointed out that this is incorrect USPS policy and I imagine TAD will inquire with their local shipping office as to what is up with the policy. However, that is moot concerning THIS transaction.

Second (overseas isn't the same as the States). Several people have either never had to live overseas via the military (some-not all- have made incorrect assumptions on options) or their memories have faded. I've been darn glad that TAD would ship to me under the conditions we agreed to. There are certain things that they carry that others don't have (not talking just knives here--they have a whole different section of "adventure gear"). It would suck (rather majorly) if TAD said "to hell with it--not worth the bother to ship APOs/FPOs...". A bunch of guys and gals out there would have lost one BIG option for getting stuff from the States. Doubt they will stop, but several have advocated this. FYI, the ROK is not the land of McDonalds and 24 hour Wal-Marts. Options are limited (living via AAFES will get you through, but that is about it).

Last (to Partial Serrations):

In your original post on this subject, you said
I receive knives from the states frequently and so having an APO address isn't a valid reason or legitimate excuse for them not getting my knife to me.
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I hope you (now) understand that you tried to go back on your word (what you agreed to concerning insured to an APO) with TAD and conducted a character assasination on their business (ie-they lied). This is getting rather long (and I don't like people that dissect everything someone writes), but you also tried to hold them accountable (same post) for not responding to emails /closed over Christmas and New Year's). What is up with that (rhetorical--no response needed)--it was clearly posted at the top of their webpage--in red if I remember. Bottom line, don't try to bend the rules/renegotiate after the fact--more is expected from you (at least from one of your fellow servicemen).

Airborne!
Glenmore
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
Well said.


Two things I am sure of.
TAD had nothing to do with his getting banned from another forum.
Had he handled it differently TAD would have sent another. They've done it before.
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I agree. Sometimes we forget that the people behind the phones/emails are people. Like all of us, they want respect, and like all of us, they don't know everything.

A lot of people here expected TAD to know the complete rules and regs of shipping through a Post Office, when the Post Office Employees themselves don't know...that is like taking my car to a mechanic to get it fixed, knowing the job well enough to do it myself....or learning how to fly a plane, so I can ride in one.....

I would expect the mechanic and pilot to know their jobs well enough so that I didn't have to know it for them....I also expect my Postal workers to know the ins and outs of their jobs also....

As we have learned, they don't know everything either....

And someone brought up the question of 'where is the proof that TAD sent it out?' What kind of bull is that?

I suppose someone could ask a similar question, 'Where is the proof that PS didn't recieve it?'

Anyone with half a brain can see the answers to both of those questions...

It is written in their reputations....so questions like that shouldn't even be brought up....
 
GigOne wrote:
If a company intentiionally and deliberately refuses to to refund/reship out of spite. . .
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Out of spite?

Don´t you understand how a free market works?

The terms were agreed upon by both parties.

Edit: deleted a stupid remark from me to Gigone -here-

/Colinz
 
One of the bad things that could come from this situation would be that TAD will now decide that it isn't worth the hassle to ship to APOs and stop doing so. I wouldn't blame them a bit if this was the decision that they made. They can't be expected to take the loss everytime someone doesn't want to follow through with an agreement they made with TAD.

I commend TAD for their decision to return PartialSerrations money, but do not believe they were morally or ethicly required to do so. When you come to an agreement with someone be prepared to live up to that agreement. Don't try to back out of the agreement after things you agree to come back to bite you in the ass.
 
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