Teaser for the Hammer Men

so for all of those who don't know any better....how is this hammer different than other hammers?.....can someoen explain a little about what u want in a hammer and how this one provides what you want?.....ryan

p.s.-tai my integral slicer is holdin up great!-i gotta send u some pics with all that patina on it!:thumbup:
 
Tai,

I am interested (seriously, in spite of what follows).

I love the idea of a hammer that will automatically turn me into a pro when I hold it it my hand and make me able to strike what ever I aim at...especially a hammer like this one that also tells me what to aim at too! Man, next thing you know you'll invent a hammer that will allow me to finish blades while it hammers out other ones!

All the best, Phil
 
Looks nice to use. Its like a japanese cross between a cross pein and a ball pein if that makes any sense what so ever.

Jamie
 
Great looking Hammer Tai :thumbup: and Beautiful work on the machining Nathan :thumbup: :thumbup:

Just curious, was the final decision to use the 4150 @ 54 HRC as stated in the linked thread ?



:cool:
 
We decided on 4150, 52-54, for the prototype. I'm going to test it out a while after I get it and see how it holds up, before we do the first run. Does that sound about right,... or too hard, too soft?
 
Tai Goo said:
We decided on 4150, 52-54, for the prototype. I'm going to test it out a while after I get it and see how it holds up, before we do the first run. Does that sound about right,... or too hard, too soft?
Click to expand...

It sure is a looker! What are you doing for the heat treatment?
 
Thanks Phil,
Nathan is doing the heat treating,... maybe he will chime in. I think it's a controlled electric furnace, and oil quench. He would know the specifics better.

However, since this is primarily a "hot forging" hammer, I was thinking that maybe just a bit on the hard side might be a good call.
 
Look'n really good guys!!! Nice design Tai! :thumbup:

I am compelled to say that it's a little bit of beautiful irony that mr. forging by the moonlight is having something CNC machined! :D But proof that the crazy talented artist is more open minded than some of us may have pegged him to be. ;) :)

Nice to see two talented/skilled craftsmen from such different ends of the spectrum come together to produce something so cool.

Good on 'ya guys!!! :thumbup: :cool: :)
 
Thanks Nick,

I like the whole idea of "primitive" forging hammer meets high tech. :)

Technology has come a long way, and 30 years ago I don't think it would have been probable or practical.

It's something new!
 
So in regards to knifemaking, which is very basic forging comparitively, what does this hammer do that any standard cross peen doesn't? Are you selling a work method/technique to go along with the hammer like Uri Hofi does? You keep saying it helps get down into tight areas, so does a swedish cross peen, pops scale? Any properly dressed and crowned hammer does this.

still don't see any difference on the benefits of this hammer over any properly made and dressed other.
 
Sam Salvati said:
So in regards to knifemaking, which is very basic forging comparitively
Click to expand...

Compared to what??? :confused:

Sam Salvati said:
still don't see any difference on the benefits of this hammer over any properly made and dressed other.
Click to expand...

Can you show us some examples of readily-available hammers that have all of the same characteristics of this one? The cross-pein on a Swedish hammer is much shorter than this one, as far as I can tell.
 
Sam's just jealous because his hammers look like turds on a stick. :D

... seriously though, the geometry and the distribution of weight and mass is different. You can see that. :)
 
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NickWheeler said:
Look'n really good guys!!! Nice design Tai! :thumbup:

I am compelled to say that it's a little bit of beautiful irony that mr. forging by the moonlight is having something CNC machined! :D But proof that the crazy talented artist is more open minded than some of us may have pegged him to be. ;) :)

Nice to see two talented/skilled craftsmen from such different ends of the spectrum come together to produce something so cool.

Good on 'ya guys!!! :thumbup: :cool: :)
Click to expand...






Yeah, I think so too. I have a great deal of respect for Tai and his artistic accomplishments. I'm not sure that all of us have developed the eye to appreciate the lines, proportion and flow that he achieves so effortlessly, but the collectors have noticed. But I think all of us recognize his forging skill.

Tai-Goo-Integral-Knord-001-4.jpg


I have always enjoyed looking at his work, and like many of you, I have been a bystander in some of the metallurgy threads he has "participated" in his own "special" way. For these two reasons I commissioned a thin W2 slicer from him. Because I wanted to own a "Goo" (and it is a beauty) and I was curious how good his HT actually was. Well, that simple knife has outperformed almost every knife I own in various tests. So, he may ruffle some feathers, but I have come to realize that he knows his stuff and I respect that. So I feel honored to work with him on a project because I feel he is truly a master at his craft.
 
Working with Nathan has been fun and educational,... which is a big part of the reason I decided to go this route. :)

Thanks Nathan!
 
Farmer Phil said:
It sure is a looker! What are you doing for the heat treatment?
Click to expand...

I don't have my notes in front of me, but going from memory:

Unlike most of the steel I work with, 4150 does not come from the mill in a good microstructure suitable for austenitization. You could harden it, but it wouldn't be very good. So, it will be annealed from 1625 and air cooled which will dissolve a lot of the gunk and form a fine pearlite, then normalized from soaking at something like 1400 and 1200 to be somewhat sheroidized and finer grained, then machined, then austenitized at 1525 (I think, my notes aren't in front of me) and quenched in an 11 second quench oil and tempered at 400 twice for a target hardness of HRC 53. After that I'll type a prodigious run on sentence, then they will be tumbled.

This is hard for a hammer, but I believe part of the reasoning is an improved rebound compared to a softer hammer. That value came from Tai and his considerable experience with forging. I'm just a button monkey. You can always draw it back if you plan on bludgeoning your anvil, but it is a lot harder to add more carbon...

The relatively high hardness is the reason behind 4150 rather than the much more common (and less expensive and easier to machine) 4140. If ya'll decide you want a soft hammer my lathe and I would appreciate it. But I'm inclined to go with Tai on this one.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I don't have my notes in front of me, but going from memory:

Unlike most of the steel I work with, 4150 does not come from the mill in a good microstructure suitable for austenitization. You could harden it, but it wouldn't be very good. So, it will be annealed from 1625 and air cooled which will dissolve a lot of the gunk and form a fine pearlite, then normalized from soaking at something like 1400 and 1200 to be somewhat sheroidized and finer grained, then machined, then austenitized at 1525 (I think, my notes aren't in front of me) and quenched in an 11 second quench oil and tempered at 400 twice for a target hardness of HRC 53. After that I'll type a prodigious run on sentence, then they will be tumbled.

This is hard for a hammer, but I believe part of the reasoning is an improved rebound compared to a softer hammer. That value came from Tai and his considerable experience with forging. I'm just a button monkey. You can always draw it back if you plan on bludgeoning your anvil, but it is a lot harder to add more carbon...

The relatively high hardness is the reason behind 4150 rather than the much more common (and less expensive and easier to machine) 4140. If ya'll decide you want a soft hammer my lathe and I would appreciate it. But I'm inclined to go with Tai on this one.
Click to expand...


The first hammer I got was a cheap harbor freight, 3 pound "blacksmith's" hammer

I used it for a couple of years before I upgraded to a "M.O.B." hammer from Kayne and Sons, made a HUGE difference. and the only appreciable difference was the hardness.

that harbor freight hammer was dinged up and soft my M.O.B. hammer is much harder,and works much much cleaner.

my deductive reasoning leads me to believe that a harder hammer is better
 
I was inspired to make a similiar hammer after seeing the pics of Tai's prototype. I emailed Tai to get his permission before speaking of it publicly. It also is HT'd on the hard end of the scale. The rebound is enough to make all the difference in the world.
To get a hammer of that weight in a standard cross pein you'll end up a chunky hammer. This thing is long and narrow, allowing good visibility to the workpiece, and clearance for tongs and tooling.
The cross pein hammers I have all were "born" with a very narrow pein. To dress them to a pein of the width of this hammer you would end up with a hammer that is very fat right behind the edge, obscuring any view of the workpiece.
I like the way this hammer works and handles, and feel that I won't be reaching for any other hammers to do the lion's share of my forging. Part of the way this hammer handles is hard for me to verbalize, except to say I like it a lot.
"Try it you'll like it!"
Thank you Tai! I wish you luck in this venture.
Alden
 
Thanks Alden.

That's kind of the way it was for me too. I saw some similar hammers being used by the "Santa Clara del Cobre" Mexican copper smiths and was amazed at what they were doing with them. Once I tried it myself, it became my favorite style of hammer and I do the bulk of my forging with it. They were using the corners of the face to get into tight spots and do all kinds of neat stuff... plus lots of other cool techniques I saw on a video one of the local art professors shot while he was down there. The U.S.A. coppersmiths will also be happy to see this style of hammer being made here,... although this first one is probably a bit heavy for most of this type of work.

It's also similar to some of the Japanese style forging hammers.

Mexican copper work:

P9210199%20(Large).preview.JPG


santa-clara-metal-work.jpg


small_vase.jpg
 
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